Future for a bolter?

I'm afraid I'm another who would have him shot (or PTS, your choice obviously).

Fruddy- I appreciate what you're saying, BUT. It's not always that easy- very few people want companions in the current economic climate- people can barely afford the horses they've already got. If he's dangerous on the ground, he's not really suitable, adn I totally understand OPs worries over someone 'having a go'. I wouldn't sell or loan any of mine as a companion. I appreciate there are genuine people out there to take them on, and who would love them forever, but IMO that's a risk I couldn't take.

the horse is dangerous, you've done all you can adn more, and I don' think anyone should blame you if you said 'enough'.

Best of luck in a horrid decision, and I hope your back is soon fit and functional.
 
It sounds like the worst case scenario ever!
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But I know if he were my horse and i were in your shoes, no matter how bad he got I couldn't even think of having him PTS.

I know this is probably ridiculous in the eyes of some, but have you tried contacting pat parelli?
http://www.parelli.com/content.faces
Have a look at that link, I am sure he can get him back on track...or at least have a go! I think you would regret it soo much if you had him destroyed and then heard stories of horses worse (If possibe) that he has made 100% rideable again. If he cant, then i dont think anyone else can.

IMO having him PTS would be complety out of the question!...I know ALOT of people are going to tell me to wise-up, Safety first etc etc...but the end of the day, if a human being is unpredictable (physicopath r watevr) do we just have them 'shot before he kills someone'?

you are obviously a competent rider but He must be trying to tell you that he just wasnt meant to be riden...I would have him out full time with a herd of retired horses-that way you know nobody is just going to pull him out of the field to have a ride. I know you say he is spooky but he will settle down when he gets to know the other horses and will be soo happy just doing what horses so best!
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Really Hope it all works out for you. Its great to see you've stuck by him & obv have much love for him to have went through so much & got to this stage without just saying 'F**k it, have him PTS.

Best of luck & keep us posted what ever you decide!
xxx
 
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Is this really reason enough for anotherwise healthy horse to be destroyed????

He's obviously dangerous when ridden but surely, if he is healthy and happy in other ways, he has a right to life???

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I am soo glad to see someone else with me on this one!!!!!
 
Well I would always err on the side of if the horse is dangerous- to this extent, that I would shoot it, life is too short and precious to risk injury or worse on a horse with a significant history. I was in a similar ish situation with a 4yo years ago, and both myself and my vet agreed that the best option was to pts - and that is what we did.
 
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He must be trying to tell you that he just wasnt meant to be riden...

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I am sorry but WHAT?
I'm afraid I am going to be one of the ones that says wise up and get real to you. If this horse is loaned as a companion there is no guarantee that he will not be ridden in the future & really hurt someone (The OP knows this and has already stated it isn't really an option).

If a human is being unpredictable we lock them up FGS! Would you do that to a horse? No. So what are the other options? I do agree that full and thorough medical checks might be a next step (if not already done) but Parelli???? This horse bolts. No amount of carrot sticking and exercise ball rolling is going to solve that.

Also - no-one is saying 'F*ck it, let's have him put to sleep' we are actually trying to ensure that the OP makes the right decision and no-one gets hurt.

So yes. Wise up!

Edited to add: I apologise to 1brokenback if my above post was insensitive - was a side track rant and not directed at you.
 
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Is this really reason enough for anotherwise healthy horse to be destroyed????

He's obviously dangerous when ridden but surely, if he is healthy and happy in other ways, he has a right to life???

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I am soo glad to see someone else with me on this one!!!!!

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She got the horse to ride, not as a long term companion and a continuous drain on money. If she can't keep the horse herself, as many people and Op has said if it goes out someone may 'have a go' and who knows what could happen!!

In my opinion, having tried everything, I think you know what you are going to do. It is a crying shame, but your life is more important, as is the pillock who tries to get on him if you made him a companion. So sorry for your situation.
 
Am going to have to agree with Mayflower. Normally I'm all for giving a horse a chance, especially a relatively young one, but not this time.

So what happens if you do all the parelli/natural horsemanship or whatever and decide he's a changed horse (bearing in mind OP has already started him again from scratch once and thought he had changed!!!), start riding him again and he does it again?

For me its a lot like the debate over the horse who went over backwards on someone (from a thread last week).... once you have established its a habit, the horse is too dangerous to be ridden again. Ever.
 
Oh my god. Please please dont get on this horse again whatever you do with him.

And I really dont think you should condemn yourself to paying out for him as an unridden field ornament for the rest of his life (which speaking as the owner of a 31 year old could be a looooong time).

Please get rid of him (whatever way you choose) and get yourself a nice safe horse who wont try to kill you... owning this horse should not ruin your life, and if you try to ride him again you could end up seriously disabled if you fell in the wrong way
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I am so sorry to hear about your injuries and I can understand why you wouldn't want to ride him again! All I would say is if he's not doing it all the time something must set him off. Selling him would be a problem for the reasons you said but what about sending him to a sympathetic professional for their opinion before making the decision to PTS?

Do you know much about what he did before you got him?

Hope you are soon feeling better.
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...if a human being is unpredictable (physicopath r watevr) do we just have them 'shot before he kills someone'?

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No; we lock them away for a very long term so they can't hurt anyone. Impossible for a horse obviously. And let's face it, there are some humans who are so totally screwed up mentally they can never be put right, or are seriously, fatally disabled and have gone to court for the right to die with dignity, but our society won't allow euthanasia under any circumstances, more's the pity.

OK this is whole different debate, but you get where I'm coming from.

OP, my heart goes out to you.
 
What do you do when he bolts? What is your reaction?

Do you try to stop him physically, by seat and reins?

Or do you use your voice, ease the contact, stroke his neck and try to calm him?
 
Put the horse to sleep. No matter who you loan it to as a companion (and I think that is a bad idea anyway after he double barrelled you when leading him) someone will eventually get back on board. It could be a child, and they could be seriously injured. If your instructor has seen the horse behave in this way and her feeling is PTS as well, then I think that is the route you should go.

We are only going on what you have told us, and it sounds absolutely horrific. There is no rhyme or reason to it. And even if the horse does have kissing spines (as previous poster said) that is not a good enough reason for bolting so many times and double barrelling when being lead.

For the sake of your horse, have him put down.

I had a horse that used to bolt - no injury, just napping. So not even proper bolting. Half way round a cross country course with a pro rider, it used to take off back to the lorry. I bought the horse not knowing this, and it used to bolt back to the stable halfway through a lesson, even did it entering the ring in a dressage test once. But at least this one stoppd at gate. I can't imagine how terrifying it is to know that once the horse starts off you are going to be seriously damaged.

If the horse is PTS then you can stop worrying about how you are going to deal with the situation and what will happen to the horse (and potential injuries to other people) in the future.

Best of luck and don't be upset by the people who are insisting that you should pass him on where he will eventually end up with an unsuspecting person who will get on and be badly injured. No one wants to ride a bolter and particularly if they are not aware that he is one. I hope those people who are saying it is wrong to have him PTS don't end up by one day getting on a horse like this without realising its history - it could so easily happen.
 
I personally would be inclined to go with the scintigraphy to investigate possible pain spots. The unpredictability of this suggests something is physically wrong - so not just a behaviour thing. I had a 4 year old I could not break in, he was so calm so kind and so responsive but he was given to bolts - and did them in the indoor school, I was thrown into walls, girders and the floor at speed and with great force. And then exactly the same - he would just be really quiet and calm. No triggers, no physical reason for the bolting. In the end we had him PTS and had a post mortum - he had a large brain tumour.

Another friend has a horse which would do something similar and hers has been found to have serious kissing spines.

The vets need to investigate further - with two specific aims - the back and the brain - I would personally not accept the - we can find nothing wrong - or it is behavioural, insist on a second opinion and a referal to a top investigative practice.
 
Reading some of these posts, it is totally unreal. I am positive most of you have never sat on a horse which is properly bolting. It is not the same as ponies taking off together in a field and not being able to stop - it is completely different!
 
QR - I've read some of the posts, my instinct is to agree with FMM... a horse that is properly bolting is completely different to a horse that is taking off in the field and should be handled differently BUT to be fair, if you have never sat a horse that is 'running blind' you can't know how truly dangerous (and terrifiying) it is.

I've sat on one twice - lovely young welsh D but terrified of being ridden. I tried to rebreak him with the help of my boss but despite months of ground work, every time I tried to mount in the arena he would take off and no-one on the ground could hold him. The first time I threw myself off him and escaped with a few bruises, the second time he threw me and I, like the OP, broke my back. I also lost all my confidence and it has taken my over 2 years to get anything like my nerve back. Even now when I go to get on an unknown youngster, I can feel my heart rate going up and I am NOT the rider I was before in terms of nerve and I never will be.

My advice with this horse is also PTS... the trouble is with a nice looking horse that appears sensible 90% of the time, the temptation is for young gung-ho riders to think "oh, I can be the one to fix him" - see replies above LOL
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- and then another person will most likely get injured. I say this because this is what I did with this Welsh D. He had done the same at the last place where they backed him but I thought I would be able to turn him around with patience and kindness...
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Could you, even if you had his back done, spoke to vet, investigations etc ever, honestly, ask someone else to ride him again knowing what you know?

{HUGS} to you, you are very brave. I hope it all works out and PM if you wanna chat cos I have been in your shoes. x x
 
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Is this really reason enough for anotherwise healthy horse to be destroyed????

He's obviously dangerous when ridden but surely, if he is healthy and happy in other ways, he has a right to life???

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I am soo glad to see someone else with me on this one!!!!!

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Unless the OP is able to guarantee the horse a home in a field for life, the only responsible thing to do is to have the horse PTS.

The trouble with your argument of 'just don't ride him' is that horses like this with serious behavioural problems can end up being passed from pillar to post and before you know it some unsuspecting family gets a bargain in the sales, their child hops on and then there is potentially a very serious accident
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Very sad indeed, however it sounds as though this horse has been lucky to have a wonderful patient and kind owner that has explored every avenue for it.
 
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She's got to have some time off due to lameness but after it if the behavior problem is still there she's going to be a brood mare,

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You're going to breed from a mare you know to have behavioural issues?!?!?!?!
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Does he make any attempt to stop at the arena fence? Does he attempt to jump it? Or does he just run blindly through it? Is it post and rail?

If he is genuinely running blindly through a 4ft post and rail arena fence then I am sorry but I would pts as to me this is not normal. Most horses, will try to either try to jump the fence or try to stop, and then momentum takes them through.

One of my oldies sounds very similar. He regularly took off as a youngster, and I was advised to pts.

I then found an insructor who took a very different attitude and specialised in difficult horses. I was told to drop the contact when he bolted, stroke his neck and use a very calm voice. This was done initially in a large field where I had time to calm him before we got to a fence. Plus I could steer him away from the fences as I had more time. I found that once i did this he stopped within a few strides. It took a lot of guts on my part to drop all contact but the result was amazing.

Basically, any time he was put under pressure he would panic and go! If i tried to stop him by pulling on the reins, the most obvious move, he would panic more.

I also hired an indoor school with walls from floor to ceiling so he could not jump out!

It took time and perseverence but he came good and learnt to totally trust me.

All I am offering here is a different slant on things. Maybe a different approach.

With my horse it was a case of sort out the problem or pts. I would never have passed him on. It was last resort time but I had never been hurt as you have and he would never have run blindly through a fence or wall although he was capable of running into it whilst trying to stop! Hence to me that would be the crucial factor. If your horse is making no attempt to stop or to jump the fence then he has a bigger problem and I would pts.
 
QR - I haven't read all the replies but my reaction to your original post was 'have him pts'. I'm terribly sorry to hear about your broken back but next time it could be even worse. It's many years since I was last bolted with but it is the most terrifying experience, indoors or out, and it sounds as though you are experienced enough to know if it's a pain reaction that can be dealt with or not.

I agree with lzt that the responsible course of action, for your sake and for the sake of anyone else who might unwittingly come to own this horse, is to have him pts.

Whatever you decide, good luck.
 
There is nothing more frightening than a horse properly bolting, I've only been there a handful of times & I'm always a wobbling wreck after because of the "what if......" It sounds like the injuries you have are both very serious and could if it were to happen again put you in a wheelchair or coffin.

You know this horse & only you understand whether it wants to hurt you or look after you. When Dolls kicked me in my head I had a decision to make. Was it a one off and ultimately she wasn't a dangerous horse, or did she mean to get me and could she do it to someone else? Knowing her as I do, I knew it was the former. However I could never keep a horse for the sake of it being a dangerous pet. -How are you affording to live if you keep being injured? You have to think of yourself, next time you may not be so lucky.
 
Yep, she just has issues with a rider, there's nothing wrong with her behavior in any other respect. Her vice is too consistent to be caused by brain problems. I'm not soft and if it wasn't a suitable job for her she'd be shot if I can't ride her. Not to breed from her when it would give her a purpose and make some good foals, and to have her destroyed would be criminal and a real waste IMO.
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QR-Having been in this situation myself and luckily I escaped with only a broken arm. I would say have him pts
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I have my mare pts and she was a danger and I really think she would of ended up killing someone.
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Jesus wise up!!!! a humans life is more important than a horses and in this instance the owner has done every thing to make sure there is no physical reason for his behaviour.
If he was mine I would PTS rather than risk someone being killed
 
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I've got a horse that bolts totally out of the rider's control but she at least looks out for herself and respects the arena fence as a boundary and stays within it.

She's got to have some time off due to lameness but after it if the behavior problem is still there she's going to be a brood mare, if she were a gelding she would be pts.

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Sorry, KVS, but I can't believe anyone would breed from a mare who is too dangerous to ride herself.
Do you want a replica mini-bolter?
S
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There is a HUGE differnce between horses "taking off" like dozziesummy is describing (where they are still with it enough to jump the fence/ be turned ect) and a horse who is truely bolting blind. It sounds very much like OP horses is bolting blind which leaves him not only a danger to himself but to anybody or anything around him.

I agree there is probably a reason behind it, whether it physical or just mental but even if the OP goes down the route of finding that problem (uninsured and therefore at great cost) and finding a way to fix it, there is no guaruntee this isnt now learned behaviour- and the only way to find that out is when he does it again- next time the OP might not be around to tell us her story.....!
 

If I was in the same position, if I wasn't able to keep as a pet or able to send to a horse rescue/retirement home I'd PTS as will. You could of been paralysed.
 
Well first off all I'm so sorry that you are in this terrible predicament and I wish you a full recovery (((hugs))).

From your post you seem to have given this horse a chance as well as your experience and the necessary health checks that you have carried out and given him some time off, to which if I was you, my only last option would be some kind of horse security but probably after a really good think about the possible dangers that could arise from everyday things like leading him about, being stabled, farrier etc and all the usual things that these places have to do with the rest horses, you need to ask yourself would be still be a danger to himself and the people handling him?

and I think you already know the answer to that question. Yes it is a shame but if this horse has got some kind of deep problem that is not obvious or will never be detected by a professional, like someone said a brain tumour etc then having him PTS would be the kindest thing to do for the horse as well as the a sensible thing to do, I would feel dreadful if I'd put someone else in your position, injured, despite if they said it will be ok, well take care of him etc because only you know your horse and what he is capable off.

I do hope there is an answer apart from having him PTS I really do, but would a horse shelter/charity etc want to take him? I think your best talking to them and getting a feel for what they suggest along with your vet and having a really good talk to them. Then make your decision.
 
My concern after all the tests you have done would be that he has something neurologically wrong with him, which could deteriorate regardless of what you do with him particularly as you say he is sweet most of the time.

As riding is out of the question, if you are not happy to give him a home as a lawnmower for life and accept the potential risks, PTS would be the only option for me. Passing him on for whatever reason would not be safe.
 
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