GAH!!!! lower leg position. Shameful confession.

[LauraBR]

Today I bought some of those training things that attach your leg to the girth lol. Seriously, I bought them.

When jumping my leg swings back and I SOoooooo struggle to control it!

Please someone give me some advice other than heels down chin up which I am concentrating on with all my heart....

Embarrassing evidence in the gallery

it actually makes me giggle how rubbish I am.

 

[PinkFairy]

i also have problems with my lower leg for the life of me i cant keep it in alignment with my hips etc. My leg is forward but not really far forward, but its uncomfortable when its moved back i suppose because i dont sit properly

 

[Weezy]

Stirrup length? Hike them right up, and practise cantering in a really secure XC seat and popping over fences without changing position - think of your ankle, knee and hip as your suspension and so keep them boingy, weight in heel (but NOT jamming it down and not too much weight in your ball of foot) - you can practise cantering around in a jumping position too, raising yourself up and down through your leg (suspension)

 

[Iestyn]

I had a major prob with keeping my lower leg secure in it's position. I found (in a GP or Jumping saddle - not so easy in dressage saddle) that shortening stirrups and standing out of the saddle keeping back straight and looking forward fantstic. Started with walk, then proceeded to trot and canter. Eventually did transitions whilst standing out of the saddle as well. It got my balance sorted, my lower leg secure and in the right place "underneath" me. I did it whilst warming up in the arena, out hacking and within a few weeks the difference was noticeable.

 

[TinselRider]

lots and lots of no stirrup work.....build it up from walk, then trot, then into canter, then some small jumps without them....................................This has worked WONDERS for my lower leg

 

[trelawnyhorses1]

my friend used baler twine to do the same as those gadgets u bought and she got terrible shin splints so b carefull
some ppl have a less independant seat and leg than others i wud jus get a gd instructor to hell you

 

[air78]

If the lower leg leg is slipping back, it usually means you are tight through the knee i.e gripping here, rather than leting the weight down into the foot/ heel.
As said above lots of work in the light seat position will help, but keep reminding yourself to RELAX the knee!!! Thats what i do, and does help.

 

[teapot]

Lots of work at the trot - not rising, just hovering in jump length stirrups - ideal if you're hacking out

Really helps sort your lower leg out - used to do the above exercise when I used to escort the hacks - poor kids had more trot than normal just so i could sort my lower leg out. And it really does work

 

[TGM]

[ QUOTE ]
I found (in a GP or Jumping saddle - not so easy in dressage saddle) that shortening stirrups and standing out of the saddle keeping back straight and looking forward fantstic.

[/ QUOTE ] This is what my instructor has been doing with my daughter to strengthen her lower leg position - it has really worked a treat

 

[GTs]

I hate to say it lzt (I like you, I really do) but problems like these are incredibly difficult to solve when you are riding a young horses. I have never seen a successful case where both horse and rider learn at the same time - it just does not work!!

If you have a accomplished horse you can ride I think you would benefit from doing these exercises (especially no stirrups) on him, and really get control of your lower leg. If not I think you guys have a lot of hard work ahead of you.

I have to say I cringed when I read your story about falling off this weekend - falls like that should really not happen, and to me are like dodging the bullet. Please be careful!

 

[LauraBR]

[ QUOTE ]
I hate to say it lzt (I like you, I really do) but problems like these are incredibly difficult to solve when you are riding a young horses. I have never seen a successful case where both horse and rider learn at the same time - it just does not work!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks GTs but keep up- I sold Fal ages ago and even if I did still have him I would not have dreamt of jumping him properly. My current horse is a 9yo.

[ QUOTE ]
I have to say I cringed when I read your story about falling off this weekend - falls like that should really not happen, and to me are like dodging the bullet. Please be careful!

[/ QUOTE ]

I will be careful and I have never professed to be a fantastic rider. Cringe and judge all you want people, I'm putting so much work in right now and trying SO hard.

 

[spider]

GTS I do find you very judgemental at times. Why on earth shouldn't someone do excercises to improve their lower leg position on a young horse.Or have I totally misunderstood. Anyway I thought that Izt now has a fairly mature horse and that she is an experienced rider.

 

[Iestyn]

Tend to agree with your generalisation that young horses and novice riders don't do well together but there are exceptions to the rule. I naively got my boy as a 3yr old ex-racer and having only ridden myself "properly" for a couple of years. It has turned out ok and we are having a very successful time! If one gets the right youngster sometimes it can be a good thing to learn together.

lzt sold her youngster and bought and older horse and I think they're just going through the "getting to know you and taking the p**s" stage. He'll soon get over it lzt...just get a hold of him and tell him who's boss!

 

[LauraBR]

[ QUOTE ]
just get a hold of him and tell him who's boss!

[/ QUOTE ]

And that is exactly it! We are so getting the measure of each other and right now he's winning more than me... but we are moving in the right direction and I'm getting much tougher... Sam is the opposite of Fal lol!

 

[GTs]

LZT I knew Fal had gone, but I thought you bought another baby! I take back everything I said - I had visions of you riding without stirrups doing excersis with a young wingnut underneath you! Falling off does happen, part of learning I have done it more times then I care to count, with a proper horse (which I just learnt you have) any fall off goes into the learning category and not the avoidable! SORRY!!!

Spider the main reason is a young horse needs to be ridden to benefit them, not the rider. Young horses need consistancy to learn, with a rider learning ontop of them they will not get that consistancy.

S_V There are always exceptions to the rule, you got lucky! I personally do not think greenies are all that tough if you think about where they are coming from (lots of fast exercise, strict routine, etc - duplicate that and mold it to your way). I have not followed the story of this new horse to be able to comment if I think it is taking the piss, but I wish lzt, and it the very best!!

 

[Skhosu]

lol, it's better than somebody else buying them for you!!! It'll just click someday, it happens occasionally with me, and then i forget and have bad legs again.
btw, been meaning to ask, how is Fal getting on?

 

[Iestyn]

Lol...lzt...you are having fun, and it's been a long time coming for you. At the moment, getting out and doing something is what you're aiming to achieve. In time that will change to completing a round, and after that it'll be no run-outs or stopping and after that it'll be going clear. It'll take time, there's no doubt about that - but think of the snese of achievement when it does happen.

You work extremely hard at your riding - you clearly love it and you horse. In hindsight you know yourself Fal wasn't the right horse, but you seem to be so upbeat about this lad even when you have fallen out or been eliminated - there's seems to be something in the tone of your posts that suggest that you are having fun for once...and long may it last!

 

[LauraBR]

[ QUOTE ]
Lol...lzt...you are having fun, and it's been a long time coming for you. At the moment, getting out and doing something is what you're aiming to achieve. In time that will change to completing a round, and after that it'll be no run-outs or stopping and after that it'll be going clear. It'll take time, there's no doubt about that - but think of the snese of achievement when it does happen.

You work extremely hard at your riding - you clearly love it and you horse. In hindsight you know yourself Fal wasn't the right horse, but you seem to be so upbeat about this lad even when you have fallen out or been eliminated - there's seems to be something in the tone of your posts that suggest that you are having fun for once...and long may it last!

[/ QUOTE ]

OMG- you SO have the measure of me S_V, it's scary! Thanks x

 

[mrdarcy]

I have the exact same problem - had some jumping lessons over the summer and whilst I got my left leg under control my right leg had a complete mind of it's own!

I found thinking about jamming my heel down and putting more weight in my stirrups on approach to a jump helped me a lot. Also thinking about having my lower leg further forward than is perhaps correct (having had it hammered into me for the last five years that I rode with my lower leg too far forward I now have the opposite problem!)

By the way I've also bought some of those training straps and I'm not afraid to use them! All the riders on Only Fools on Horses used them so why not me? It's all about muscle memory... if your legs are kept in place by the straps then the leg muscles will learn that's the correct place to be.

Lastly I'd say don't be so hard on yourself. You're doing more than fab, in fact I admire you loads for being so brave with him. Keep on doing what you're doing, keep the fences smallish for now and get those training straps on

 

[spider]

I agree in principle, but i suppose it depends on the horse and how young you are talking. I wouldn't do sitting trot on a young horse but if it was calm I would walk without stirrups and do legs away perhaps, because it helps me and it's part of the horse's education to get used to a rider doing weird things.

 

[LEC]

I have an awful lower leg SJ and was shamed by some of my photos at B&W but xc was fine - chatted to trainer and realised I ride so much shorter for xc and so am so much more secure. So my Sj length has gone up. Its hard if you have a lazy or green horse as you spend so much time kicking that it sometimes does not help. Keep going at least you have recognised it.

 

[tractorgirl]

Izt there's masses of us out here struggling with exactly what you are! Thing is, you're brave enough to admit it!
I am wrestling this one too and have been told to think about moving your bum back over the fence rather then folding from the hip. Sounds odd but helped me not to tip forward and pivot from the knee which for me is what was pushing my lower leg back. Then when my delightful horse throws a dirty stop, I don't fall off (so often!) Also when I am able to sit behind him more on the way in, he doesn't stop!

The tip about cantering up in your stirrups is good too. The other thing I do out hacking to improve my balance is trotting up for two down for one, them up for three and down for one to ensure that my balance and security is from the lower leg.

 

[GTs]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree in principle, but i suppose it depends on the horse and how young you are talking. I wouldn't do sitting trot on a young horse but if it was calm I would walk without stirrups and do legs away perhaps, because it helps me and it's part of the horse's education to get used to a rider doing weird things.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do not think walking around doing things like that is going to beneficial to either the rider or the horse - I just think too many novices are getting young horses, and not bringing them on properly. Learn to ride before you try and teach a horse - it is better for everyone and a lot more fun!

 

[PapaFrita]

Nothing wrong with that!! There's a girl at the yard whose legs swing around like mad when she's cantering and it drives ponio potty! I've suggested she try something similar herself

I'm sure you'll be brilliant soon

 

[spider]

OK sorry to keep using your post Izt for a different discussion. Here is my own shameful confession!! I have been riding on and off for forty years and my lower leg position is not very good
Maybe you would think that I should just give up, but I enjoy it, recognise my weaknesses and try to improve.
I would not call myself a novice but I am not experienced or very good. I find my hips and knees are very stiff and doing excercises at walk does help.
And second confession, after coming back to riding seriously I bought a 4 year old . I've taught him a lot, he's taught me a lot, and I've had lots of help and advice. he's turning into a nice pony. Everytime I've said to someone he's never done that before perhaps someone more experienced ought to do it with him, they always say just go and do it. So we've done quite a few things now that neither of us and done before and he seems fine about it.
Anyway that's where I'm coming from. So we'll have to agree to differ. You're obviously a much better rider than me, so if you come to the UK and you're not too tall or too heavy you're welcome to have a ride and tell me where I've gone wrong!

 

[Iestyn]

GTs has a habit of being quie patronising and condecending - but I don't think I have ever seen a post from him about his riding or any in Competition Riders. Very quick to criticise others, but never disclosing his own experiences. A little knowledge can sometimes be dangerous...is that how the saying goes?

Maybe he needs to read Chris Bartle's article from H&H last week? I like the point that nowadays, as horses are kept for leisure, riders only ever have experience of that one horse they own - they can't develop outstanding horsemanship as they would need to be riding a load of different horses every day of the week. We do the best we can with what we've got - we work bloody long hours to fund our passion and can often only have the one horse. If I could afford to give up work and have a yard full of horses and pay the best of instruction I'm sure I'd be a damn sight better than I am - but alas, it'll never happen.

We do all the exercises we can on our one horse - both for our benefit, his benefit and often for mutual benefit. I am sick of people on this forum shi***ng over other people's achievements. The arrogance is unbelievable.

 

[Tia]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't do sitting trot on a young horse

[/ QUOTE ]

I am puzzled by this comment?

Why would you not do sitting trot on a young horse?


Izt - legs are peculiar things; they seem to have a mind of their own some of the time. I know my toes point slightly outwards when I jump and I know exactly why I do it.....too many years of riding bareback; and I'm still a passionate bareback rider and I find when I ride in a saddle that my toes are barely in the stirrups hence tootsies believing we are still bareback.

S_V made a very valid point about most people having only 1 or 2 horses and therefore they do tend to get in a little bit of a rut at times; however even though I have a lot of horses you might be surprised to learn that I find that most of them are incredibly similar to ride so it really isn't so different.

No rider is perfect and we all have our good days and our off days......as do our horses. Remember the story of Robert the Bruce and the spider......

 

[LauraBR]

Thanks for all the advice guys. Had fab schooling session today!

No jumping as it was as it dark for that BUT we did loads of canter work in the jumping position with me sticking my bum out (suggestion from my post in pic gallery) and it worked wonders for my xc canter! Much better with my bum stuck out- easier to get my leg on and I wasn't collapsing backwards either as I occassionally do.

Always the simple tips that make the biggest difference!

 

[GTs]

All I think is a lot people could be having more fun if they bought horses suited for them. Just because 'Buttercup' or 'Babydoll' is pretty, gives you nice kisses does not mean she is the right horse for you. I have seen so many people who have horses that they love, but when they get on they are battling every second, and have a miserable ride. Horses are too expensive, and consume too much time to have that type of experience.

The main point is to buy the horse you are safe and can have the most fun on. Some people here do not like my style, however it is very practical and straight forward - I think you will find many of the more advanced rider agree with a lot of what I say!

As for my riding, it is coming a long - I still wobble on the rising trot, flap like a bird, but next week my instructor says I can go off the lead rein!! WAHOO!!!

 

[mrdarcy]

Re the young horse/novice onwer debate, yes theoretically a novice rider would be better buying a schoolmaster who could teach them everything... however back to the real world.

Many older horses have as many, if not more behaviourial problems as the green horse who knows nothing. Finding a real schoolmaster is very difficult, and many horses sold as such really aren't. The true schoolmaster is out of reach financially for most people.

I think as long as the owner/rider is willing to seek help and take advice then a novice buying a younger horse shouldn't always be a problem.