Future for a bolter?

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I've got a horse that bolts totally out of the rider's control but she at least looks out for herself and respects the arena fence as a boundary and stays within it.

She's got to have some time off due to lameness but after it if the behavior problem is still there she's going to be a brood mare, if she were a gelding she would be pts.

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Sorry, KVS, but I can't believe anyone would breed from a mare who is too dangerous to ride herself.
Do you want a replica mini-bolter?
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Thank you Baublezebub, that was exactly my point. Who knows... in 10 odd years time we might be seeing this post again
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you are obviously a competent rider but He must be trying to tell you that he just wasnt meant to be riden...I would have him out full time with a herd of retired horses-that way you know nobody is just going to pull him out of the field to have a ride. I know you say he is spooky but he will settle down when he gets to know the other horses and will be soo happy just doing what horses so best!


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thats all very well and good if the horse is a saint on the ground and you have your own land to keep it on but this horse has double barrelled its owner breaking her collar bone whilst being led, next time it could be her head.
 
How awful for you. I agree with the comments of PTS , but I have to say I do admire oyu for your sheer determination for getting back on after the previous injuries.

I considered myself a competent rider, but I admit I am a bit of a chicken too!

My horse and I don't click as horse and rider and he tries to run in the arena and play up I have come off twice and stayed on 3 times, but al;though I was not injured I just missed landing on the wooden fence surrrounding the arena, and now I don't want to ride him at all-- see chicken arn't I. I have forced myself to hack him out and he is great but I hate taking him in the arena. I have been told that I am not firm enough with him so maybe this is the problem. anyway you have done all you can and given him every chance, your a better rider than me for getting back on well done! hope your back recovers soon, good luck
 
I think if you really have tried to sort any pain he might be in then your only option really is to have the horse PTS.
But I think you really need to make sure that the horse has had any xrays, etc and two opinions from vets, phyiso's, saddlers so you can be really sure it is not pain related.

It does sound to me like he is in some sort of pain or has a bit of a mental problem.
I hope you get it sorted for him if that is possible.

also don't know if you have already tried this but have you thought about putting him on a course of bute to see if that helps at all?, clutching at straws
 
very sad but if there is nothing phsical causing this behavious the only option imho is pts-esp as it sounds like he is getting worse and has no self preservation-most horses wont bolt through fencing!
he could kill you or someone else, it sounds like he wouldnt be suitable for a companion as he has kicked you whilst leading plus he is big and spooky
poor ned and poor you, it must be horrid to be in this situation
 
Quick quesiton: has he had a scan of his head? Reason I ask is that I used to ride a gorgeous horse many years ago in the States. Lovely. Beautiful. Smooth to ride. Then suddenly blow up and bolt and jump anything (inclduing a fifteen foot wide ditch sideways onto a road) for no apparent reason. I came off her in the arena time after time. She bucked, spun, cat leapt. In the end she was PTS as even I wouldn't get on her again, and the cowboys wouldn't go near her. The autopsy showed a brain tumour. I don't remember the technicalities, but the general gist was the tumour was pressing on something and that resulted in her behaviour changes, which grew worse in the short time we had her. Please, as others have said, put this poor horse to sleep because he is going to kill himself one day; or if finances allow, have him scanned for a tumour. Many hugs, C.x
 
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Sorry, KVS, but I can't believe anyone would breed from a mare who is too dangerous to ride herself.
Do you want a replica mini-bolter?
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No need to apologise, point taken. I've kind of already answered this. No I certainly do not want a mini bolter I don't think I have reason to believe I'd get one. May I ask what makes you think her behavioral problem is hereditary? The vets and people who have worked with her do not think it is.
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I'd have her PTS. I know it's all very well saying this when it's someone elses horse, but she does not know she's dead! She's presumably had a quite short but happy life, better to end it without suffering than risk passing her on, and her ending up in the wrong hands and hurting herself or someone else. Aside from obviously causing you some serious damage, at some point she's going to do herself some serious harm too. Even if she's only kicked you once on the ground it sounds like she meant it, and I don't think I'd ever trust her again.
 
Sad as it is, you know the answer. This horse is not only a bolter but is totally unpredictable in hand aswell, therefore couldn't even be kept as a companion horse. If all physical tests are proving inconclusive then my thoughts are the same as some others on here, that there is a neurological problem here. You can go down the route to actually find out what that neurological issue is, it will cost and generally once you have found out, there is little that can be done, and the end result is the same.

There is no future for this horse, plain and simple; certainly not in the hands of another person. If you choose to keep the horse then that is your prerogative, but you must make sure that you are the only one to handle him because should he injure another person, I'm sure you wouldn't want that on your conscience.

I'm very sorry and I do feel for you.
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OP - I hope you have been able to differentiate between those on here who know what they are talking about, and those who clearly have no clue.
 
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CVSHotshot - I do hope that people will look at your signature photo, and evaluate your advice accordingly.
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THanks Baublezebub, I take that as a complement (I hope it was meant as one lol)

Mayflower, your comments about my post were incredibly ridiculous I must say! You obviously dont have the first clue about parelli! They are experts & have worked with international horses & riders...So 'Carrot sticking and exercise ball rolling' is obviously working! If you actually took the time to research before you make stupid statements you would realise they are all about understanding the horse, If you notice, no-one actually understands why he does it! So once they establish why the horse bolts you can begin to find a solution for the problem. Really I shud be telling YOU to 'wise up' & if you call yourself a true HorseWoman you would go to the ends of the earth before you have him PTS & try parelli no matter how silly you think it is! & might i add just because he is spooky isnt a good enough reason not to turn him out!

& Diamonddogs I wasnt suggesting he should be locked up, i said he shud be put out with retired horses, so what ever idiot thinks theyr good enough to take him on & have a go & gets injured, deserves what they get...it would be entirely theyr own fault for being so stupid!

Seriously! I wish people would take more time to read before they dive in gunsblazing!
 
[quote i said he shud be put out with retired horses, so what ever idiot thinks theyr good enough to take him on & have a go & gets injured, deserves what they get...it would be entirely theyr own fault for being so stupid!



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This is an outrageously inrresponsible attitude and exactly what the OP has specifically expressed she will avoid.

If the horse has a brain tumour, Pat Parelli will not be able to cure it - its not just the rider that can get hurt but other innocent parties as well, such as the small child sitting in the back of the car that a horse bolted straight into - this happened near here recently and the horse was found to have a brain tumour.
 
I'm sorry? Guns blazing? Not at all, I'm just concurring with what the majority of sensible, caring and right thinking people on this forum and others are saying, having carefully read each and every comment. And I'm sure I never suggested that he be locked up! It was simply a comparison to what society does to humans with similar issues. In the absence of the option for euthanasia, this is the only option available to us.

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i said he shud be put out with retired horses, so what ever idiot thinks theyr good enough to take him on & have a go & gets injured, deserves what they get...it would be entirely theyr own fault for being so stupid!

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But the OP as the horse's owner would still be legally liable if this happened. And if she had to admit to the court she knew the horse was dangerous, they'd lock her up and chuck the key away!

Many have replied on this thread who clearly haven't read all posts thoroughly, as there's a lot of replies that imply that the OP is considering euthanasia just because she doesn't fancy riding the horse again.

IMHO this horse has no future. He's dangerous under saddle, he can't be trusted in hand, and it can only be a matter of time before he attacks another horse. What if he bolted somewhere where children were riding? The OP just never knows when he's going to lose it.

He's not getting any better, is likely to get worse, and he either has serious pain somewhere or has serious mental health issues, and it's my belief that he should be PTS with his loving owner with him in a place where he's happy and calm, rather than lying suffering somewhere smashed up and bleeding, possibly with a dead handler at the side of him.

Personally, I have no time for Parelli and those of his ilk (I don't include Kelly Marks and Monty Roberts in that group btw), but rest assured I'd get Paul McKenna to hypnotise him or ask Harry Potter to cast a spell if I thought it would do any good and I wasn't asking them to put themselves at risk.
 
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Sorry, KVS, but I can't believe anyone would breed from a mare who is too dangerous to ride herself.
Do you want a replica mini-bolter?
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No need to apologise, point taken. I've kind of already answered this. No I certainly do not want a mini bolter I don't think I have reason to believe I'd get one. May I ask what makes you think her behavioral problem is hereditary? The vets and people who have worked with her do not think it is.
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Experience tells me that difficult mares have difficult foals, and putting them to a good stallion doesn't usually fix it.
What do the vets believe cause your mare's behavioural issues?
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Why would you ride this horse in a snaffle?

Going through a fence is fairly extreme, but I don't know the circumstances and whether it tried to jump, went through it or a miscalculation when trying to pull up

I'd personally try with a barry gag (very harsh bit) and two reins. If he cannot does go through objects it might be time to call it a day (i.e. if you aimed him at some really solid and he runs into it)
 
QR , please ,please have him PTS , my daughter was nearly killed by being sold a dangerous horse (it was known to be dangerous by the seller ) .It used to change as if a switch had been turned on. She was dangerous to handle on the ground too.
She turned out to have severe neurological problems.
 
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CVSHotshot - I do hope that people will look at your signature photo, and evaluate your advice accordingly.
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THanks Baublezebub, I take that as a complement (I hope it was meant as one lol)

Mayflower, your comments about my post were incredibly ridiculous I must say! You obviously dont have the first clue about parelli! They are experts & have worked with international horses & riders...So 'Carrot sticking and exercise ball rolling' is obviously working! If you actually took the time to research before you make stupid statements you would realise they are all about understanding the horse, If you notice, no-one actually understands why he does it! So once they establish why the horse bolts you can begin to find a solution for the problem. Really I shud be telling YOU to 'wise up' & if you call yourself a true HorseWoman you would go to the ends of the earth before you have him PTS & try parelli no matter how silly you think it is! & might i add just because he is spooky isnt a good enough reason not to turn him out!

& Diamonddogs I wasnt suggesting he should be locked up, i said he shud be put out with retired horses, so what ever idiot thinks theyr good enough to take him on & have a go & gets injured, deserves what they get...it would be entirely theyr own fault for being so stupid!

Seriously! I wish people would take more time to read before they dive in gunsblazing!

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Actually I DO call myself a horsewoman and it is for this reason that I would have the horse PTS. I'm not going to make this argument about parelli because IMO it is not the answer here, however 'good' it has been for other horses.

Have you ever sat on a bolting horse? I hope you never have to as it is a terrifying experience.

This horse should be shot, plain and simple.
Or would you rather it killed someone?
 
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Experience tells me that difficult mares have difficult foals, and putting them to a good stallion doesn't usually fix it.

This is the odd part, this mare is not difficult, she's easy with one dangerous quirk.


What do the vets believe cause your mare's behavioural issues?
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They don't know but they think its learned behavior. They ruled out KS and they have ruled out brain tumours/trauma because the "bolting" isn't random enough, its too methodical. When it happens its always during the first few minutes of work. She doesn't do it in indoor arenas.
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She doesn't lose it, but she is afraid.

I like the bootcamp guy's theory the best, which is not to say its the right one, that she's had enough people fall off and jump off her, while possibly hanging on to her mouth, that this is what she's scared of, but she's making it happen. Vicious circle.

'Tis a mystery but she has good breeding and a kind temperament. Whatever's happened to her, its too dangerous to keep trying to get her over it. Fortunately there's another option for her.
 
So sorry to read this, but agree with all those who recommend PTS. I had a little TB mare out of racing who started to do this. She blind bolted with me twice, and by sheer luck I managed to alter direction enough (simultaneously using my weight and socking her in the teeth really hard) until I got her into a large circle and let her run out of steam. I was luckily in a large stubble field, but initially she'd been heading towards the motorway embankment, and with her history of running through fences, I knew unless I turned her, we were set to crash through the barrier and tumble down the slope the traffic. I have never been so scared in my life........
I kept her just as my pal eventually, until she started bolting every time she was turned out, and galloped until she either hit the fence or fell over it. For the last few days she was going so fast she had speedy cuts to both back legs.
I took her to the vet hospital to have her evaluated and they watched the videos of her being turned out and said the only alternative to euthanasing her was sedating her all the time, and even that might not work. Obviously I wasn't going to entertain a drugged horse, so she was PTS. I didn't get a pm done, as the insurance wouldn't pay out, and I couldn't afford it on top of all the other costs. And it wouldn't have saved her, even though I might have had peace of mind.
From all the things she did, too lengthy to go into here, it was as if her adrenaline trigger overloaded. Everytime she anticipated something, it was as if she couldn't contain herself, and exploded.
She was nine, and I felt as if I'd stolen her life, but there was no other sensible option. It's only when I look back now I can't believe I tried to keep her.
His problem will not improve, and sometimes no matter how you wish, you cannot change what has to be.
I'm feeling for you, and it's a hard enough decision without having to listen to the life at any cost idiots who have no real conception of your problem.
Be strong.
 
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Experience tells me that difficult mares have difficult foals, and putting them to a good stallion doesn't usually fix it.

This is the odd part, this mare is not difficult, she's easy with one dangerous quirk.


What do the vets believe cause your mare's behavioural issues?
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They don't know but they think its learned behavior. They ruled out KS and they have ruled out brain tumours/trauma because the "bolting" isn't random enough, its too methodical. When it happens its always during the first few minutes of work. She doesn't do it in indoor arenas.
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She doesn't lose it, but she is afraid.

I like the bootcamp guy's theory the best, which is not to say its the right one, that she's had enough people fall off and jump off her, while possibly hanging on to her mouth, that this is what she's scared of, but she's making it happen. Vicious circle.

'Tis a mystery but she has good breeding and a kind temperament. Whatever's happened to her, its too dangerous to keep trying to get her over it. Fortunately there's another option for her.

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If your vets don't know what is wrong with her, they can't be sure that she won't pass it on to her foals.
And your bootcamp theorist's views are no help - many people fall off many horses, and no doubt catch them in the mouth, but they don't turn into animals who are too dangerous to ride.
So she may have good breeding, but in my view she does not have 'kind temperament' in that I wouldn't want to ride an animal which bolts, and nor, obviously do you.
I only hope that you keep the foal for yourself and don't try to pass it on to an unsuspecting buyer, without at least telling them the mare was dangerously unrideable.
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I'm with the PTS posse on this. Your life is too important and passing her on to someone else even as a companion means there always a chance that she could end up with some unsuspecting buyer in the future.

I'm not convinced that breeding from her is a great idea either. I don't know what the probability is of her producing a 'mini bolter' but this seems like an expensive and impratical option, especially if she can be unpredicable from the ground. By the time you've paid stud fees and kept the new youngster for the 3-4 years until you can back and ride it you'll have spent WAY more than what it would cost to buy a new horse that's ridable now.
 
The horse double barrelled her after a couple of weeks box rest. I dont think that makes it totally unpredictable in hand. I think a horse kicking up its heels after box rest is quite predictable really! Not nice if you are in the way of course!

I also thought, why is it still in a snaffle?
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Just not sure if all avenues have been explored.
 
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The horse double barrelled her after a couple of weeks box rest. I dont think that makes it totally unpredictable in hand. I think a horse kicking up its heels after box rest is quite predictable really! Not nice if you are in the way of course!

I also thought, why is it still in a snaffle?
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Just not sure if all avenues have been explored.

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My then 2yr was sent off for colic surgery, then box rested on her own for a few months, led and grazed in hand twice a day.
She didn't lift a leg to anyone - all it takes is one kick, and you could be dead.
I agree with the many people who suggest that it could well be a brain tumour, and should be either turned away, and handled in such a way that no one is put at risk, or PTS.
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I also thought, why is it still in a snaffle?

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Because:

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...I then brought him back into work with my qualified instructor with lunging & longreining to work/trot work. We thought we had cracked it, he was going in a lovely outline, really using himself, soft and supple - he was being ridden approx 5x per wk, schooling, hacking and lunging...

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I'm with the PTS posse on this. Your life is too important and passing her on to someone else even as a companion means there always a chance that she could end up with some unsuspecting buyer in the future.

I'm not convinced that breeding from her is a great idea either....

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The OP's horse is a gelding, I was asked about my mare. Two different horses, just to clear up any confusion.
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OP sounds very sensible. Have any of those suggesting not to shoot it actually sat on a genuine bolter? As others have said it is terrifying.
PTS I'm afraid. You sound like a good rider and experienced horsewoman who has explored every avenue.
 
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The OP's horse is a gelding, I was asked about my mare. Two different horses, just to clear up any confusion.


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Sorry, I did notice that the sex of the horse kept changing depending which post I read but thought I was just getting confused because the thread was getting so long
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In that case, PTS the gelding.

Think twice about breeding the mare. Even if she is good to handle you can't be sure what her offspring will be like and there are enough non-bolting horses out there looking for a good home without breeding from one that you know does.
 
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CVSHotshot - I do hope that people will look at your signature photo, and evaluate your advice accordingly.
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THanks Baublezebub, I take that as a complement (I hope it was meant as one lol)


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i wouldn't think so, love....
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do you go to specsavers?
 
I'm sorry, I think you should PTS as well. You've certainly risked yourself enough and I, in your position, wouldn't dream of allowing anyone else on him. For a start he is so unpredictable there is no way of knowing if any treatment/therapy you (or someone else) tries is working until he bolts again... and if he DOES bolt again, someone could get killed. As others have said, it might not be the rider who dies, so it's no good letting some gung-ho idiot have a go because they think they're such hot sh:t on a horse.
 
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