Gah. What do you understand by the term 'Working Pupil'?

[planete]

As this is only for a short period, it would be more logical to use a freelance groom. He/she should come with experience, references and her own insurance. He/she should also be paid around £10 an hour but an experienced groom will get through the work much more quickly (and safely) than a working pupil who should be supervised most of the time. Mistakes by inexperienced grooms can be hair-raising, costly and sometimes tragic. In my time (don't ask), you could go to an equine employment agency to find the groom you needed.

 

[Annagain]

It seems to me you might be looking for a student on holiday from an equine course at college or uni to come for a summer "work placement" rather than being a working pupil (which to me would be a longer term thing)

In those circumstances, I think what you're offering is reasonable (if it was a working pupil situation I would expect some payment to be offered). It's no different to the internships offered by big law or financial firms etc over the summer. The only issue (with both) is whether students can afford to do it or whether they need a paying job to earn some funds to go back to uni so you may only get someone with well off paretns who can support them. Nothing wrong with this, but if I was in your position I'd want to try to give a leg up to someone who might not otherwise get a chance.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Is that NMW for an apprentice, ie £3.30 p/h?

Yes, we have recently taken on 2 apprentices at work for the 1st time in 2 years.
Both 16 yr olds from school. The boss gives them a bit of pocket money if they work on Saturdays to make up for low wages (if they want to work them)

 

[HeresHoping]

It seems to me you might be looking for a student on holiday from an equine course at college or uni to come for a summer "work placement" rather than being a working pupil (which to me would be a longer term thing)

In those circumstances, I think what you're offering is reasonable (if it was a working pupil situation I would expect some payment to be offered). It's no different to the internships offered by big law or financial firms etc over the summer. The only issue (with both) is whether students can afford to do it or whether they need a paying job to earn some funds to go back to uni so you may only get someone with well off paretns who can support them. Nothing wrong with this, but if I was in your position I'd want to try to give a leg up to someone who might not otherwise get a chance.

Thank you annagain. This is the route I think I will persue. My friend is on her own and building up her business, so outgoings do not need to equate to borrowings. I am on the phone to BHS as I write to make sure everything is above board.

 

[EmmasMummy]

back in 1997 I was an 'agricultural apprentice'. I got lessons on the studs horses, no livery etc, but I took home 81p an hour.

 

[SO1]

I think unless someone is wanting to get some work experience over the school holidays then I think you will find it difficult to get someone.

Wondering how this also applies to riding schools who often have helpers in the school holidays and weekends who help out in return for lessons.

Thank you for your responses.

There is a deal of assumption that the yard in question already employs other staff. I am not sure how tax avoidance is an issue when no one is avoiding an income?

What if the person offering a working pupil position was not currently an employer? I.e. they are a sole trader but seeking additional assistance over a period of 6 - 8 weeks? That falls under the 1 year minimum for apprenticeships.
Hypothetically, what if they were offering this working pupil status in return for mucking out 4 horses, turning out and bringing in 6 days per week, and the quid pro quo was ffering free livery and 3 lessons per week plus competition travel if required? Which would amount to fees in kind of £180/week. And it's not some lower level rider, either.

And, if employers all have to follow the rules (I am aware of these, I work for a law firm), how are universities and colleges requiring 'work experience' hours going to get their students into roles?

Thank you again, though. I'm talking to our employment department about apprenticeships.

 

[SO1]

You have to be careful with internships as they have to be properly organized with a training program, they are not meant to cover a role that would normally be done by a paid employee. It is also standard to pay them travel expenses and give them an allowance to cover lunch.

We looked at getting an intern to cover a role when someone went on a 6 month secondment but we could not do so because it was a customer service role and the person would be covering what would normally be a paid role.

Work experience is very different as this is often organized by the school or university and often the person doing the work experience gets more out it than the person offering the work experience. We have work experience people come into my work and it is quite hard to manage as they need to get something out of it, you can't just get them to do photocopying or open post and need constant supervision.

Effectively what is being offered is an internship which does not require payment in the eyes of the law. Look at what the media industry expects in London from their fully qualified interns to get a foot on the ladder.
I think the big thing is that potentially some better candidates for the role will be put off if there is little or no money attached to it.

 

[ester]

I think unless someone is wanting to get some work experience over the school holidays then I think you will find it difficult to get someone.

Wondering how this also applies to riding schools who often have helpers in the school holidays and weekends who help out in return for lessons.

Riding schools these days often run a 'helpers club' to stay within the law. Otherwise they are subject to child employment laws. Not so much in my day, £5 a day and free rides in the holidays , oh and my social life

 

[Polar Bear9]

I would be reasonably interested in this sort of position BUT... As its only short term then I'd have to hand in notice at my current yard or pay for livery there while I had my horse at the WP yard. On no wage or apprentice wage that would be impossible.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

You could employ a temporary worker. I don't mean a freelance but an employee. This is often done with office or factory workers through an employment agency and there may be something similar for the equestrian industry but temporary workers can also be employed direct by the employer, you would advertise in the same way as for a permanent job. The minimum wage for young people is, I believe, lower than that for proper adults (over 21?) so if you don't mind someone possibly in their first job and needing supervision generally as well as the specific on-the-job training, this might work for you. There are also often government run schemes involving the jobcentre where if you take on someone who has been out of work for 6mths or more, there is a one off payment to you for doing so. Last I heard I think it was about £1000. I suppose you run the risk of getting someone who doesn't really want to work, but there are lots of people who do want to work but just can't find a job. As the employer you get to choose who, the jobcentre doesn't pick them.