Fuming

[Tiddlypom]

I absolutely fail to understand why people who have some understanding of horses contact the RSPCA by default with horse Welfare issues when World Horse Welfare and the British Horse Society have a far better in depth understanding of horses and have a nationwide coverage of inspectors?

OP had previously reported the pony to the WHW. They aren't being vilified on this thread, bur the RSPCA are :confused3:?

OP was clearly upset and worried about the pony, but I for one couldn't understand why she didn't take water to it when it had been without for days. It subsequently became clear that there have been on going concerns about the pony, and the OP has helped it in the past.

 

[Magicmadge]

As above I had watered the pony in my buckets leaving its own flat squashed so I could see if anyone had bothered . Thank you for your comments in support . I will be keeping an eye on pony as are others now but I would now be inclined to think twice before posting on here in future. Whf have been out several times called by me and others I now understand. I called rspca on a Sunday at 10 am as previously said answerphone at weekends with other agencies (whom I called Monday) by which time his own buckets were filled. Next now in the coming months will be no feed or hay I suspect . Its very sad but short of feeding him myself and risking abuse from (owners) !!!!! All I can do is keep calling agencies with the exception of rspca of course.

 

[Equi]

So did you walk away without leaving any water for the horse yourself? I'm going to guess you did and thought by ringing someone else, that dissolved you of any obligation what so ever, yet you knew, as you say, for a fact, it's not had any water for three days. Shame on you. Why didn't you take the initiative and do something for this poor animal??

Fuming? So am I.

This comment is ridiculous. If they gave it water, then the RSPCA came, they would see it had water and thats case closed. Shame on you for trying to make someone who has at least had the courage to CALL someone feel bad.

 

[YorksG]

OP had previously reported the pony to the WHW. They aren't being vilified on this thread, bur the RSPCA are :confused3:?

OP was clearly upset and worried about the pony, but I for one couldn't understand why she didn't take water to it when it had been without for days. It subsequently became clear that there have been on going concerns about the pony, and the OP has helped it in the past.

The reaction to the RSPCA, was presumably as a result of the callhandler apparently using a script to bat the problem away. The rude comments aimed at the OP were uncalled for IMO as was the attempted mud slinging at other charities and aspertions being cast about their use of funds. If the RSPCA do not feel qualified to deal with large animals, then I think they should make that clear to the public who donate to their rather large funds.

 

[Goldenstar]

As a former welfare officer I can tell you dealing with tethered horses is a complete nightmare .

 

[ester]

I am not surprised GS, how do you prove other than skin pinching whether such a horse has been brought water or not. A squashed empty water bucket doesn't mean it hasn't been watered in other ways?

 

[honetpot]

Welfare law is a tangle and no one wants to pick up the tab,
https://www.facebook.com/hopeforhor...5018828693901/566876500174797/?type=3&theatre
I heard a statistic that 3,000 dogs were PTS last year
,https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/news-e...-heartlessly-abandoned-their-dogs-in-one-year
at a relatively small cost, when its costs £200 to have an equine disposed of and that's having them shot after you have done all the paperwork and nobody claims them you can understand why no one wants to take responsibility.
We need to apply pressure to get the mess sorted, there are so many of this years cast off for sale on FB for £50 or for free, and winter has not even started.
https://www.facebook.com/hopeforhorsesuk/?fref=nf
I just want the RSPCA to do something positive rather than spend £300000 on lawyers, on a speculative prosecution.
I have phoned the RSPCA and the WWF for help, and got no practical support.
If the pony gets loose and ends up on someone land at least they can serve an abandonment notice and have the right to dispose of it after 14 days, tethered and you have to prove abandonment.

 

[Goldenstar]

I am not surprised GS, how do you prove other than skin pinching whether such a horse has been brought water or not. A squashed empty water bucket doesn't mean it hasn't been watered in other ways?

When it's swaying and you get a vet .
Pinch testing is a easy test for people to use on their own horses but it would not stand up in court you need more concrete evidence of neglect .
Unfortunately a horse have a miserable unfullilled life clinging to existence to not enough .
Many people will be shocked how bad a horse has to before it can be removed with out the owners permission .
It's always worth remembering that many many welfare problems are solved by local people dealing with problems on their patch everyday ordinary people are doing this.
You don't always have to get an 'organiseation ' to deal with stuff .
I find tethering difficult to cope with while I accept that horses can be 'well tethered ' and have their needs well met in that type of system too often it's a miserable cold or hot existence .
On balance I would ban it except under veterinary supervision .

 

[ester]

hmm that was sort of what I thought, once it is pretty sick! Partly because if you pinch test mine you'd think him pretty constantly dehydrated, he isn't

 

[tristar]

i think no horse should be tethered, at all ever, left unattended.

if i was there i would get the carving knife out of the kitchen, cut it free offer it water, and bring it home, and stick two fingers up to all the moaners, ditherers, owners, groaners and generally moronic lifeforms that stand by and watch animals suffer miserable lingering deaths and lives, and i am not referring to op here in any way, but while all this is going on the pony is going through hell probably lots of other people know and just pass on by.

i`ve always pondered on why governments take absolutely no responsibility for animal welfare, they can hardly be unaware of the shocking and grand scale of the animal misery.

 

[Goldenstar]

i think no horse should be tethered, at all ever, left unattended.

if i was there i would get the carving knife out of the kitchen, cut it free offer it water, and bring it home, and stick two fingers up to all the moaners, ditherers, owners, groaners and generally moronic lifeforms that stand by and watch animals suffer miserable lingering deaths and lives, and i am not referring to op here in any way, but while all this is going on the pony is going through hell probably lots of other people know and just pass on by.

i`ve always pondered on why governments take absolutely no responsibility for animal welfare, they can hardly be unaware of the shocking and grand scale of the animal misery.

Easy to type less easy to do .
As a welfare officer I saw horses on every trip out that were have pointless miserable lives .
But cut a tether and let it go , no I never did why because it's a horse and a loose horse running about in an urban area risking the lives of people just driving about living their lives call me a ditherer if you like but you just can't do it .
Take it home great idea there are hundreds of them were would you have had me put them .
In fact in many cases getting it home would be a task in its self most of these horses are not easy to handle many don't even lead well .
Its very easy to get on your high horse in your ivory tower not so easy to deal with on a wet Thursday with a horse in an okish condition but no owner and finding owners of tethered horses is not easy so there you with a poor little mite on a chain and another twenty round and about no reason in law to remove .
Righteous indignation does them no good at all .
So what do you do you write notes to let owners know someone's been about attach put them in plastic bags attach them to the chains . You make notes about which horses are were so you can see if they are being moved.
You ask about the shops and pubs to try to get word out their being watched .
And then you go home .

 

[rascal]

I dont agree with tethering either, but if you go around cutting horses free, they will end up on a road dead. Like the one near our house.
OP was doing her best why are people giving her grief for a horse that she is not responsible for?????

 

[VikingSong]

I dont agree with tethering either, but if you go around cutting horses free, they will end up on a road dead. Like the one near our house.
OP was doing her best why are people giving her grief for a horse that she is not responsible for?????

Because several people on this forum have a bloated opinion of their own self importance as well as anger issues. I agree with you. The unprovoked attacks towards the OP are unnecessary.

 

[Kaylum]

Easy to type less easy to do .
As a welfare officer I saw horses on every trip out that were have pointless miserable lives .
But cut a tether and let it go , no I never did why because it's a horse and a loose horse running about in an urban area risking the lives of people just driving about living their lives call me a ditherer if you like but you just can't do it .
Take it home great idea there are hundreds of them were would you have had me put them .
In fact in many cases getting it home would be a task in its self most of these horses are not easy to handle many don't even lead well .
Its very easy to get on your high horse in your ivory tower not so easy to deal with on a wet Thursday with a horse in an okish condition but no owner and finding owners of tethered horses is not easy so there you with a poor little mite on a chain and another twenty round and about no reason in law to remove .
Righteous indignation does them no good at all .
So what do you do you write notes to let owners know someone's been about attach put them in plastic bags attach them to the chains . You make notes about which horses are were so you can see if they are being moved.
You ask about the shops and pubs to try to get word out their being watched .
And then you go home .

Can see its an extremely stressful job and there was one running loose on the road a few years back with her foal she was like that for 3 days the police couldn't catch her and they phoned the rescue and it took them lots of people and a good few hours to herd them into a horse box. The affects of that have made the mare extremely nervous and she just about after lets them touch her with clicker training.

 

[pansymouse]

Actually tethering is perfectly safe if the horse is checked regularly - I kept my first pony tethered on the village green for many years as a child and she was always well looked after and in good health.

 

[ycbm]

Actually tethering is perfectly safe if the horse is checked regularly - I kept my first pony tethered on the village green for many years as a child and she was always well looked after and in good health.

It may be safe and healthy if done properly but the idea to me of keeping a horse living on a leash is abhorrent, sorry

Let's be honest. It breaches the requirements of the animal welfare laws, and the only reason it was exempted is so as not to upset the Traveller population.

People now routinely corral horses when they stay overnight at events with an electric fence pen and a battery energizer. I see no reason why it should be legal to tether a horse.

 

[LinzyD]

To Chillipup

You say that other welfare charities should 'put their money where their mouth is' and bring prosecutions. I'm afraid it's not that simple. Most of the smaller charities, and some large ones, run a very tight ship financially, are heavily dependent on volunteers and goodwill, and simply do not have the financial means to bring about costly prosecutions. In fact some have an explicit policy of not prosecuting because they see it as a wrongful use of donor and sponsor funds. The reality is that a prosecution costs thousands of pounds, and even if it is successful there is next to no chance of the charity ever recouping its costs. The sort of people who are guilty are not the sort who are going to cough up whatever costs/fine have been awarded - chances are that they get to pay it off at a pound a week or something. The prosecuting charity has to take the view that the cost of a case is an unrecoverable expense no matter what the outcome. Now weigh up what you would do with every £10K of your funds if you were the CEO of a welfare charity - feed ten horses for a year, or throw it in to a black hole towards prosecuting one person. The immediate demands of feeding, housing, and providing veterinary care for horses in need are always going to take priority and while there is literally no end, no limit to the number of animals in need, there simply is no money available for prosecutions. There is also the question of responsibility and accountability to donors. Most donors respond to appeals that are centred around the animals themselves - if you ask the general public to donate towards the costs of a legal case it just doesn't get the same level of response - and donors are aggrieved if their money is seen to be lining the pockets of expensive lawyers. It's a criticism that is often levelled at the RSPCA. I'm not saying right or wrong, just that the charities are accountable and have to use funds for the intended purpose.

It is the same matter of prioritisation of funds regarding the use of volunteers. Lower staffing costs = more money for direct welfare. Most organisations use a mixture of paid staff and volunteers in order to provide coverage within a tight budget.

I agree that none of this is ideal. In an ideal world volunteers would be paid and no-one would be able to escape prosecution, but it's not an ideal world. The charities are doing what they can with the means they have. It is up to central government to fund and empower a single agency to bring about effective prosecutions for contravention of its animal welfare laws.

Chillipup, we are fundamentally all on the same side here, give or take the nuances, so there is no need for aggression towards a fellow member of HHO.

 

[tristar]

the very fact that op is fuming shows they have some compassion, cannot go on by without doing something about the situation,well done op.

to think anyone is suggesting setting free horses is just brainless, and to talk of being on a high horse or in an ivory tower suggests detachment, i am always motivated to act when confronted with a welfare situation, the last horse we reported was without food or water for 24 hours, tied to a trailer, and tangled the rope round the hitch so could it hardly move, it was standing on newly stoned yarding could not move or lie down, and as far as i know horses die very quickly from lack of water, no doubt someone will inform us of how long a horse can last without water, the same horse was taken on the road, shod and driven to a sulky almost daily, it was only a yearling.

we are raising money to help animal charities after first hand experience of seeing them at work, and will be aiding a donkey charity by providing grazing to rescued donkeys.

yes its little enough but i hope other people will feel they can act and not be so scared of the consequences, and act before its too late.

LinzyD has it right saying the government should act to enforce animal welfare, legislation, as there are clear minimum welfare standards in law as we write.

pandering to the travellers should be replaced by education and the banning of tethering, any horse or pony can panic forget its tied and get a rope round its leg, or be attacked by dogs when it would have no chance, and mares infoal well you cold just go on and on.....