Future for a bolter?

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In the natural sense I would be thinking Monty Roberts, Parelli, Maxwell and their associates and any of the other brands, I have no experience with nopethem but they claim to solve problem horses, and the actual high up people in these organisations (eg MR himself) might well be able to help

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I agree!
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but No doubt mayflower is now going to tell you to wise up!
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To the OP, personally I would have the horse PTS
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It sounds like you've exhausted all possibilities and tried your hardest for the horse. He is dangerous and really can't be passed on to anyone else as a companion or not. I doubt any horse therapy people would be able (or willing) to help on the basis that the behaviour is so sporadic and there is very little linking each outburst.

No bit will stop a bolting horse, as I'm sure you know a horse will bolt through any kind of pain or pressure you inflict on it.

I hope some of the responses on this forum have helped you in making the decision a little easier.
 
Very QR - with regards to position of riders...

As you know I am NO expert but this is a pic of a very famous rider at a demo I went to watch - I have cropped it so you can't tell who
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I also cropped the horse as it's not mine and I wouldn't post pics of someone elses without permission - but it was looking lovely
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Please no guessing etc as It wouldn't be very nice for the person.

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As you can see, sometimes a moment in time shot of position can be a bit misleading... I swear that this is a very famous person.

I only have headshots in my sig *phew* - only cos I wouldn't post Tara and my flat pics as we are still a long way from 'acceptable' lol.
 
To the OP -

I feel so sorry for you - it's a horrible situation.
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You seem so sensible and brave though and I'm sure you will make the right decision.

I have friends who had to have a horse put down because it became unmanageble and dangerous even inhand.
As others have suggested they found out it was a brain tumour.

I hope you work out what is best for you xx
 
OP please have him PTS, I know this will be so hard, i have been there and done it with a horse that I was begged to 'give a last chance to' by his owner. Two other experienced people had advised having this beautiful horse put down.
I gave him 6 months, and risked life and limb on many occasions. At times he could be the best horse ever, his canter was to die for, then he would stop dead, plant for Engalnd then throw everything he had at you. I was fortunate he was too slow in his movement to get me off, but climbing the school fence everyday was a nightmare. He hated my OH and would go out of his way to try to attack him, even when he was on his much bigger horse.

He was also difficult to handle, one day coming in from the field like a dope on a rope, the next flying past you and kicking out at your head. Sometime it would take an hour to bring him in on a lunge line. I have children, I had to think of them. They need their Mum in one piece. It also made me realise that this horse could not be sold on at any price.

This was a long time ago and it still breaks my heart, I often ask myself if I failed this poor animal, but in reality I know I didnt, I firmly believed that he had been abused in the past and he attacked before the human did, but he is much better off where he is, he can no longer hurt himself or anyone else.

I do hope you recover soon, but please do the right thing.

There will be another horse out there for you to love and who will love you back without attempting to kill you!
 
To the OP.....

I am so sorry for your situation; I dont honestly know what would be the best option, but I do have a little personal experience to draw on. My previous horse, Mickey, was a rescue case, and although we never knew exactly what had gone on in his past, we knew he had been very badly beaten and was terrified of men. It went against all our principles - I was only eleven, and had only had push button ponies prior to Mickey - and he was a 15 hand troubled horse - certainly no pony.
I never told my mum or anyone else what he did with me when I hacked him out alone, for I knew he'd be out of the yard before I could turn around if they knew. He used to bolt - one minute, we'd be plodding up the track, and the next, he'd leap forwards and be gone; all I could do was cling to his mane, for pulling on his mouth only made him go faster. He never seemed to care where he went or how he got there - he was running from something, though from what, I will never know. One day, he ran full pelt into a metal five bar gate; I have no idea how either of us stayed on our feet, but I do know that I was terrified of him, but more terrified of losing him if I ever let on what he was really like.
At Pony Club, he was almost as bad, although being within the confines of an arena meant I could control him a little better, although I sustained many a crushed knee where I had to fight to turn him against a wall to stop him. The other mums gave mine a real hard time, telling her that he was no horse for a girl, and that we'd never get to the bottom of him. We changed his bit, had him checked - but nothing seemed to help him. It seemed I had regained his trust in the stable, but I never really managed it under saddle. My instructor, who I love and respect one hell of a lot, called him 'mental Mickey', and was of the opinion that he should be put down before he killed either me, or himself.

We all knew, deep down, that something would have to give, but I loved him so much, like I had never loved another horse. I couldnt have sold him; he'd have been unsellable, for who would ever take on a confirmed bolter with no competition or veterinary history? And although both my parents could see the sense in having him PTS, he'd become my best friend - it would have destroyed me to destroy him. The decision was taken out of our hands, perhaps by Fate, perhaps by Mickey himself - he panicked on the road one day, and ended up in the ditch, and the next day he trotted up hopelessly lame. He'd strained his check ligament, and was prescribed nine months box rest. On the third month of his recuperation period, he dropped dead in his stable from a suspected heart attack.
This may seem to have little relevance; I just wanted to let you know how it was for me - knowing that I had to make a choice, yet frightened to do so. I was lucky that the choice was made for me, although at the time I was devastated. All I do know is that with hindsight, Mickey's death - no matter how it came about - was fortunate in many ways, although it sounds awful to put it like that. If you do decide to have your boy PTS, please do not feel you have failed him, or that you should be guilty. You will only be doing the responsible thing by him, and that, surely, is the mark of a truly good owner.

Hugs xx
 
You poor thing, I think its best all round if he's PTS.
My gosh there's a lot of arguments on this thread!
I'm not going to comment on any of that as I don't think its appropriate
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I dont think its fair on the horse to keep it alive, If its broken your
back I dont blame you for not wanting to get back on
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, its definitely not an easily solved problem by what you have said.
HUGS xx

Spark Elz, that made me cry.
xx
 
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Spark Elz, that made me cry.

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Me too; I still sob my heart out when I write about him
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It was over eight years ago, such a long time, but it still gets to me now.
 
I have read this post from begginning to end.

I cannot believe those that say different.

please please do have him pts, before he damages someone else or yourself again, unfortunatly he is one liability too much, you have tried all the possible options, the horse is lucky you gave him the chance. You could have been paralysed you gave him one chance too many.

I would never post pts too lightly, I expect the likes of richard maxwell would eventually make the same conclusion too, I too suspect like many brain tumour.
 
Thank you for all your thoughts (although some were not really relevant or useful to my plight).

Just to answer a couple of the comments - I was advised by a 'behavioural' specialist to ride him in a simple bit, like a snaffle to avoid the pressure/avoidance battle. They were also the one to advise me to give him the holiday to let him remember how to be a 'horse' and start him from scratch, as if he had never been broken, to try and 'erase' his problems or i.d. the point when it all goes 'pants'!!!!

When bolting towards the fence he doesn't make any attempt to jump (no gathering up) or to swerve away & when leading out he has not only kicked out at me, I just happen to be the one he injured. Leading out to the field to turn out (which is everyday, all day during the summer) we have to use a lunge line to give us the space to jump out of the way as he either kicks out or spins round to take off and bolt (doesn't just save the bolts for riders!)

I have spoken to a number of the top equine rescue centres in the country and they have all advised me to put him down - which as their ethos is to save horses, I don't think they tell many people to take such extreme action.

I have sent tentative emails out to some people who practice the parelli and intelligent horsemanship - all they can tell me is that the problem could have many triggers and that it could take them a long time (and obviously money - while he stays with them) until they find anything, if they do.

Believe me if i could keep my boy i would, but i don't have my own land and while off injured i cannot work and as a consultant that is employment suicide!!! It is only due to the kindness of my livery yard owner that she is letting me keep him there on a 'budget' until i decide what to do.

I have read many other threads and comments on this forum, from which I have got many of the ideas I have already tried for my boy. I was just hoping that there may be something else i could try before giving into the inevitable...

...it is comforting to know that others of you have been through the same situation and have had to make these terrible decisions, once again I thank you for your kind words and ((hugs))...
 
To be honest if the self preservation has gone, no method is going to help. All the natural horsemanship and animal behaviour training relies on a horse being a horse. Running through a fence is not normal, unless in a stampede and having no where else to go, but even then they should attempt to jump as being a flight animal they want to protect themselves.

We had one that backflipped, jumped over a wall through chicken wire and used to back into solid objects. This horse had no self presevation and we had it put down before it killed someone. Vets thought it may have an tumour or aneurysm. It was an easy decision for us, as it had just squished my sister. Also our insurance paid out on the vets diagnosis without a post mortem (huge surprise to us) - so could be worth considering if you have insurance.

Edited to say - we sent her to the knackers to recover £500 as we weren't expecting to get anything from insurance.
 
Not read every post but.... has anyone mentioned the one rein stop?

IMO The ONLY way to ride a bolter is to be able to execute a rapid one rein stop. No-one on this planet can stop a bolter using 2 reins. Of course the horse needs teaching this - don't think I mean just pull on one rein & it's all magic.... it needs some re-education. It could save its life.
 
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CVSHot Shot, is that you riding that horse? The one that is seriously over bent, with your hands too flat and your heel up? Just interested.

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Lmao...
no actually your very wrong & obviously another one with not a clue!...when your 'training' your horse you dont worry about 'your' position you idiot..as long as you have the horse doing what he is supposed to be (Using his back & hind legs which he was) you leave your position for the competition.

But saying as your "Just interested" it just happens to be an international rider who i worked for, who set me up with that horse and who trained him with me...so hope that answers your question!

maybe you shud take up her position with herself saying as you think you know better.

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I'm afraid any argument, whether I/others agree with it or not, is totally devalued when the person putting it forward resorts to calling other people idiots.
 
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Which would be impossible had it been taught the one rein stop

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No, not impossible at all. The one-rein halt very often can stop a bolter, but I can assure you that, no matter if the horse has been trained one-rein-halt correctly, it can still smash through obstacles in it's path and the one-rein-halt is not always the saviour you may think!
 
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CVSHot Shot, is that you riding that horse? The one that is seriously over bent, with your hands too flat and your heel up? Just interested.

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Lmao...
no actually your very wrong & obviously another one with not a clue!...when your 'training' your horse you dont worry about 'your' position you idiot..as long as you have the horse doing what he is supposed to be (Using his back & hind legs which he was) you leave your position for the competition.

But saying as your "Just interested" it just happens to be an international rider who i worked for, who set me up with that horse and who trained him with me...so hope that answers your question!

maybe you shud take up her position with herself saying as you think you know better.

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im sorry i was not going to reply to this thread until i read that!!! 'when your training your horse you dont worry about your position...' but surely you muyst recognise that fact that the rider has a stark inffluence over the horses way of going, and ignoreing this could interfere with the horses maximal competive potential????!!!!

to ignore your position is to me a very idiotic statement to make, YOUR the one training the horse, so how can the horse be going correctly if your own position is dictating otherwise??

i suggest some riding lessons are in order, im sure a nice spell at pony club camp might help (LOL)

btw, nice conformation on that foal(!) bet your proud of that investment.

in relation to this thread, i think it is perfectly clear answer to me. If there is no reasoning behind the behaviour (e.g. trigger factors etc) then there has to be something fundementally wrong with the horse and you therefore have two choices.
1) spend a small fortune investigating all avenues in the hope of coming up with a problem which hopefully there is ananswer to.

OR

2) put the horse down (personally i would PTS so yu can examine the brain but thats my opinion)

either way all avenues could lead to the same conclusion of PTS the horse as he is quite clearly a dangerous horse and not of good temperament. A horse that runs blindly cannot be reasoned with, no matter whether you use the carrot or the stick! At the end of the day, whose life do you value more, yours or his? you have already had some life threatening injuries, what if you had been paralysed???

you have to take all emotion out of this, horses are expensive pets, and his quality of life could be called into question if he is kept as a pet.

Either or, its your choice what you do, i just hope you dont get back on that horse and put yourself in more danger, too many people lose their lives doing stupid things which could have been avoided, dont add to the statistics.

That is all
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im sorry i was not going to reply to this thread until i read that!!! 'when your training your horse you dont worry about your position...' but surely you muyst recognise that fact that the rider has a stark inffluence over the horses way of going, and ignoreing this could interfere with the horses maximal competive potential????!!!!

to ignore your position is to me a very idiotic statement to make, YOUR the one training the horse, so how can the horse be going correctly if your own position is dictating otherwise??

i suggest some riding lessons are in order, im sure a nice spell at pony club camp might help (LOL)

btw, nice conformation on that foal(!) bet your proud of that investment.

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Okay firstly I should clear the position thing up...I wrote it very quickly in response to some other very rude people on this forum, so perhaps i Did not explain myself very well.

I was not suggesting that anyone should IGNOR their position! I agree that it is very important!
What I was trying to explain was this (And I think that Medley has understood what I meant to say)...
When training a young/green horse or simply teaching something new which involves him moving away from the pressure of your leg...you can compromise your position in order to achieve or make your aids clearer.

In this case his training was very basic and in the photo he was being taught to 'move away' from her leg! He did not understand that pressure on the girth meant 'move over' so she simply moved her leg back a couple of inches and applied pressure to help him understand!-which he did and at which point she moved her leg back to the girth!

What good would it be to sit with a perfect position and not achieve what you want?

I am struggling to see why few people are understanding this
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Might I add...Why are we seeing no photos of the girl who made this statement to begin with? If she is such an expert surly she should be showing off?

And aside from this convo...Thanks i am chuffed to bits about my new boy!
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