Future of racing

[Old school]

There was an interesting article in the Racing Post about how difficult it is for trainers to retain their good horses. Once the horse has a success at a decent level, the phone is hopping with offers.

Then was the TV debate/chat mentioning how when a particular trainer had a chance of winning the English Derby, his thought was ‘well that will help to pay a few bills’. The TV panel were talking about how a trainer of that calibre would immediately think of bills rather than anything else was unusual and concerning.

Maybe I have become detached but there seems to be fewer stalwarts in NH racing that turn out season after season. Please correct me. The horse that captures a nation doesn’t seem be there. On the flat Frankel was the last horse that stole my heart. I think Henry Cecil was a huge part of what the public enjoyed in that story.

Perhaps I am just a plank and not aware of those in that frame currently. Elf, your yard sounds very genuine and really enjoyed your bosses reaction to her presentation at the Sales earlier in the year. The English yards seem to have more horse focus. The Irish are winning focused. But the English yards are having a hard time standing up to their Irish counterparts.

The extremely deep pockets of owners,and gambling owners, in particular is making race horses seem like widgets not characters that we fall for. Anyway I find it all a bit gloomy. Maybe I am just in a dull mood.

 

[toppedoff]

Following this

Hold on I'll write what I'll say in a second

 

[toppedoff]

Interesting. I currently do yard work at a point to point yard and they have the ambition of taking out a professional license at some point. He has a name for himself as he's quite a good jockey and had a winner at Cheltenham but he'll only go for it once he has more owners and a name within the trainers game or he'll be thinking the same of "paying the bills."

He also was going on about on an interview I noticed how they need to make their horses and can't just buy them though at the yard, I'm pretty sure the idea is to buy and train n get a good record in p2p before horses get sold off (That's how the bills get paid right now I think + working farm) - thought they aren't professional yard bearing that in mind

Have noticed that there seems to be alot of bouncing of best horse/top horse/national favourite like you said with Frankel being the horse that last caught you though i see it mainly on twitter though and we all know what that's like.. lol though I mainly see alot of Cody's Wish but he's across the pond and has a story

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

The flat horses sell for mega bucks all around the world. They end up in Dubai or Japan. Its not great when your best horses are being sold abroad because they are worth more in the short term doing that than winning races with them here.

Jumps horses are a different kettle of fish. A few good jumpers get sold to America but very few. What I do find a shame is British owners having their horses in training in Ireland and not with their local trainer.

Part of the problem of the Irish jumpers cleaning up is because they are racing against each other all the time. They run at a good speed in every race. Over here we can keep all of our good horses apart until Chetlenham where the horse suddenly has to go 2 strides quicker the entire race and actually battle out a finish instead of sauntering round on the bridle like they do the rest of the season. We have good horses we just don't run them very often or against each other throughout the season.

I agree there hasn't really been a "Horse to follow" for a few years in jumping. Constitution Hill is making everyone watch but he has no one to fight against so his races are boring. We have no crack 2 milers. We have a couple of Gold Cup contenders in Ahoy Senor and Bravemansgame. But both flunked against Galopin Des Champs in March (though I do think Hank may well have had his scalp if he had stayed on his feet! But you have to jump round to win.)

The National is always a lottery and we shall see what comes out of the woodwork for it next year.

 

[bonny]

Willie Mullins, who I think is the best jump trainer ever by a street, just has too many of the best horses so for as long as he trains he will win most of the top races, here and in Ireland. That’s why owners want him to have their horses, even English owners now send their horses to him.
ihave no idea what the answer is but his success is skewing things and not in a healthy way for the sport.

 

[Old school]

Interesting. I currently do yard work at a point to point yard and they have the ambition of taking out a professional license at some point. He has a name for himself as he's quite a good jockey and had a winner at Cheltenham but he'll only go for it once he has more owners and a name within the trainers game or he'll be thinking the same of "paying the bills."

He also was going on about on an interview I noticed how they need to make their horses and can't just buy them though at the yard, I'm pretty sure the idea is to buy and train n get a good record in p2p before horses get sold off (That's how the bills get paid right now I think + working farm) - thought they aren't professional yard bearing that in mind

Have noticed that there seems to be alot of bouncing of best horse/top horse/national favourite like you said with Frankel being the horse that last caught you though i see it mainly on twitter though and we all know what that's like.. lol though I mainly see alot of Cody's Wish but he's across the pond and has a story

I think I remember that chap. Did he win the amateurs Gold Cup and was on his own? Folks like that chap were the absolute back bone of racing. But it has all changed drastically over the past twenty years.

In UK point to points are for the amateur interested in jumps racing. In Ireland it is a pros game. There is no room for the farmer/owner with a mare of good old fashioned NH breeding anymore. They and their fabulous mares have been washed out of the system. It is strictly a window shop for the sales.

The few families that I know who have an older horse in the Opens are up against the Gordon Elliots etc. It is a big change and not one that is good for the industry. As mentioned by Bonny when it becomes skewed it really is on a downward path.

Here, it is heavily funded by the tax payer, but dominated by a few big players. The future generation of tax payers are unlikely to see it as a good investment. It is the lack of foresight to make changes now, while we can, that frustrates me.

 

[toppedoff]

I think I remember that chap. Did he win the amateurs Gold Cup and was on his own? Folks like that chap were the absolute back bone of racing. But it has all changed drastically over the past twenty years.

In UK point to points are for the amateur interested in jumps racing. In Ireland it is a pros game. There is no room for the farmer/owner with a mare of good old fashioned NH breeding anymore. They and their fabulous mares have been washed out of the system. It is strictly a window shop for the sales.

The few families that I know who have an older horse in the Opens are up against the Gordon Elliots etc. It is a big change and not one that is good for the industry. As mentioned when it becomes skewed it really is on a downward path.

Here, it is heavily funded by the tax payer, but dominated by a few big players. The future generation of tax payers are unlikely to see it as a good investment. It is the lack of foresight to make changes now, while we can, that frustrates me.

I just joined the yard in mid June to learn the ropes of racing. I find it quite interesting how it works in Ireland too, didn't realise it was like that

Though away from the jumpers I have noticed that the flats of UK is killing amateur racing, I see flat will be a full on Professional racing only at some point. Is that something you've seen too or are you not a flat person? Only ask because interested in what others say

Racing may just end up collapsing on itself if it isn't careful enough as a whole like you said. What sort of things could be done to make changes to benefit the future? I'm still quite new to the racing industry

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Point to Pointing is the amateurs version of National Hunt Racing - officially. Flapping is the unofficial version of flat racing for amateurs.

Ptp in Britain is very much for amateur riders learning the ropes on old school master horses and for young horses that aren't good enough for the track racing. The odd good horse has come out of British PTP's - Ahoy Senor being one of them.

Irish PTP's are now purely a shop window. You win one of those and the horses price goes into 6 figured 9/10. You need to know what your looking for to get a bargain there. There are still some bargains to be had, we have 2 such in the yard - Corach was 17k because he was 6yo and hadn't won in 5 starts pointing. Scu liked his face so bought him hoping he would win a few round Kelso/Ayr/Carlisle. No one expected him to do what he has done. Apple is another. She was only 35k because she didn't have a fashionable pedigree even though she had won and been placed in a ptp.

Willie Mullins isn't buying the Irish Pointers very often. He is buying horses and foals and yearlings and running them on. If he doesn't think some are going to be good enough they go pointing with someone else and sold on. Gordon points a few too that he wants to sell for big bucks. The British are now having to pay small fortunes for horses that have a 1-3 next to their name in Irish points. Some work out, some don't.

A lot of people buy from France now too. They have big 2 & 3yo store sales.

The priced will have to come down at some point for jumpers.

Flat prices will always be high because if the animal turns out to be quite good then the money is in the breeding sheds for that lot.

 

[Old school]

Nice to read Pammy Huttons opinion piece about promoting the personalities of horses. ref Dressage. She articulated it much better than I could. But the gist is the same. We need horses and yards that connect with the Public through their loyalty to their horses, not just their success.

 

[Maddie Moo]

Having just watched one of my current favourite racehorses breakdown fatally at Saratoga, it’s a difficult question.

Maple Leaf Mel had become a fan favourite with lots of people following and her trainer on SM. But watching her breakdown was completely heartbreaking, one moment it was elation and then it turned into a nightmare.

She was about to make it 6 out 6 and get her first G1

R.I.P Maple Leaf Mel

https://twitter.com/x/status/1687872469359833088

 

[Old school]

Point to Pointing is the amateurs version of National Hunt Racing - officially. Flapping is the unofficial version of flat racing for amateurs.

Ptp in Britain is very much for amateur riders learning the ropes on old school master horses and for young horses that aren't good enough for the track racing. The odd good horse has come out of British PTP's - Ahoy Senor being one of them.

Irish PTP's are now purely a shop window. You win one of those and the horses price goes into 6 figured 9/10. You need to know what your looking for to get a bargain there. There are still some bargains to be had, we have 2 such in the yard - Corach was 17k because he was 6yo and hadn't won in 5 starts pointing. Scu liked his face so bought him hoping he would win a few round Kelso/Ayr/Carlisle. No one expected him to do what he has done. Apple is another. She was only 35k because she didn't have a fashionable pedigree even though she had won and been placed in a ptp.

Willie Mullins isn't buying the Irish Pointers very often. He is buying horses and foals and yearlings and running them on. If he doesn't think some are going to be good enough they go pointing with someone else and sold on. Gordon points a few too that he wants to sell for big bucks. The British are now having to pay small fortunes for horses that have a 1-3 next to their name in Irish points. Some work out, some don't.

A lot of people buy from France now too. They have big 2 & 3yo store sales.

The priced will have to come down at some point for jumpers.

Flat prices will always be high because if the animal turns out to be quite good then the money is in the breeding sheds for that

Corach Rambler- The Early Years | John Walsh trained Corach Rambler to win his 6yo+ Maiden at Monksgrange back in 2020, now trained by Lucinda Russell Racing, the 9yo son of Jeremy is... | By TheHorse.ie | Facebook

John Walsh trained Corach Rambler to win his 6yo+ Maiden at Monksgrange back in 2020, now trained by Lucinda Russell Racing, the 9yo son of Jeremy is...

fb.watch

I am guessing that you have seen this. The P2P handler states how he would be uncomfortable with a super star being sent to him. It is these wonderful horse people that need to be retained in the industry.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

Corach Rambler- The Early Years | John Walsh trained Corach Rambler to win his 6yo+ Maiden at Monksgrange back in 2020, now trained by Lucinda Russell Racing, the 9yo son of Jeremy is... | By TheHorse.ie | Facebook

John Walsh trained Corach Rambler to win his 6yo+ Maiden at Monksgrange back in 2020, now trained by Lucinda Russell Racing, the 9yo son of Jeremy is...

fb.watch

I am guessing that you have seen this. The P2P handler states how he would be uncomfortable with a super star being sent to him. It is these wonderful horse people that need to be retained in the industry.

Hmm. When Corach arrived in the yard he was scared of everything, very, very head shy and flinched and shot away from you if you moved suddenly.