Gastric Ulcer Help (again)

[TPO]

I *think* my gelding has gastric ulcers and I'm not sure what to do.

There is a big long story about him, only had him since March, but in short I have a referal to the vet hospital but I can't get him to load.

Is there anything I can do just now at home to ease any discomfort and treat any possible ulcers while we work on loading?

He is a 16.3hh 7yo TB and is currently fed 2x a day on 350g hi-fi, 1.5kg baileys no.4, Pink Powder and mint. He has adlib hay which is now fed through a net to last longer as he's on box rest. He was in poor condition when I bought him (490kg) but was up to 560kg (at 530kg now as on box rest and stressed some of it off plus increased cribbing), he can be sensitive to touch over his stomach, is slow off your leg ridden, his stomach makes lots of gurgling noises, cribs and can be very ill tempered.

Would feeding gastroguard/colligone/neigh lox heal any possible ulcers? What would you recommend? I can't really talk to my vet as he thinks I'm over-reacting as said horse hasn't coliced or shown any signs of colic hence my referal (that I can't get to

)

Feel stuck in limbo so any help or advice appreciated until we crack this loading issue.

Thank you

 

[SpottedCat]

You really need him scoped to get a diagnosis and appropriate treatment - the treatment depends on the type of ulcers etc. My vet has a portable endoscope so can do yard visits to diagnose - is this not an opinion?

Coligone will have short term benefits but does not remain in the stomach, gastrogard is prohibatively expensive (approx £950 for a 30 day supply) and prescription only, so you need your vet to prescribe it. Neighlox is good but is a preventative supplement not a cure (same with coligone) - they are antacids which change the pH of the stomach for a short time whereas gastrogard is a proton pump inhibitor so stops the acid being produced.

My horse had one month of gastrogard, antepsin and pepto bismol, and is now on a month of antibiotics and gastrogard because the ulcers in the lower part of the stomach were not helped at all by the first month of treatment so have another cause.

If you can't get someone to come out to you, tyr ringing Willesley Equine Vets - whilst I doubt their ulcer specialist comes as far as Scotland, he might just know of someone who will travel to you with an endoscope.

BTW I hope your horse is insured, this has been eyewateringly expensive, I've racked up over £2K in fees so far, ouch!

No idea why your vet thinks colic is a 'required' symptom - my horse showed no symptoms beyond suddenly not wanting to SJ - he was fine XC and fine on the flat, lost no weight etc etc, just loss of performance.

 

[MistletoeMegan]

Gastroguard is prescription only so whilst that would be effective if he does have ulcers, that would have to wait until you can get him to the hospital to be scoped.

I have had a lot of success with Coligone, in conjunction to a high-fibre diet; my lad never really showed any symptoms until times of stress when he ran up like a hat rack - he is a very acidic horse, so I used the Coligone to work on excess acid, rather than healing existing ulcers, which is what Gastroguard would do.

Until you get him to the hospital, I would put him on Coligone (possibly the liquid for the first few days and then the powder as the powder is more cost effective) and then change the diet. Whilst Baileys No. 4 is barley-free it does contain cereal, which I would aim to cut out completely until you get a diagnosis. A good-quality chaff, with vits and mins, should be the base of the diet; you can use just an alfalfa chaff such as Greengold, Dengie Alfa-A, Dodson and Horrell's Alfalfa etc, or an alfalfa/straw chaff such as the Hi-Fi he's on, D&H Fibergy (lovely stuff, it is what I'm using atm and has added mint and soya oil) etc. Unmolassed sugar beet is another good source of fibre.

Depending on his workload, you may need to add oil to his feed to up his energy intake.

So basically, I would stick him on Coligone, cut out grain and feed lots and lots of good-quality fibre - I can't imagine you could really heal the ulcers if they are bad, but constant access to good forage will help control the excess acid that can lead to ulcers.

 

[TPO]

thank you for the offer, I have pm'd you.

Is cribbing a sympton of ulcers?

My vet doesn't have a long enough endoscope to do it at my yard so that is why I got the referal.

I was told that he is a poor doer so what could I feed him to get/keep condition on? He was doing well on one feed a day but he has stressed some weight off with being on box rest the past 3wks; hence upping it to 2x feeds a day. I tried oil before but it didn't work for him; it was introduced very slowly and gradually but it gave him the squits

 

[MistletoeMegan]

The issues with getting him to keep weight on are probably due to the ulcers - if his gut isn't functioning properly than he won't be able to utilise the nutrients from his feed fully.

I use TopSpec balancer for condition without fizz, but mine is a glorified lawnmower at the moment so this possibly wouldn't be the right choice for your chap as it might not provide him with enough calories. I would suggest trying alfalfa with speedibeet or alphabeet, and hopefully this with the Coligone should see him picking up weight-wise.

 

[TPO]

thanks H's mum. I remember that post, I hope George is still doing well and that Flying Tackle is ok. If I remember rightly she (and her sister?) got quite a hard time.

My gelding has put on weight (gradually) with me from 490kg -560kg. He's a 16.3hh TB. He's dropped weight recently but I put that down to being on box rest. I'm just worried about dropping no.4 from his diet and that he will drop condition then. I tried winergy before and he didn't do well on it.

He's not in work either due to his leg and previous to that my lack of time. He's going up for sale once he's been scoped (and treated if needed) so I will be bringing him back into work once he's off box rest and he might need additional calories then.

Thank you

 

[TGM]

Here is an H&H article on ulcers and their management:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/horsecare/1370/122932.html

There is another interesting article here:

http://www.kohnkesown.com/ulcers.pdf

Some of it plugs the author's own Gastro-Coat product, but there is also a lot of general advice on managing ulcers.

You will see the advice is to feed as much fibre as possible and to reduce or eliminate grain (cereals) from the diet. I would try and feed him as much hay as possible - this will help increase his condition and help the ulcers - so stop netting it to slow down his consumption! Hay is usually the cheapest source of calories for poor doers (aside from grazing), so the more you feed of that the less costly bucket feed you will need.

Baileys No 4 contains wheat, so I would look for an alternative if you want to avoid cereals. You need to learn to read feed labels carefully - some feeds marketed as non-heating or high fibre or barley/oat free still contain cereals. There is a post about this in this link, which also has suggestions for cereal-free foods:

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php?Number=3675893

 

[TPO]

Thank you TGM

I've read the Kohnesown paper before and I'm sure it advises double netting to slow down eating/make the hay last longer? He was fed from the floor but just pooed in it and wasted it. He's not got a haybar as I feel that would just be another surface to crib off. I'm a bit confused as to what to do for best. He does like his net and attacks it with gusto whereas hay on the floor he just walks over and pulls through his bed

Thank you for the link to ceral free feeds.

 

[TGM]

[ QUOTE ]
I've read the Kohnesown paper before and I'm sure it advises double netting to slow down eating/make the hay last longer?

[/ QUOTE ] That's because a lot of horses would otherwise get too fat when fed ad lib hay so you want to slow the rate they eat at, whereas you've said that your boy has started to drop weight on box rest, so you would want to maximise his hay intake.

[ QUOTE ]
He was fed from the floor but just pooed in it and wasted it. He's not got a haybar as I feel that would just be another surface to crib off.

[/ QUOTE ] If you have to feed in a net to stop wastage, then that is a different story! It is just that from your first post it sounded like the only reason you were feeding from a net was to slow down his hay consumption, which would be counter-productive in terms of weight gain.

I wouldn't double net it though - unless you feel he is starting to put on too much weight.

 

[TPO]

Sorry, didn't word it properly

He's actually eating more now it's netted instead of dragging it through his bed.

Thank you for your help and advice

 

[annahardy]

hi all of these posts sound so familiar - my 5 y o gelding has been lacking in performance and unable to keep any condition on for the past 18 months. He now on a course of gastrogard and i have changed his feeding from 101 supplements and conditioning mix by the bucket load to 4-3kgs of Winergy Equilibrium Growth which has completely turned him around hes a whole different horse!