Gastric ulcers - are symptoms the same in every case?

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BeckyD

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The reason I ask is that all the time I have had Ronnie, I have been convinced that he has ulcers. He really was skinny - dnagerously so, for so long. The vet thought it was just his age and background (now rising 6, ex-racer). I feed Ronnie every supplement under the sun for fattening, condition and coat shine, and he has now filled out considerably (18 months later). He also has a glossy coat. But, he has the following:

* Really doesn't like being tacked up, having his girth done up etc. Saddler and physio baffled, every precaution taken and saddle fits like a dream.
* VERY grumpy, stressed-acting, stallion-like.
* Bites, constantly. Especially when being groomed, touched on the tummy/back region. If he can't bite me, he bites/chews other things. Eats haynets (the nylon ones) if left with them. Seems desperate to have things in his mouth.
* Backwards-thinking to ride (normally).

He has had an SI injury in the last few months, but his behaviour has been crabby for a very long time.
 
Soubds very possible... lots of symptoms and different in every horse... mine used to "play" with his tongue alot... if you want to be sure get him scoped
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much less stressful than I thought it was going to be!
 
It certainly sounds like he's showing symptoms associated with gastric ulcers
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The only way you can find out for definite is by having him scoped though.
Kate x
 
Hey Hun,
I know you have suggested it to your vet and had it dismissed before.... but your gut instinct is there for a reason! DEMAND the vet scopes him if you are still wondering about it.
I stick with my original query over it - he does sound a very typical case
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I think if you have him scoped then you will at least know one way or the other, and treatment for EGUS wouldn't set you back on your SI rehab program at all.
PM if you need to blurgh!
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X
 
I have to say if I hadn't seen him looking so well I'd say he was very typical of a horse with ulcers, especially considering his background.
It wouldn't hurt to get him scoped anyway?
 
The best thing to do is ask your vet for a course of omeprazole and/or sucralfate. Omeprazole reduces the acid secretions in the stomach, and sucralfate forms a nice protective barrier - see if this improves his condition over a couple of weeks. If it does, it's more than likely he has ulcers, if no difference, then it's up to you if you want to investigate further or just accept he's a bit grumpy! It's an easier way to diagnose than having to starve him to scope him.
 
Also, if you do scope him, its still not 100% accurate - if you think about all the little crevices in their stomach and trying to look at it all through a little camera! But, as the others have said above, do it if it will help put your mind at rest.
 
He sounds exactly like onr of my ex-racers, he used to be the exact same, verging on agressive in his stable, would bite lots, was clearly uncomfortable to be tacked up, difficult to keep weight on and very backwards to ride. I spoke to my vet about it who said that due to him being exracer he probably had ulcers or intollerances. He suggested changing his diet to see if it helped and if not they would scope him. We put him on Winergy feeds and within a few weeks he was different, more chilled out, nicer to handle, more energy and had gained weight. The Winergy however became to expensive to continue with so I put him on more or less pure fibre, A&P Fast Fibre and Ultra Grass (which is pretty much just dried grass) with A&P Power & Performance cubes and the Equus Health Winter Glow supplement (Linseed, spearmint, garlic and fernugreek) and he is still a very happy pony, we have no probs keeping weight on and he is much happier in himself. I've never had it confirmed that he has ulcers but it certainly looks like he may have.

One of the big things my vet said was too feed a 1/2-1 scoop of fibre 30min before riding to line his stomach and stop him being uncomfortable when ridden. We have also thrown him out 24/7 and he seems happier still like that.

Personally I would get back to your vet and demand they scope him - they say 90% of racehorses have ulcers so its very likely and the sooner you do something about it the sooner you can get him sorted and get on with it!
 
I just kept telling myself the vet must know what he's talking about (not my current vet I hasten to add who is brilliant). But Ronnie just seems so *wrong* at times. A lot of people have suggested gastric ulcers so it's not just me being a paranoid mum, which I freely admit that I am! Vet out tomorrow (assuming snow doesn't cause another postponement!) to so his SI check, so will ask for the referral then. Just wish I'd done it when he had to stay at Cambridge all that time - I was so tempted but kept telling myself I was being paranoid!

In a way I hope it is something that can be treated, I hate to think he'll always be so grumpy and miserable.
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I just want him to be happy and comfortable
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You've certainly seen his behaviour - but he looks a LOT better now than he did. Last year it was awful how skinny he was, everyone was telling me he was too thin but nothing I tried was working. He was so lazy to ride that I wore bald patches on his sides with my nagging legs. I had a terrible lesson where my instructor made me really get after him with two whips to make him sharper - which worked but it changed his attitude for the worse as well
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Poor Ronnie. I just want him to be happy and jolly. I will have to exhaust every avenue.
 
Don't beat yourself up - you can only do your best. You know how much trouble I went through with incorrect diagnosis' for Boo. Had I of trusted the original vet then I would probably still be trying to rehab her for KS, with the wobblers present and undiagnosed all the time. And don't forget it took me 18months to find a vet who would acknowledge that there was actually something wrong with her... until that time i had stupidly allowed myself to be fobbed off with excuses about her being young/undeveloped/unbalanced, and even several professionals telling me that she had schooling/behavioural issues.

If I have learned nothing else from that saga, it is that I KNOW MY HORSE BETTER THAN ANY VET, and I will bet money that you do too.
Good luck honey, I expect you will get a referral to one of the newmarket practices? If not, then I will absolutely recommend Dickie Henderson at Willesley. He diagnosed Boo's wobblers, but he is a gastric ulcer fountian of knowledge/expertise and has treated LPP and SC's horses for ulcers.
 
It is very hard to trust yourself when faced with vet expertise - Boo was vey lucky (not the right word, you know what I mean) that you were so determined to get to the bottom of the wobblers problem. So many people wouldn't.

There's a real fear of being either too laissez-faire with horse welfare, or of being too paranoid. It's hard to strike a balance.

Thank you for the recommendation. I think my vet will probably refer to CVS again, but I will mention Willesley. If it's not gastric ulcers, I'm running out of ideas! (but at least my OH will stop groaning when I mention it again)!

x
 
I saw a picture you put up a little while ago of him when you got him and was shocked at his condition. I would have said at that time, that I would be 99% sure he had ulcers. I'm not up on recovery times and rates, I looked into buying one of the racers from work who was like a hatrack, had ulcers and was a bleeder
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and had a long chat with Pat about drugs and management (the plan was to turn him out for 6 months - a year) but unfortunately I had my accident before it was finalised (I'd even sorted out the bl**dy transport to get him home
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) and he was sold to another trainer whilst I was in hospital
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I know where the horse has gone and am keeping an eye on him, and trying to find contact details for the trainer! Anyway, Pat was brilliant - and he does/did the odd bit at the yard I worked at, so knew the setup he was in.

It is possible that he had ulcers, when his management improved with you, they quietened down, hence his gain in condition, and have flared up again from all the box rest with his leg and SI? Even if he's eating ad lib, he does get very stressed which might cause them to flare up? I don't know enough about them, I'm just guessing now
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But I'd definately go with your instinct and get him checked.

Hope the vet makes it tomorrow! x
 
Ive gone through the same with my chap. Spoke to my vet, and she said they are so common now, she wouldnt scope unless there I was adament, because such a large % of horses have them, and are never really bothered by them, and some are very much bothered by them... she said with symptoms (yours is similar to my horses) she would recommend feeding a high fibre high oil diet (Mine is on almost exactly the same diet as Scarletts! except I feed Alfa Oil) and see how the symptoms get on, and then she would eb happy to try him with Gastroguard if the symptoms get worse even with the high fibre/oil diet. Have to say, my horse is now alot happier, more forward going and looks fab with absolutely no starchy feeds at all.
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Fingers crossed he stays like this when competing...
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Hi there - thanks for your reply. Ronnie has been on high fibre diet all the time I have had him, he only went onto build-up cubes last winter when I was so desperately worried about how thin he was. He's not been on any cereals for almost a year. I am now topping up his diet with Alfa-A Oil (have been for the last few months). he does look well, I can't deny it, but I can't get over this lingering feeling that there is still something underlying. He is getting so aggressive it's getting dangerous handling him. He seems desperate to have things in his mouth, chewing, eating.

Vet out this afternoon so I'm going to push the point. I've been worrying about this for nearly two years and it's well overdue for me doing something about it.
 
Oh gosh I've got far worse pictures of him than that
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He looked like a welfare case - even over the first summer I had him. Vet kept telling me it was his age and not to worry about it (but it was summer and there was lots of grass!). I got so worried, he's been on all sorts of supplements and fattening products for so long. The first thing that made any difference was brewer's yeast, he blossomed (but went psycho too - scared of his own shadow!!).

Sorry you didn't get to have the ex-racer you wanted - but it could have been a lot of heartache for you. At least you were planning well in advance.

When i went to see Ronnie he didn't look bad at all, the vetting vet said he looked in great condition, but within about 2 weeks of having him at our yard he'd lost about half his body weight it seemed! I had no idea before I got him that he'd had anything wrong, he'd barely been in training long, was useless so was being used as trainer's hack and so i suppose I didn't investigate his possible welfare issues as much as I should have!

Benefit of hindsight etc.
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Hopefully vet will be out later! xx
 
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