Gastric ulcers are driving me crazy can anyone shed any light please

Holidays_are_coming

Holidays_are_coming

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My mare was diagnosed with ulcers in march this year, after 3 months of symptoms very mild colic and nappyness, and not liking jumping spreads. She was scoped and treated with gastrogard, after a month they were much improved so we kept going and she has been fine all summer on ulcer calm, lethicin full turnout with extra hay when needed.

She came in overnight in the middle of November, she was on half dose gastrogard for 2 weeks the problem is she doesn't really like it so she doesn't eat her food well. Last wed she displayed the signs again so called the vet, her heart rate was normal, I have now separated her she has hay all day a slice of haylage when she comes in and she is on succeed (doesn't like that much either) she is on full dose gg.

She doesn't appear stressed, the only trigger I can think of is last sat she was on the horseboxes for 4 hrs (with hay) when it was very windy (so I had to shut all the doors). Vet is completely at a loss of what to do as we are treating her already she hasn't had any ridden symptoms yet. The insurance will only pay till the 6th jan so I need to sort this out ASAP!!!

Any ideas please???????
 
What did the scoping show?

Has the vet discussed the possibility of the ulcers being caused by bacterial infection with you?

I'm a bit confused as to why GG would make her go off her food since you syringe it in - what feed is she on?

I'd swap the haylage for hay - haylage can make some horses worse.

I'm really confused by your post - you say she hasn't had any ridden symptoms yet but she is displaying signs again - but your original description of her signs are all ones you'd only see under saddle!
 
The scoping showed grade 3 ulcers, she is showing the mild colic sign not ridden symptoms. You can not syringe anything down her throat so it has to be mixed in her feed (vets agree this is the only option with my mare). She is on a high fibre diet of alfabeet and balancer, she loves the haylage and only has a little to encourage her to eat some forage when she comes in at night, she has a massive barn with loads of room to walk about.
 
Were they splash or glandular or both?

You do know that feeding GG with feed makes it less effective I guess? Hence advice is usually to give it at least 30mins before feed.

What have you tried to make the feed more palatable? Apple juice? Grated Carrot? (needs to be grated as otherwise they pick the chunks out - I bought an electric grater for about £10 from argos). Have you tried a different feed? Mine became fussy after ulcers but when I tried Pure Feeds he ditched his normal feed of speedibeet/topspec balancer/mollichaff high fibre alfalfa to mug me for the sample, and will eat anything mixed with it!

Have the vets discussed the possibility of bacterial infection causing the ulcers?
 
My horse was a nightmare with anything syringed into his mouth. When it came to the gastroguard he actually would stand quietly for it as he new he had to have that before he would get fed. I would persevere otherwise that is a lot of money wasted if it just gets pushed around the the feed bowl and not eaten. Have you tried one of those wormer bits?

You say your horse gets a slice of haylage when she comes in for the night and only has a little to encourage her to eat forage. Does she get adlib hay at night also?
 
Holidays_are_coming said:
The scoping showed grade 3 ulcers, she is showing the mild colic sign not ridden symptoms. You can not syringe anything down her throat so it has to be mixed in her feed (vets agree this is the only option with my mare). She is on a high fibre diet of alfabeet and balancer, she loves the haylage and only has a little to encourage her to eat some forage when she comes in at night, she has a massive barn with loads of room to walk about.
Click to expand...

What grade ulcers did she have?

I couldn't give my horse GG via syringe, when he was scoped with ulcers, so I put it into apple quarters and hollowed half carrots. You do not get much paste in the GG tube!! I would not be feeding haylage to an ulcer prone horse. Mine is on adlib hay and I switched his feed to cereal and sugar intolerant feed also on the advice of a holistic vet. The only supplemnent I now feed to guard against ulcers is a generous cup of micronised linseed every day.
I did have an episode a couple of months ago where my horse showed 'gutty behaviour' and upon consulting my vet she guessed that the fallen acorns he had taken a liking to and an intake of apples provided by my help had caused this. I put him on gut cleanse of green clay 2 tablespoons a day for 2 weeks then a 2 week break (the break is vital for this to work effectively)and then 2 tblspns a day for a further 2 weeks and also 1 tablespoon daily of chlorella for the entire period with no break. You could try this - these herbs/clay are inexpensive online (Bentonite clay is very similar and easier to source than green clay). This regime apparently restores the fauna in the hindgut that GG always kills off. The action of GG is to shut down the acid pumps in the stomach to enable the ulcers to heal. This means that undigested food is passing through the hindgut and I am told (by my vet) that this kills off the fauna/bacteria in the hindgut and without intervention this will not restore itself - hence this clay and chlorella regime. Hope this is helpful.
Have you understood why your horse had ulcers in the first place? My horses were caused by him being in great pain.
 
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I've tried most things I can think of!! She drives me crazy so fussy!!! In tge summer I ended up coring apples and injecting it in there mixed with molasses will have to try that again and get someone else to feed her it

She had splash and glandular no-one has said anything about a bacterial infection they just think its due to her personality!
 
Ok, well if the GG hasn't sorted them I would be pushing my vet to speak to a vet who has experience of dealing with bacterial infections causing ulcers! My horse had a month of GG which cleared up the splash ones but had no effect on the glandular ones. He then had to have a month of GG and a month of antibiotics to fix the glandular ones. He was also on pepto-bismol and antepsin tablets as well - assume your horse has at least been on antepsin? This binds to the surface of the ulcers and makes them much less painful.

I think if this has been going on for a year and scoping has shown the ulcers are not clearing up on the GG regime/are recurring, I'd be wanting my vet to discuss this with someone with experience of bacterial infection being the problem. It requires a very specific antibiotic, so assuming your vet isn't aware of this being a possible cause I think they probably would benefit from seeking a second opinion.
 
That's fine - I am simply offering another possible explanation for why she could have them. If you don't want to look into it as a possibility, no worries :) Of course, she could be sharp and responsive because of the pain from the ulcers....

My horse isn't a dope on a rope, and has always been grumpy and irritable, which hasn't changed, but he was the same re spread fences, and he needed antibiotics to clear up the ulcers once and for all. He's now fine. You're running short of time unless you are prepared to keep paying for GG out of your own pocket, so surely it is worth discussing the possibility with your vet and asking him to have a chat to the vet who did a lot of the clinical research into this?!
 
She was rescoped after a month on gg and they had pretty much cleared up apart from a few little marks from tge splash ones, she has had no symptoms for over 6 months, it appears winter doesn't agree with her!!!

I've just been to check on her and she is happily stuffing her guts with hay!

She gets adlib hay at all times!!
 
One on this yard had glandular ulcers these did not clear until treated by antibiotics.
I also had one that had no risk factors for ulcers looked amazing but we could not get rid of them.
Ulcers are one of those things that veterinary science does not yet fully understand.
If you have not done so I would get your horse scoped before the insurance runs out.
 
One point to raise, is the ulcers can often be a secondary symptom rather than the primary issue. This could explain why the ulcers cleared up well initially with gg and yet the symptoms have returned even though your horse is still happily muching hay? Pain in the foot would give the signs of not wanting to jump spreads, drops etc which could also be easily explained by having ulcers.
 
Totally feel your pain a liveries mare has been treated and her insurance runs out in January too.

She was rescoped last month and was showing signs again, she had both splash and glandular ulcers grade 3 treated with gg and antibiotics, it took 3 treatments of gg to totally clear them. Last month she went back onto a quarter of a syringe of gg and is now clear again, my vet advises to try and prevent them coming back not bed on straw as this can irrate an ulcer horse, adlib hay at all times including bringing in to feed hay through summe, restrict grass intake feed only dry hay, damp or soaked hay is no good as it will not absorb the acid, avoid haylage, no cereals or sugars in feeds hi fibre only, 30 minutes of hay minimum prior to exercise, high fibre feed too and give 3 marshmallows prior to getting on (these apparently absorb excess acid in the stomach).
 
Not heard the marshmallow thing I was told to give large double handful of Alfa A mixed with a little corn oil and water just before work ie immediately before tacking up.
not as much fun as marshmallows and no chance of me eating Alfa A when things are not going well.
 
I can't imagine how gelatine and sugar would help mop up any excess acid:rolleyes: I too feed my ulcer prone boy a scoop ful of alfalfa before anywork - it cettainly helps:)

The management of ulcers/ulcer prone horses is as important as treating them I think.

Have a read on here for a different option but one that does help/work with ulcer management

http://www.aloequine.com/
 
That was my first comment when he said about marshmallows, but he insists the benefits far outway the negatives with them, so we are trying it, time will tell if they are helping or not.
 
We have a horse That had ulcers and he had gastroguard until the insurance ran out.
we now feed him a charcoal supplement made by fine fettle feeds- happy tummy and he looks better than ever.
A friend of mines dog has been suffering with terrible ibs and Was under the Vet. She fed it the charcoal and the ibs symptoms went within 48hrs.
Worth a try.
 
Definatley, she is such a fussy eater, I have put her gg in apples and a friend is giving it to her as if it's from me it must be poisoned, she gets adlib hay at all times and never runs out! And she is fed before work Alfa beet but because she had been having gg in it she has be refusing to eat it, do fingers crossed she will start again now!

I'm going to cut the haylage out and see how she goes it was only a small slice of horse hage and she seemed to enjoy it but I want to stop these ASAP, will also speak to the vet again today ( he is going to be sick of me soon)
 
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