Futurity programme on Horse and Country

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Ciss

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Well done Horse and Country :-)

Really good to see an accurate, well presented programme about something we know about. All the questions people pose about the Futurity answered in 60 min and a good cross sample of types, disciplines and marks shown too (although sadly no sports ponies shown except in the trot up).

Well done also to the HHOers that were featured taking part at Solihull.

I do hope that Jan has been given a DVD of it as it will certainly help us with evaluator training events in the future.
 
Hi Ciss,

Sorry to be a pain, but do you know how anyone without sky can see it?

Thank you
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It was really interesting, and as you say for H&C well done. Usually they are really bitty I find with their coverage of things. I have never been to a futurity evaluation so it was good to see. I particularly liked the Don Dante colt foal and the Larkshill filly foal.
 
just watched it
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rushed round to my brothers as we havent got sky.
There were some fanstastic foalies there.
My boy was on there too
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if only he'd gone down that jumping lane the way he does at home
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ah well.

Great programme
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I was going to say try Freeview but that suggestion has already been made (and sadly shown not to work :-() on the other thread so why not e-mail Horse and Country directly and ask them what they suggest you do.

HTH
 
Thanks Breeze
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Well to be honest he did brilliantly, we were really proud of him, he'd been through allot and he was lucky to even be there.
I would like to do dressage with him and hopefully some show jumping, if im brave enough
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believe me he can jump
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He was abit on the cheeky side to say the least
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Debs x
 
We only have Freeview, not the full blown Sky but we do have a SKY dish,(too tight to pay for Sky!) I don't know if that makes any difference why others haven't been able to get it.
It was very interesting although I missed the foals and yearlings.
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Well good luck with him, lovely guy
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There was a lovely black yearling colt too but I cannot remember his name, I swear my short term memory gets shorter by the day!
 
Ciss I too thought it was a fantastic representation for British Breeding. It was well explained to all about the format and what was being looked at. And I also thought it was great that they said the breeding for each of the horses featured in the programme along with the breeders details, a fantastic shop window. Larkshill Stud came across excellent with their breeding aims, and their foal was GORGEOUS!

The only disappointment I had (and others because I got several texts afterwards) was when Jan said in the commentary that a horse that scored an overall of 8 out of 10 and a 1st Premium would not make an Elite horse for the future, but a good leisure horse!
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I was so shocked with that comment because I dont feel that would be a correct assumption to make.
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But well done to H&C TV, it was very well done.
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[ QUOTE ]
The only disappointment I had (and others because I got several texts afterwards) was when Jan said in the commentary that a horse that scored an overall of 8 out of 10 and a 1st Premium would not make an Elite horse for the future, but a good leisure horse!
shocked.gif
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I was so shocked with that comment because I dont feel that would be a correct assumption to make.
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Fully agree with you here Anastasia. We thought exactly the same. If a First Premium was referred to as being a "leisure horse" what is the point of a less than 1st Premium. It's hardly worth getting that then is it?

We thought the programme was good but does anyone know if they are going to be showing the Championship - surely that would have been better to enable breeders to see what is supposedly the best.
 
I did think that myself...of course it is sometimes hard to describe these things when in an interview....however I agree it could be misleading to a first time viewer...
 
[ QUOTE ]
The only disappointment I had (and others because I got several texts afterwards) was when Jan said in the commentary that a horse that scored an overall of 8 out of 10 and a 1st Premium would not make an Elite horse for the future, but a good leisure horse!
shocked.gif
blush.gif
I was so shocked with that comment because I dont feel that would be a correct assumption to make.
frown.gif
crazy.gif




[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree and my colt who went on to be Reserve Champion did not get an Elite (although maybe if we had a certain evaluater at his evaluations who then saw him later at the Elite show he may have done as she seemed to score Dressage foals highly at her venues ( from what i have made out reading the result pages ) and she did like my boy alot ) but i do believe (and did before his BEF adventures) that this colt has a big future (and havn't had quite the same confidence to say this about previous foals i have bred) Hope that all makes sense LOL

Havnt seen program but will look for a repeat showing
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was he on the one that was on last night? in Solihull? If so which foal
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There was an absolutely gorgeous Don Dante (I put my swooning on the other thread) but also another little one I couldn't remember the name of after.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only disappointment I had (and others because I got several texts afterwards) was when Jan said in the commentary that a horse that scored an overall of 8 out of 10 and a 1st Premium would not make an Elite horse for the future, but a good leisure horse!
shocked.gif
blush.gif
I was so shocked with that comment because I dont feel that would be a correct assumption to make.
frown.gif
crazy.gif




[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree and my colt who went on to be Reserve Champion did not get an Elite (although maybe if we had a certain evaluater at his evaluations who then saw him later at the Elite show he may have done as she seemed to score Dressage foals highly at her venues ( from what i have made out reading the result pages ) and she did like my boy alot ) but i do believe (and did before his BEF adventures) that this colt has a big future (and havn't had quite the same confidence to say this about previous foals i have bred) Hope that all makes sense LOL

Havnt seen program but will look for a repeat showing
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[/ QUOTE ]

Bearing in mind that I was not at the evaluation concerned and did not record it so am only going on my memory of what was said when I saw it last night -- and bearing in mind how evaluations and evaluators minds work I would make the following comment.

Realistically there is a considerable difference in achievement between a *low* -- only just above 8 -- 1st premium on the day (which is what the horse concerned got) and one that comes in firing on all cylinders and gets an Elite score, especially a high one (9.25 or above). As far as I can remember the animal in question was either a 2 year old or a 3 year old (probably a 3 year old) and was very well presented but what brought him up to a low 1st premium was good vet marks (so he is very likely to stay sound) and a good temperament score (so he is likely to be very rideable) rather than his paces, athleticism or the evaluator's assessment of his conformation for sport. He is therefore very marketable as a sound horse that will make a good middle grade competition mount --and everyone on the list agrees we need many of those -- but ON THE DAY neither his level of natural athleticism (which is unlikely to improve under saddle) nor the correctness of his paces or the suitability of his conformation for the discipline chosen were likely to indicate that he would reach the absoloute heights that you would expect an Elite-marked horse to make and his marks from the evaluators refelcted that.

There is more to assessing the horse than the final score as most of you that have been involved in the Futurity know, which is why the critique and the comments on the mark sheet are so important. Also, I am sure that Springfall's boy got a much higher 1st Premium than did the horse in question -- a fact proven by the fact that he quaified for the Elite show based on his high scores in ALL sections from ALL the evaluators (not just the 'dressage' one) and did well at Addington too.

As far as Elite Show coverage is concerned H&C did not want to go to Addington as it was not a typical evaluation -- in fact it was not an evaluation at all course -- and we totally agreed with that decision, especially as we hoped the programme would show horses with a wide spread of marks (from 3rd premium up to Elite) and across all disciplines, including loose jumping, and that would not have been possible at the final.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only disappointment I had (and others because I got several texts afterwards) was when Jan said in the commentary that a horse that scored an overall of 8 out of 10 and a 1st Premium would not make an Elite horse for the future, but a good leisure horse!
shocked.gif
blush.gif
I was so shocked with that comment because I dont feel that would be a correct assumption to make.
frown.gif
crazy.gif




[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree and my colt who went on to be Reserve Champion did not get an Elite (although maybe if we had a certain evaluater at his evaluations who then saw him later at the Elite show he may have done as she seemed to score Dressage foals highly at her venues ( from what i have made out reading the result pages ) and she did like my boy alot ) but i do believe (and did before his BEF adventures) that this colt has a big future (and havn't had quite the same confidence to say this about previous foals i have bred) Hope that all makes sense LOL

Havnt seen program but will look for a repeat showing
smile.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Bearing in mind that I was not at the evaluation concerned and did not record it so am only going on my memory of what was said when I saw it last night -- and bearing in mind how evaluations and evaluators minds work I would make the following comment.

Realistically there is a considerable difference in achievement between a *low* -- only just above 8 -- 1st premium on the day (which is what the horse concerned got) and one that comes in firing on all cylinders and gets an Elite score, especially a high one (9.25 or above). As far as I can remember the animal in question was either a 2 year old or a 3 year old (probably a 3 year old) and was very well presented but what brought him up to a low 1st premium was good vet marks (so he is very likely to stay sound) and a good temperament score (so he is likely to be very rideable) rather than his paces, athleticism or the evaluator's assessment of his conformation for sport. He is therefore very marketable as a sound horse that will make a good middle grade competition mount --and everyone on the list agrees we need many of those -- but ON THE DAY neither his level of natural athleticism (which is unlikely to improve under saddle) nor the correctness of his paces or the suitability of his conformation for the discipline chosen were likely to indicate that he would reach the absoloute heights that you would expect an Elite-marked horse to make and his marks from the evaluators refelcted that.

There is more to assessing the horse than the final score as most of you that have been involved in the Futurity know, which is why the critique and the comments on the mark sheet are so important. Also, I am sure that Springfall's boy got a much higher 1st Premium than did the horse in question -- a fact proven by the fact that he quaified for the Elite show based on his high scores in ALL sections from ALL the evaluators (not just the 'dressage' one) and did well at Addington too.

As far as Elite Show coverage is concerned H&C did not want to go to Addington as it was not a typical evaluation -- in fact it was not an evaluation at all course -- and we totally agreed with that decision, especially as we hoped the programme would show horses with a wide spread of marks (from 3rd premium up to Elite) and across all disciplines, including loose jumping, and that would not have been possible at the final.

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i think more to the point the actual award of first premium was clearly heard/described 'as a good leisure horse' that means by looking in the results of first premiums awarded in the breeder mag theres going to be alot of happy hacker type horses (leisure/pleasure). Also to add the majority of which would be funding the futurity as elite horses are few!!!
 
a sound horse to make a good middle grade competiotn mount is rather different from a nice leisure horse, which implies to me, it would be a nice horse to go hacking on and maybe do a few riding club events. I was always under the impression that first premium stock were likely national level horses and the Elite, international standard.
If a first premium is merely a lesiure horse, what on earth is a third premium any good for, or one that didnt get a premium at all.

i do know that the weighting of the vet marks is under review, as what you say if very true, a horse can get a first premium for being sound and well mannered, without having the necessary athletic potential, but i think the other posters are concerned about the description as a leisure horse rather than a competition mount as you described Ciss.
 
I've just watched it too and felt exactly the same, it looked more than just a good leisure mount to me!
The things I didn't like were some youngsters looked very narrow in front and didn't move from the shoulder, more sort of moved their legs instead of the whole shoulder, but I'm no expert on conformation or movement, I just know what I prefer. Also some walks just didn't look purposeful or to be striding out enough.
I loved the black dressage foal, and hope to see it competing one day.
The jumping lane wasn't planned very well, they could have had far more substantial barriers perhaps to encourage the youngsters forward rather than looking for escape, but then perhaps they could have been prepared better to avoid that too. Not easy I would imagine without access to a safe environment to train them, and I realise not everyone has an arena at home.
I do like the concept, at least people can take their horse along and get an honest evaluation even if they disagree with it.
Perhaps next time add a current Olympic team member or two to the panel at the Finals, I for one would love to hear their evaluations.
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[ QUOTE ]
i think the other posters are concerned about the description as a leisure horse rather than a competition mount as you described Ciss.

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Sorry I missed that bit, as I was more concerned with how I would have marked it, which is why I explained how I think it achieved a very lucky/very borderline 1st premium. I think Jan probably thought that too, but, on reflection, the phrase she might more approriately have used would have been 'a good amateur horse', which in this context means a horse best suited to an amateur that likes to compete at a good level as a *leisure* persuit (ie not someone who does it as a living/at a professional level) rather than condense the phrase in the heat of the interviewing moment.

Do please give her credit for making perhaps one minor slip as I doubt that many of us could have run a competition and provided on the spot, accurate comments at the drop of a hat throughout the day. Of course if any of you feel you can do as well/better and would like to volunteer to help in the 2009 series then PM me as supermen/ women like you are needed at the Futurity all the time <ROFL>
 
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i think the other posters are concerned about the description as a leisure horse rather than a competition mount as you described Ciss.

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Do please give her credit for making perhaps one minor slip as I doubt that many of us could have run a competition and provided on the spot, accurate comments at the drop of a hat throughout the day. Of course if any of you feel you can do as well/better and would like to volunteer to help in the 2009 series then PM me as supermen/ women like you are needed at the Futurity all the time <ROFL>

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one minor blip'''' that left alot of 1st premium awarded owners shocked and disheartened' and went out on national TV!!!!!

you dont have to be superman/women to know what your awards are worth, it is after all what we pay £50 per horse per class for!!!!!( to get a piece of paper with 'good leisure horse'on couldve done that myself n saved some money)!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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dont have to be superman/women to know what your awards are worth, it is after all what we pay £50 per horse per class for!!!!!( to get a piece of paper with 'good leisure horse'on couldve done that myself n saved some money)!!!!!!!!!!!

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No, I do have to say that the strength of your remarks are rather an overreaction as what you also get for you £50 is a pretty good vetting, a mark sheet and comments from experts in sport horse breeding and production and the chance to market your horse to the public in an unstressful environment. And unless you are a vet, an international judge and the very best self-promoter in the world you would not have been able to do that without the Futurity. Nor, or as I saw in one of your previous posts, would you have been able to link your youngster to Julia's breeding programme and bask in the reflected glory by pointing out that yours is also a descendant of Golden Heights.

Nothing can take that away from you and as you were at the Elite show and saw the programme as well you muist have been able to see the difference between the highest scoring animals and even those with a low 8. The vet's mark issue is also being addressed this year and will probably be comments and scales (eg I - V) rather than included scores from now on, so if a horse gets a 1st premium it won't be based on anything but its athleticism, suitability of conformation to the discipline concerned and its temperament/ suitability of type so that should make things a little easier to follow -- although obviously the (non-competitive) vetting element will remain as it is a requirement of the Equine Pathway amongst other things.
 
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was he on the one that was on last night? in Solihull? If so which foal
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There was an absolutely gorgeous Don Dante (I put my swooning on the other thread) but also another little one I couldn't remember the name of after.

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Opps missed this post before sorry
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No he wasnt on TV as we wernt at that venue.
 
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dont have to be superman/women to know what your awards are worth, it is after all what we pay £50 per horse per class for!!!!!( to get a piece of paper with 'good leisure horse'on couldve done that myself n saved some money)!!!!!!!!!!!

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No, I do have to say that the strength of your remarks are rather an overreaction,,,

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*who do you think you are to say the reaction i and others have had to our 1st premiums made out as leisure horses is an over reaction* how very rude of you*



as what you also get for you £50 is a pretty good vetting, a mark sheet and comments from experts in sport horse breeding and production and the chance to market your horse to the public in an unstressful environment. And unless you are a vet, an international judge and the very best self-promoter in the world you would not have been able to do that without the Futurity.
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* Rubbish!!!!*

Nor, or as I saw in one of your previous posts, would you have been able to link your youngster to Julia's breeding programme and bask in the reflected glory by pointing out that yours is also a descendant of Golden Heights.




*
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again how rude of you
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* i actually pm'ed her with most of the info so am not sure how you got that info, if it was an initial public post was very interested in her breeding lines im not basking in any glory, just sharing breeding related issues, i dont need to bask in anyones glory*

Nothing can take that away from you and as you were at the Elite show,,
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,* eeerrrm again facts WRONG wasnt at the championship show!!!

there is no need to be directly rude to me personally and could you please make sure your facts are correct if you are going to throw up old posts. if you reply constructivley then gr8 , dont reply just to be rude!
 
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who do you think you are

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Someone tell her please (and why I know what I am talking about when I explain what happened <ROFL>) and perhaps also give her lessons on how to use the quote nesting system :-)

I think a little keyboard cooling is called for here otherwise Admin might feel it has to step in again.

BTW the link to the public Golden Heights post is still there if anyone wants to look <VGB>
 
how rude you are
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, and what a shockingly unprofessional attitude
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. I rest my case you have proved my point, you couldnt reply constructivly so you got abusive ( remind you of anyone) I am not going to continue this with you its very very childish if you want to conduct yourself in that way then so beit, its in black and white for all to see. !
To add noone seems to be telling me who you are and why you seem to think its ok to be rude!!!!
i for one am using my ignore button for the first time!

eta, someone show her how to cut and paste links correctly!! rofl
 
Oh come on this is such a pity as on the whole the Futurity is developing well helping people along the way and recognising some super youngstock for all spheres and abilities.
I agree that a 1st premium is a good national horse for the comptetive rider. The Elite horse is the horse i would expect to be more likely to have the international career.
Jan made a comment that like lots of thigs may or may not have been slightly taken out of context [cant say as i have not seen the piece yet as several of my friends have told me about it]
That day, i remember it well was LONG the judging started very early and those interviews were done at the end of that very long day. Jan had a very stressful time as that was a last minute venue due to the other venue having a problem.
So , yes the comment about the jumping lane was sort of right but we would not have had that as a first choice venue on that day. The barriers are something we discussed along with how to better present the jumping. However the production of horses for the free jumping was not all that it could or should have been and the assesors were more than fair and every horse was given a very fair chance to show what it coulld do.
As for Olypmpic judges i would have though the calibre of Yogi Briesner at the final and also as an trained assesror was pretty good if thats what ticks your box as well as Carl Hester and Geof Glazzardbeing at the final as judges indeed some of the judges have actually won Olympic medals!!!.
I would also like to say that pretty much all of the judges have a lot of experience and have developed their skills and give their best opinions and advise knowing the affects this has. It is not something done lightly and many a time a super looking horse from the vet side came in but was seriously underwhelming when it came to everything else.
i hope that covers some of the things pointed out but please dont take one comment to mean so much as a 'whole' from everyone who has spoken to me about it they found it interesting , informative and are under no illusions what a good 1st premium is.
 
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