Gastric Ulcers......advice/help please.

[Perfect_Pirouette]

Okay, so my horse went to the vets on Friday and he has suspected gastric ulcers, or put another way he MAY have gastric ulcers.

In fact, the more the days pass the more I’m convinced he has. He hasn’t been scoped yet though.

I am looking for advice/recommendations etc from people on any supplements, products, diet changes etc that help horses with ulcers.

I know GG is obviously the medication/treatment needed but as I say, he hasn’t been scoped yet and may not be able to for another few weeks so any suggestions in the meantime are much appreciated.

Thanks

 

[ellie_e]

Lots of fibre! Try and cut out all hard/cereal out of the diet. Feedmark have a good supplement for ulcers, maybe worth reading up about that. Good luck with the scope, its not a very nice procedure but at least you'l have some answers.

 

[YasandCrystal]

If you want to test to see the likelihood of him having ulcers I would suggest you give him 7 Rantacidine twice a day in a forage feed.
Then feed him a forage feed 10 minutes before you ride or girth up and you may see an improvement if he has ulcers as the Rantacidine and the forage will bring some temporary relief. You can try the same using a cup of limestone flour too over a few days period twice a day to the same effect. None of these 'cure ' the ulcers they just mask them.

An ulcer friendly diet is very similar to a barefoot diet - no sugar/molasses/haylage/apples. Adlib forage in the form of hay/alfalfa. Alfalfa is helpful due to high calcium levels. As much turnout as possible and as little stress as possible. My horse had ulcers due to pain from another serious condition. If you can get to the bottom of why the horse has ulcers in the first place. Always give forage before ridden work. People swear by Feedmark's Ulcer calm and there is another they do for stressy horses which again is helpful for cibbers and ulcer prone, but the name eludes me for now.
This website is very informative:
http://www.lunatunesfreestyles.com/horse_ulcers.htm

 

[ArcticFox]

If you want to test to see the likelihood of him having ulcers I would suggest you give him 7 Rantacidine twice a day in a forage feed.
Then feed him a forage feed 10 minutes before you ride or girth up and you may see an improvement if he has ulcers as the Rantacidine and the forage will bring some temporary relief. You can try the same using a cup of limestone flour too over a few days period twice a day to the same effect. None of these 'cure ' the ulcers they just mask them.

An ulcer friendly diet is very similar to a barefoot diet - no sugar/molasses/haylage/apples. Adlib forage in the form of hay/alfalfa. Alfalfa is helpful due to high calcium levels. As much turnout as possible and as little stress as possible. My horse had ulcers due to pain from another serious condition. If you can get to the bottom of why the horse has ulcers in the first place. Always give forage before ridden work. People swear by Feedmark's Ulcer calm and there is another they do for stressy horses which again is helpful for cibbers and ulcer prone, but the name eludes me for now.
This website is very informative:
http://www.lunatunesfreestyles.com/horse_ulcers.htm

I'm guessing you mean ranitidine?

Unfortunately horses are totally different to people. They have an odd layout for their stomach. The gut lining has a non glandular region at the top and glandular at the bottom. Basically the oesophageal lining (which has no gut protectant cells) continues into the top part of the stomach. The bottom part has the gut mucous producing cells so has better protection from stomach acid.

using ranitidine will be pretty ineffective in a horse - this is an antacid (like alot of feed supplements) which will neutralise the stomach acid - like it does with people. The difference with us and horses is that we only produce acid when we are eating so neutralising the acid helps us. With horses they produce 2 litres (think a large coke bottle) of acid per hour so the ranitidine will only neutralise the acid in the stomach at the time you give it. so within a short period this will be useless.

It might be worth trying ranitidine prior to riding. although a small handful of chaff just before you ride is worth doing as it sits on the top of the acid reduces splashes onto the non glandular region where ulcers may occur.

If your horse has ulcers - in glandular (these take much longer to heal) and non glandular then they will require GG treatment.

GG is a product called Omeprazole. It is not available as a feed supplement, and afaik isn't available from a different manufacturer (perhaps imported? but that is illegal). Omeprazole is a proton pump inhibitor, this works by reducing the amount of acid produced so allowing the ulcers to heal.

I would say it is worth asking for a scope to be done imho.

Good luck, the best thing about ulcers is that they are treatable.

X

Useful website: http://www.equinegastriculcers.co.uk/ shows pictures of the stomach and ulcers.

 

[Hedwards]

I went through this with my new horse. I havent actually ended up having him scoped...

His behaviour changed like someone flicked a switch, and culminated in us parting company... and me loosing my confidence with him.

I spoke to my vets and we agreed initially, as we believed it was related to stress, to try him on an off the shelf supplement and see what happened.

He was already out 24/7, and being fed fast fibre which is a good diet, but I popped him onto Feedmark Ulcer Calm, and also Alltech Lifeforce (the lifeforce primarily as an alround vit&min supplement), and due to him turning his nose up at the FF, i have added Dengie Health Tummy to his diet. He's still out 24/7, with ok grazing but plenty of haylage put out twice a day.

He was on this for a fortnight, and I decided to get back on... and since then he has been absolutely fantastic, his behaviour is brilliant and he's never gone better for me to ride. he is fine to girth/groom and has no reaction to any of the pressure points.

I have lowered the ulcer calm to once a day, and have seen no change in his behaviour, and may well wean him right off to see what happens, if he gets worse, I will get him scoped and onto GG, if not, I will leave him and see how we get on.

Before I ride, he gets a bucket of the Dengie Healthy Tummy on its own, and other then that, i dont treat him any differently...

Good luck op

 

[YasandCrystal]

I'm guessing you mean ranitidine?

Unfortunately horses are totally different to people. They have an odd layout for their stomach. The gut lining has a non glandular region at the top and glandular at the bottom. Basically the oesophageal lining (which has no gut protectant cells) continues into the top part of the stomach. The bottom part has the gut mucous producing cells so has better protection from stomach acid.

using ranitidine will be pretty ineffective in a horse - this is an antacid (like alot of feed supplements) which will neutralise the stomach acid - like it does with people. The difference with us and horses is that we only produce acid when we are eating so neutralising the acid helps us. With horses they produce 2 litres (think a large coke bottle) of acid per hour so the ranitidine will only neutralise the acid in the stomach at the time you give it. so within a short period this will be useless.

It might be worth trying ranitidine prior to riding. although a small handful of chaff just before you ride is worth doing as it sits on the top of the acid reduces splashes onto the non glandular region where ulcers may occur.

I beg to differ AF. My vet advised the Ranitidine test! I did say it does NOT cure - will only indicate the possibility of ulcers.

 

[ArcticFox]

7 ranitidine tablets would not be effective.

you need to give 44 tablets to a 500kg for it to be useful in any way at all.

Guess we will not agree on this one.

http://rules.britishhorseracing.com/Orders-and-rules&staticID=126865&depth=2

 

[Perfect_Pirouette]

He is currently fed:

1 scoop of Power and Performance, 1 large scoop of Honeychop with garlic twice daily. I put oil in his feed and for the past 8 days he has had 2 scoops of Naf Gastri Aid, however symptoms haven't improved. I was told on Sat though that Gastri Aid is useless and is basically the bargain basement ulcer supplement. Instead I was recommended Equine America's ulcer calm is it? Or gastro calm or something?

Basically, like you Hedwards, I want to hopefully get an indication of ulcers first if possible before scoping.

 

[Holidays_are_coming]

I agree with arctic fox, you have to give lots of ranitidine tablets for it to be effective.

The only treatment is ompeprazole but constant access to fibre, hay rather than haylage, decrease in stressful situations (if I remember correctly you have moved him recently this could be a trigger).

 

[Holidays_are_coming]

I'd get rid of the power and performance if you need energy or condition try either cool stance copra or a Sarecen product for ulcer/horses that tie up. Also change the honey chop for alfalfa it helps to neutralise the stomach acid!

 

[Holidays_are_coming]

Sorry cant edit on my phone it's called Saracen relieve, I think ps has cs on it and its going well!

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

yes!

get rid of the P+P and swap to saracen re-leve, its high energy but ulcer friendly.


cant imagine the honey chop has any value so swap for alfa a or alfa a oil which is better for ulcers and energy.

only GG or straight omeprazole will heal, but ive had super results with Egusin SLH for after care, best one ive tried on CS (feedmark ulcer calm is one of the better budget ones).

 

[SpottedCat]

SS - the symptoms of ulcers are so varied that whatever you do you may not get an indication by changing feed/supplements first. For example my retired horse's only symptom was chipping in at combination fences - and he was already fed an entirely fibre diet and was turned out 24/7 at the time.

Scoping really isn't expensive and can be done at your yard. It was only about £130ish when I last had it done, which in the grand scheme of horse owning is nothing!

If you really think it is ulcers, get him scoped asap - the problem is that if it is and you don't sort it, then it can lead to long term issues which take a great deal of time to resolve - it took a long time to get my boy back SJ properly again, I don't think he was ever quite the same horse, and I spent a fortune with a pro rider. If there hadn't been such a delay in diagnosing my horse his performance would never have deteriorated to the point it did.

 

[Hedwards]

Oh, and i forgot to say he gets Micronised linseed too...

I have no idea what the P&P or the honeychop are like, but you basically want low starch & low sugar, FF and/or Alfa-a or similar would be a perfect base, I like to use FF to bulk the feed out as its inexpensive (plus its what i feed my retired mare so buy it anyway). Alfalfa is a really good 'buffer', so anything high in that would be good, but be warned, some horses do react to it, I'm lucky and my boy doesnt...

 

[Perfect_Pirouette]

Right, okay I am writing all this down thanks.

Right, I need to get a 2nd opinion from another vets then as I was quoted a lot more than that on Fri, christ if thats the case I'd have him scoped tomorrow.

 

[SpottedCat]

Your insurance should cover it anyway - the only reason I thought the cost was relevant is if they're not insured!

 

[Tr0uble]

When I had Snip scoped it cost £130. That was about 4 years ago now but i can't imagine it will be THAT much more now.

No amount of diet and management change will fully help if the horse does have ulcers until you have actually cured them, and the only way to do that is Omeprazole. GG being the only licensed form of that in this country.

If you are insured, then get scoped, get a claim form, and the insurance will pay out on Gastrogard...easiest way.

After that, the diet and management are the most important part. There are many supplements, you will need some trial and error to get the right one for your horse, but general rules are to keep stress to a minimum, cut out sugar and starch wherever possible...high fibre feeds, and small, long fibre feeds before and after riding as these will form a barrier that will stop/reduce acid splashes.

Adding liquid oil (unfortunatley micronised linseed won't do the same job) is great for giving a coating in the stomach, thicker oils like soya or corn are ideal.

Alfalfa feeds (as mentioned in an above post) are great as they help with calcium levels and neutralising the stomach acid.

There are also herbal things you can feed like marshmallow root, liquorice root, Slippery Elm, but there are so many good ready made supplements now that you are probably best to start with those.

Be careful with things like worming, giving bute, anything that could upset the stomach balance. Whenever Snip hurt himself (regularly) I put him on Metacam rather than bute, as it was kinder to his stomach.

Also, look into physio....Snip used to hold himself rigid and therefore pull small muscles regularly and was really tight. Bowen and physio really helped with that side of things.

 

[Perfect_Pirouette]

Insurance wouldn't cover the scope anyway as my excess is £350!!

Okay, well I will see if I can get hold of any of the above mentioned products asap and get him on some. I'll ring vets re scoping too.

 

[galaxy]

There is a link between garlic and ulcers so if theres a concern I would cut out the garlic

I know you said you excess is £350, but the scope is for the same problem that you had him looked for last week isn't it? So if you combine the bills it must be over the excess?

 

[Perfect_Pirouette]

There is a link between garlic and ulcers so if theres a concern I would cut out the garlic

I know you said you excess is £350, but the scope is for the same problem that you had him looked for last week isn't it? So if you combine the bills it must be over the excess?

Haven't had the bill for last week yet and ulcers wearn't investigated on Fri, just his lameness.

 

[galaxy]

Haven't had the bill for last week yet and ulcers wearn't investigated on Fri, just his lameness.

Could you not get your vet to class is as performance issues? Wasn't his main symptom issues tacking up? That could be caused by lameness (remembered pain) and ulcers. I'd have a chat with your vet. You didn't know he was lame when he was taken in did you?

 

[TPO]

To get my horse scoped was £230-240ish iirc and that was in June of 2012.

He was on a course of GG and since he was already on a fibre diet (as described by others above A-A Oil, speedibeet & linseed). I put him on Feedmarks Ulcercalm for approx 3mths after the GG finished.

TBH I don't think the ulcers were affecting him and therefore have not noticed a difference. He is an ex-racer so expected to have them but he'd never shown any signs and he was only scoped as vets drew a blank on another issue so she was clutching at straws and didn't do any follow up <roll eyes>.

Worrying the vet that done the scoping was advising feed with cereals and molasses in it (baileys no.6 iirc)...

I feed the same but have stopped the Ulcercalm and use Equine Answers 365 as my GP supplement now along with mint.

 

[The Bouncing Bog Trotter]

A friend who works on one of the big TB studs has used Aloequine in the past for horses with ulcers. He uses it to help horses that are scoped as having ulcers and also as a preventative medication especially prior to sales prep. I just checked out the website and his stud is one of the ones that provided a testimonial.

 

[Perfect_Pirouette]

Could you not get your vet to class is as performance issues? Wasn't his main symptom issues tacking up? That could be caused by lameness (remembered pain) and ulcers. I'd have a chat with your vet. You didn't know he was lame when he was taken in did you?

Yes, trying to get hold of vets now. Nope, didn't know about the lameness. Though it was lunged on a circle on concrete so I don't suppose I would've noticed.

 

[wench]

What is the treatment/further diganosis going to be with the lameness...

 

[Perfect_Pirouette]

What is the treatment/further diganosis going to be with the lameness...

Well bute trial to see whether the lameness is causing the tacking up issues. If not,then think we can safely go down ulcer route. Re lameness, again, trying to get hold of vet now but on Fri I asked whether they would want him in for x rays/ nerve blocks etc and they said no, first route of treatment would be physio and probably lots of pole work and the like to try and strengthen the muscles as apparently he is unlevel behind slightly. He basically doesn't track up as much with that right hind as he does with the left and if you look closely you can see that he hops into the stride a bit on that foot.

 

[galaxy]

Yes, trying to get hold of vets now. Nope, didn't know about the lameness. Though it was lunged on a circle on concrete so I don't suppose I would've noticed.

I definitly think you should be able to get it in under one claim then. You just need to tell you vet your plan so they fill the form out correctly.

 

[wench]

If it was me I would be wanting nerve blocks/x-rays to see whats going off (if anything).

 

[YasandCrystal]

My horse had suspected ulcers and following an ranitidine (high strength) for 2 days trial he improved marginally, so we had him scoped and he was found to have only a few low grade ulcers. These were treated with a month on GG and turned away.

We and the vet knew immediately though that these low grade ulcers were not bad enough to be causing all his issues and were likely symtomatic of something far worse, so further investigations followed. He was sent to Sue Dyson's lameness clinic where she diagnosed chronic SI dysfunction and we got LOU for him.

 

[Holidays_are_coming]

If u suspect ulcers you really should be using danilon, my vets really were not happy even trying danilon when we needed to try and see if we had a lameness issue, I was only aloud to use it for 2-3 days max at 2 a day.