ASTJMHR
Active Member
Out of interest, do any of you feel it's worth taking the same youngster to the futurity again the following year? I can see the point where any weakness has improved for evaluation, but otherwise?
Futurity Q
- Thread starter ASTJMHR
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scotsmare
Well-Known Member
How did the youngster get on last year?
ASTJMHR
Active Member
It was really just a discussion I was having with a friend. Both of us have decided not to take our youngsters back this year -both evaluated well as yearlings last year (first premiums with the odd 9) and it just doesn't seem worth it. What will it add? Mine turns a right front hence low vet mark, degree of which hasn't changed. I suppose the only new element this year is the champ show at the end if you get that far. Probably worth reappearing as a 3yr old to loose jump but from foal to 2yr old there's little progression - nothing new asked of them/to achieve. She would be ready to loose jump this year but of course we're slower than abroad on that front!
volatis
Well-Known Member
Two interesting points there - firstly re only 3yos loose jumping.
We took Portia out twice last year as a 2yo, she won at east of England and then was Champion at the Trakehner breed show (as the only 2yo too beating the older horses). But those were the only opportunities we could find for her loose jumping.
This year I cant find any for 2yos (except again the Trakehner breed show which is open to 2yo upwards). East of England dont do the loose jumping anymore and the National Hunter show and Equifest only have them for 3yos up.
I wonder if 2yos in the show jumping catergory at the BEf should be expected to loose jump.
Secondly, we wont be representing any of our foals that won premiums last year. We will be taking a 2yo that hasn't been before, and some of this years foals (if they are nice enough). Like you I think we will generally stick to evaluating them at foal and 3.
We took Portia out twice last year as a 2yo, she won at east of England and then was Champion at the Trakehner breed show (as the only 2yo too beating the older horses). But those were the only opportunities we could find for her loose jumping.
This year I cant find any for 2yos (except again the Trakehner breed show which is open to 2yo upwards). East of England dont do the loose jumping anymore and the National Hunter show and Equifest only have them for 3yos up.
I wonder if 2yos in the show jumping catergory at the BEf should be expected to loose jump.
Secondly, we wont be representing any of our foals that won premiums last year. We will be taking a 2yo that hasn't been before, and some of this years foals (if they are nice enough). Like you I think we will generally stick to evaluating them at foal and 3.
jrp204
Well-Known Member
Our boy was 3rd eventing pony 3yr old, but i won't be taking him back, not sure what we would gain as an owner as opposed to a breeder. We know someone who won a class with a foal 2yrs ago, took foal back last year and didn't do nearly as well. I can see the gain to the breeders but at £50 a class i think i'll give it a miss.
ASTJMHR
Active Member
interesting isn't it - I think the BEF needs to continue developing in this area and attracting us back with the same horse! I'd pay another £50 to loose jump my 2yr old but not to just take her around the triangle again. Last time I was over in Germany for a stud open day the 2yr and 3yr old jumping offspring were shown loose jumping (obviously) and 2yr dressage progeny were long reined to the side - walk and collected trot and 3yrs the same with passage inhand. Much more training going in early.
zoeshiloh
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Germany for a stud open day the 2yr and 3yr old jumping offspring were shown loose jumping (obviously) and 2yr dressage progeny were long reined to the side - walk and collected trot and 3yrs the same with passage inhand. Much more training going in early.
[/ QUOTE ]
But is this good or bad? I personally wouldn't want to loose jump a two year old, and I certainly wouldn't want a three year old doing passage. No wonder there are so many joint problems developing in youg horses - people seem to be pushing them before their joints are fully developed.
Germany for a stud open day the 2yr and 3yr old jumping offspring were shown loose jumping (obviously) and 2yr dressage progeny were long reined to the side - walk and collected trot and 3yrs the same with passage inhand. Much more training going in early.
[/ QUOTE ]
But is this good or bad? I personally wouldn't want to loose jump a two year old, and I certainly wouldn't want a three year old doing passage. No wonder there are so many joint problems developing in youg horses - people seem to be pushing them before their joints are fully developed.
Penniless
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Germany for a stud open day the 2yr and 3yr old jumping offspring were shown loose jumping (obviously) and 2yr dressage progeny were long reined to the side - walk and collected trot and 3yrs the same with passage inhand. Much more training going in early.
[/ QUOTE ]
But is this good or bad? I personally wouldn't want to loose jump a two year old, and I certainly wouldn't want a three year old doing passage. No wonder there are so many joint problems developing in youg horses - people seem to be pushing them before their joints are fully developed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Quite agree with you on this especially when everyone has always got an opinion on how bad it is breaking in young racehorses. As you say, surely more stress is being put on their legs etc doing jumping then just going in a straight line with about 7.5 stone on their back. Personal opinion here I know, but we certainly won't be doing any jumping with our 2 year olds - even our TBs bred for NH aren't allowed to jump until the end of their 3rd year.
[ QUOTE ]
Germany for a stud open day the 2yr and 3yr old jumping offspring were shown loose jumping (obviously) and 2yr dressage progeny were long reined to the side - walk and collected trot and 3yrs the same with passage inhand. Much more training going in early.
[/ QUOTE ]
But is this good or bad? I personally wouldn't want to loose jump a two year old, and I certainly wouldn't want a three year old doing passage. No wonder there are so many joint problems developing in youg horses - people seem to be pushing them before their joints are fully developed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Quite agree with you on this especially when everyone has always got an opinion on how bad it is breaking in young racehorses. As you say, surely more stress is being put on their legs etc doing jumping then just going in a straight line with about 7.5 stone on their back. Personal opinion here I know, but we certainly won't be doing any jumping with our 2 year olds - even our TBs bred for NH aren't allowed to jump until the end of their 3rd year.
ASTJMHR
Active Member
It's a question of degree - I see no problems in loose jumping a young horse provided it's done lightly, responsibly and with experience. I fail to see how you can fully evaluate the potential of a young horse, particularly a showjumper,without it. Of course I grew up in Germany so it's the norm for me to see a 2 yr old loose jumping. It's my own personal view (from my own experience - everyone different of course!) that a horse is more confident more quickly jumping with rider on board when it has been loose jumped - technique and to an extent muscles already more developed etc.
As for the 3yr olds doing inhand passage, I spoke with the stud manager who said they learnt over a period of 4 days - half an hour training per day and purely to demonstrate their trainability.
As for the 3yr olds doing inhand passage, I spoke with the stud manager who said they learnt over a period of 4 days - half an hour training per day and purely to demonstrate their trainability.
cruiseline
Well-Known Member
I too am against loose jumping 2 year olds as well as seeing over produced young dressage horses.
If a two year old is being produced to loose jump for a grading or evaluation, just think how much work has gone into them before they are shown to the public. I disagree that a horse who has been loose jumped is more confident and quicker to jump with a rider on board. IMO over jumping a young horse loose can have a negative affect on the horses confidence once a rider is added to the equation. How many stunning loose jumping horses have we seen over the years in auctions etc. Where are they now?
I had a very interesting converstion with one of the top equine orthopedic surgeons in the UK. He said that the injuries he is having to deal with in the modern day sports horse, were DIRECTLY linked to the fact that people were not allowing their horses to mature before putting the stress of jumping or advanced dressage movements on young underdeveloped joints, especially the sacroiliac which is not fully developed until the age of 6 years. His opinion was that no horse should be backed or loose jump until it was at least 4 and no horse should jump with a rider on its back until the age of 5.
But of course it is all about money, as with the thoroughbred industry, it cost to have young horses standing around waiting for them to mature. The conveyor belt breeders, as I call them, want them born, working and out as soon as possible, so the next batch can be worked on. They really don't care what happens to them after that, you can always blame the rider.
If a two year old is being produced to loose jump for a grading or evaluation, just think how much work has gone into them before they are shown to the public. I disagree that a horse who has been loose jumped is more confident and quicker to jump with a rider on board. IMO over jumping a young horse loose can have a negative affect on the horses confidence once a rider is added to the equation. How many stunning loose jumping horses have we seen over the years in auctions etc. Where are they now?
I had a very interesting converstion with one of the top equine orthopedic surgeons in the UK. He said that the injuries he is having to deal with in the modern day sports horse, were DIRECTLY linked to the fact that people were not allowing their horses to mature before putting the stress of jumping or advanced dressage movements on young underdeveloped joints, especially the sacroiliac which is not fully developed until the age of 6 years. His opinion was that no horse should be backed or loose jump until it was at least 4 and no horse should jump with a rider on its back until the age of 5.
But of course it is all about money, as with the thoroughbred industry, it cost to have young horses standing around waiting for them to mature. The conveyor belt breeders, as I call them, want them born, working and out as soon as possible, so the next batch can be worked on. They really don't care what happens to them after that, you can always blame the rider.