Bendavis
Member
no
FYI: New Legislation regarding Tachographs in HGV Horseboxes
- Thread starter Boolagh
- Start date
Bendavis
Member
Hi a comercial vehicle is for the carriage of goods, Horses which are not used for reward and non professional show jumper as we are and therefore the box is leisure vehicle see report of 16 april 2007 horse and hound report afer the rules came in 5 april 2007 this was a inteview with vosa and at no time did they say anthing about weight see report defra says this is a non economic venture vosa quite clearly says no tacho read eu rules also france not using it a member state as there is no difference between a 7.5 ton private horse box and a 9 ton only the driving licence category , i understand this only the opion of one vosa man who is mireading the rules make representation to you mp as this is flagrant breach of our civil libertys
Bendavis
Member
Hi by doing this you are admitting in law you you should use the tacho, Object throu the right channels
Bendavis
Member
if a tachos fitted it must have a calibration even though you do not use tacho if not it will fail at the test
nuffield
Well-Known Member
and dont forget that speed limits apply too.
i.e. 40 mph max on an A road
and 50mph max on a dual carriageway
and 56mph max on a motorway and restricted to the 2 inside lanes.
i.e. 40 mph max on an A road
and 50mph max on a dual carriageway
and 56mph max on a motorway and restricted to the 2 inside lanes.
nuffield
Well-Known Member
and the vehicle must be serviced every 6 weeks at an appropriate HGV establishment.
Bendavis
Member
Hi What action are you taking Nuffield as this is an infringement of our civil rights and as lovers of horses.
nuffield
Well-Known Member
me? nothing! its to do with safety, so that tired people are not driving.
The rule should apply to farmers too, see my other thread.
The rule should apply to farmers too, see my other thread.
Bendavis
Member
Hi you have mage no comment rehorse boxes
Bendavis
Member
Hi everone i cant understand why no one is asking about these rules as it will cause a lot of trouble for non professional riders , As we make no momey out of this and this is a hobby , please dont let the tide run over you
Nic
Well-Known Member
Just phoned Glasgow Vosa re our lorry as it's old thought it might be excempt as it's old!
They confirmed our 13T needs a calibrated Tacho & that it will impact on Dad's driver hours. Just as well I'm doing my HGV then!
They confirmed our 13T needs a calibrated Tacho & that it will impact on Dad's driver hours. Just as well I'm doing my HGV then!
Bendavis
Member
Hi Nico re your lorry , You dont say whether you use it private for no gain and if not make a noise with the BSJA And BHIS as this is against the E/U rules France has derigated this so can we This is against our hobbys nothing to do with safty just a petty rule and not in the realms of justice in which the British are so proud of ,The difference ina 7.5 and a 9 ton taxed private is only the driving licence catogory both leiusre vehicle we all need to stamp our feet or showjumping an dressage eventt outside our areas will be a thing of the past
nuffield
Well-Known Member
Hi, theres a very good thread on Arabian Lines about this. A transporter has explained quite clearly about DRFRA and VOSA rules with regards to private individuals.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
Bendavis
Member
Hi where are you getting your info from, As you have not read e/u directive on carriage of domestic animals for non economic journeys , Are you happy with this infringment on you leisure time hobby and is nothing to do with the wtd or d/h as vosa has clearly said private driving will come under domestic rules ,Therefore that is the 10 hour rule and see previous mail asking what is the difference bewteen a 7 . 5 t and a 8 ton private nothing ecept the driving licence catogories . Sensible answers only please
Bendavis
Member
ps no exemption cert no not for horse boxes
Bendavis
Member
HI looked on the site you said but could not see it can you help with this
Bendavis
Member
to nuffield can you say where on the A rb site you saw this about TA S as i could not see it . Thanks
Bendavis
Member
Hi I dont undrtstand why no one has not followed up about tachos in over seven .five ton horse boxes other than myself with vosa if you except yhis which is clearly wrong . James tBroom has now set a precedent by getting the welsh authorties to drop the bridge price for horse boxes from 15 30 to 5 30 because they are in agreement that a box with full living I.E shower Beds Cookers etc under the E?u rules is a motor home because a horse is a domestic animal unless you eat it or used for gain . Comments please
EquusOurique
New User
Having been involved in transport and logistics before I retired (early!) and became involved full time with horses I hope the following is of some use.
There are some absolute facts regarding tachos and Operator Licences plus the status of PLG taxation which everyone needs to be aware of.
1. Be very careful when you carry any horse that does not belong to you. If you have received (or are deemed to have received) payment either as a fuel share or in "kind" the authorities will expect you to have an operators licence, the correct road fund licence and insurance that covers "hire and reward". Furthermore you must use the tachograph and comply with drivers hours.
2. Any HGV box must use a tacho at all times and comply with the drivers hours rules plus all of the above IF you are receiving payment or compensation.
3. As a livery yard for example taking clients horses to a show and including this (in your terms and conditions) you must comply, in theory at least, with para 1. So if you are stopped, which is happening more as 7.5 tonne trucks are weighed more often, be VERY careful about what you say.
I think there are some very simple steps that you can take to sort the situation and protect yourself.
1. Visit a local weighbridge to determine the unladen weight of your truck just after a show once you have unloaded the horses but keep all of the tack etc. on board. Keep this ticket in the cab at all times.
Ideally weigh the truck again with the horses on board plus any people you normally carry and get an actual weight all up.
You will see if you have any margin for larger horses, more equipment etc. and by showing the officers at a roadside check that you have really made the best effort to comply you will probably get an easier time!
Whilst at the weighbridge with horses loaded it is advisable to get axle weights done, this is where you may fall down even if you are correct overall.
2. Visit your local test station and ask them their interpretation of whether you need the tacho calibrated and checked. Take all of your trucks papers and maybe even the truck, these guys are normally very helpful and are not there to trip you up. Get the name of the person that has given the advice, write it down and keep it with the documents so that when test day comes round you can refer to his advice directly. Be prepared, if you need the tacho done this will give you time and avoid a fail!
3. It really isnt that onerous to fill in and use a tacho. With one driver you can be on "duty" for 15 hours three times a week and twice a week drive for 10 hours. Technically your work preparing the horses before the show and then unloading etc. counts toward "duty".
Ask yourself the question "Am I really safe to work more than 15 hours, drive more than 10 hours, compete, look after the horses at the show, feed the kids etc.?" I believe the answer has to be NO.
It is possible to extend the duty time to 16 hours by using 2 drivers and if someone else can share the burden then take a break and enjoy it. You must both use a tacho card however.
The working week, in law, starts at 00.00 Monday morning but unless you are doing more than 5 days connected with the horses I would not get into the detail!
As a private individual your "normal" job should not count toward drivers hours rules. A livery yard owner/driver however would have their "horsey" work included so make sure that your day off is recorded somewhere.
Sorry this is so long winded but I hope it helps. Stick a tacho card in is my advice and then you cant be wrong but keep it in the cab in case you are stopped.
There are some absolute facts regarding tachos and Operator Licences plus the status of PLG taxation which everyone needs to be aware of.
1. Be very careful when you carry any horse that does not belong to you. If you have received (or are deemed to have received) payment either as a fuel share or in "kind" the authorities will expect you to have an operators licence, the correct road fund licence and insurance that covers "hire and reward". Furthermore you must use the tachograph and comply with drivers hours.
2. Any HGV box must use a tacho at all times and comply with the drivers hours rules plus all of the above IF you are receiving payment or compensation.
3. As a livery yard for example taking clients horses to a show and including this (in your terms and conditions) you must comply, in theory at least, with para 1. So if you are stopped, which is happening more as 7.5 tonne trucks are weighed more often, be VERY careful about what you say.
I think there are some very simple steps that you can take to sort the situation and protect yourself.
1. Visit a local weighbridge to determine the unladen weight of your truck just after a show once you have unloaded the horses but keep all of the tack etc. on board. Keep this ticket in the cab at all times.
Ideally weigh the truck again with the horses on board plus any people you normally carry and get an actual weight all up.
You will see if you have any margin for larger horses, more equipment etc. and by showing the officers at a roadside check that you have really made the best effort to comply you will probably get an easier time!
Whilst at the weighbridge with horses loaded it is advisable to get axle weights done, this is where you may fall down even if you are correct overall.
2. Visit your local test station and ask them their interpretation of whether you need the tacho calibrated and checked. Take all of your trucks papers and maybe even the truck, these guys are normally very helpful and are not there to trip you up. Get the name of the person that has given the advice, write it down and keep it with the documents so that when test day comes round you can refer to his advice directly. Be prepared, if you need the tacho done this will give you time and avoid a fail!
3. It really isnt that onerous to fill in and use a tacho. With one driver you can be on "duty" for 15 hours three times a week and twice a week drive for 10 hours. Technically your work preparing the horses before the show and then unloading etc. counts toward "duty".
Ask yourself the question "Am I really safe to work more than 15 hours, drive more than 10 hours, compete, look after the horses at the show, feed the kids etc.?" I believe the answer has to be NO.
It is possible to extend the duty time to 16 hours by using 2 drivers and if someone else can share the burden then take a break and enjoy it. You must both use a tacho card however.
The working week, in law, starts at 00.00 Monday morning but unless you are doing more than 5 days connected with the horses I would not get into the detail!
As a private individual your "normal" job should not count toward drivers hours rules. A livery yard owner/driver however would have their "horsey" work included so make sure that your day off is recorded somewhere.
Sorry this is so long winded but I hope it helps. Stick a tacho card in is my advice and then you cant be wrong but keep it in the cab in case you are stopped.