GCT: a very exclusive but dangerous club??

I really enjoyed it - I went yesterday and it was fab.

To the poster who asked about wild cards, effectively that is what happens. Places go to the top ranked riders plus some wild card slots for host nations - which is why some of the gulf states were a bit over-represented.

I actually think we should welcome horse sports moving to more emerging nations. Overall it can only be a good thing. And money may be very important but I would not envy anyone in those countries - they have huge disadvantages in terms of access to trainers, competition and quality young horses breeding. They have none of the "infrastructure" that we in europe take for granted. Over time that may change. And no matter how much the horse cost, you can't get it round a track that size without being pretty good.
 
I have to say that the round which haunts me was by a GB lady rider, who decided to take out her frustration on her poor horse's mouth after the faulting round...... the commentator said immediately that is was unecessary.

Knocking poles out seems minor imho.
 
I haven't read other posts my overriding thoughts were that the GCT this weekend highlighted more than ever that SJing is a two tier sport.

1. The elite wealthy who can buy into the very top levels of the sport either by having a go themselves or buying top horses for others to ride. GCT is clearly designed for the super elite and to encourage more of the super elite. There was more talk of money ie cost of horses and prize money than I can ever remember before.

2. The jobbing SJing at the bottom of the food chain doing their best to earn a living under very difficult conditions, most of whom will never reach the top echelons of the GCT type levels.

I think it was made very clear this weekend that the wealthy are the ones wanted in the sport as they are the people who can fund riders at this level and help retain good horses in the country. It was interesting that whilst the corporate tables looked busy the rest of the spectating stands were empty and for the people that were in them a large proportion will be foreigners so in this country it just doesn't look to be a popular sport.

Ben Maher = spellbinding
Roger Yves Bost = OMG :D

Fantastic show.
 
But I really don't think this is new or different. Anyone who has been to any of the large European or North American shows surely can't have come away with the idea this is a cheap sport.

No one seems upset that Jane Forbes Clark is now funding Ben. At one.Olympics she owned an entry in every discipline! Eric is funded by the father of his protege, which was also the case with his last owner. I would imagine the Springsteen family work helps Laura out. It's not even only sj - Jackie Mars is a long time supporter of the O'Connors. Glock now finances Gal and HPM to an extraordinary tune. Plus sa change. . .

Horse sports are cheaper in the UK and maybe that's why everyone seems surprised but at the top end competition is an international game.

The sport seems quite happy to take [increasingly Arab] money so there can be Nations Cups etc - surely everyone sees the ramifications of that choice? He who pays the piper calls the tune. ;)
 
Btw, I do think there should be more stringent qualifications for 4/5* events. It does seem madness that riders do not even have to produce proof of competency, even if the QR system doesn't necessarily have to be as complicated as the one for eventing.
 
No its not new TS but I think its the first time a lot of us here will really have seen the differences. Unless you follow the sport abroad you only really see SJing from the local equestrian centre which of course is light years away from what we saw at the weekend. I remember seeing the world championships in Vegas one year and it wasn't a patch on this. Jan Tops has obs really worked hard to create another level again in this sport.

It is clear that the sport is run by and for a few movers and shakers and everyone else rubs along as best as they can.

As a spectator it was fantastic to watch but as a competitor I'm not which way it would take you. Either full of motivation that with drive and determination you'll aspire to be there or full of woe that the sport is now beyond you unless you have very deep pockets.

One thing I do hope though is that with the emergence of the young riders it brings a new degree of honesty and integrity to the sport. I always feel the old riders and therefore the sport are rather stereotypical of the Jilly Cooper novels in that their only objective is to sh@g or sh@ft you, preferable both but either will do, but with the interest in corporate sponsorship who will often have family orientations will 'calm down' this image. I thought Ben Maher and Scott Brash were wonderful to see being interviewed. To be so humble and have so much talent was fantastic, no arrogance or ego at all.


Visa Vis proof of competency I think there is a quandry here in that yes the horses / riders need to be safe and sound in the ring but without practice at that level how do you learn.Most people don't have trainers currently competing at that level to be able to talk/ feel you through big tracks like that. There is an argument that says just get on and do it. After all Roger Yves Bost hardly looks competent. Some of the emerging countries UAE and China are not totally at ease but look how they've come on. Give another few years and we'll be chasing them :D
 
BBH said:
I haven't read other posts my overriding thoughts were that the GCT this weekend highlighted more than ever that SJing is a two tier sport.

1. The elite wealthy who can buy into the very top levels of the sport either by having a go themselves or buying top horses for others to ride. GCT is clearly designed for the super elite and to encourage more of the super elite. There was more talk of money ie cost of horses and prize money than I can ever remember before.

2. The jobbing SJing at the bottom of the food chain doing their best to earn a living under very difficult conditions, most of whom will never reach the top echelons of the GCT type levels.

I think it was made very clear this weekend that the wealthy are the ones wanted in the sport as they are the people who can fund riders at this level and help retain good horses in the country. It was interesting that whilst the corporate tables looked busy the rest of the spectating stands were empty and for the people that were in them a large proportion will be foreigners so in this country it just doesn't look to be a popular sport.

Ben Maher = spellbinding
Roger Yves Bost = OMG :D

Fantastic show.
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What day did you go? I went Sat and the other stands were fairly full - and definitely plenty of brits.

I'm not sure the gap you are referring to hasn't always existed. One thing that has changed is that the overall organisation of BS is much better and you no longer have Ronnie Massarella's chosen clique going to all the big shows, with no thought to bringing anyone else on or looking at the next generation. This went on for years and culminated in the Derek Williams, demoted from nations cups disaster and it accounts for the 30-40 yo "lost generation". I think Rob Hoekstra has been exactly what was needed. The results in Saturday's grand prix were well deserved too - every one of the brits in the jump off rode really, really well.
 
I would agree that from an outside perspective the UK scene at the top has changed considerably in recent years. I think that was true for many nations during those years - the 'chef for life' - and actually the emergence of new nations has done a lot to combat that exclusivity. As you say, perhaps people just weren't aware of it here.

The emerging nations have not just spent the money on horses but on training, too, which has really opened the market. Like many pro sports now good coaches no longer have to aspire only to their national teams.
 
For years we have realistically not watched the best horses in this country. The Hickstead Derby went to horses who do well at county level but they are not superstars on the world circuit. The Cock o the North, Stairways series, HOYS, Scope, etc etc are not having the elite present.
The only time we see the best is at Olympia.
I loved watching it on TV and I loved seeing the best compete. I like the fact they compete against each other regularly and I am not bothered about there being another tier because there always has been. When was the last time you saw Nick, Ben, Scott etc compete on the national circuit?
 
I hadn't really thought of that issue, LEC. Canada is a horsey backwater in many respects but it does have Spruce and ready access to the big American shows, including WEF, where, increasingly, many of the big boys come to play in the winter. I'm not sure it always raises everyone's game on an individual level but it is a constant reminder of how far one is away from the top!
 
I'm sorry, I looked at the screen as the round ended and saw what happened + heard the commentator remark that the action was uncalled for.
As with most things, the negative snipets stick in the mind!
 
was it the 5* or 2* Sibert? I saw similar in a 2* class where a rider had 4flts from the last fence, although I thought the commentator said the horse deserved it!
 
Sorry, I really don't know, we had the whole thing playing and it was one of the snippets I saw.

Maybe I am a bit out of date, but no horse should have a rider's disappointment taken out via the bit - this is why I no longer own competitive :cool:SJ horses....
 
I don't really understand the problem ,the wealthy will always dominate in every sport as the can afford the best kit and trainers.

In fact we need to attract more, as compared to golf, the money in equestrianism is terrible.

The super rich buying horses feeds the industry making horses.

We need to encourage these riders, as anything that raises the profile is good as it promotes more sponsorship elsewhere which benefits all.

If you are unhappy with the advantages money buys then you need to take up a sport with a level playing field...
 
I'm not sure that bringing more money to the sport sired benefit all, but leaving that aside, I do agree with the idea you can't have it both ways.

But many of the things that limit sponsorship for equestrian disciplines are intrinsic to the sport. Comparing it to golf or football is somewhat disingenuous - it's more like yacht racing!

We were discussing this last night in the context of the Ben Maher BBC 'have a go' piece. Even the non-horsey people I was talking to grasped that 'having a go' riding for the average person is not easy or even safe! The UK has traditionally been by far the most intrinsically horsey western nation - there are lots of people here who would not be able to compete or even ride in other parts of the world because of financial and logistical limitations - but even so, it's still fairly 'niche' in the modern world, which means from a promotional point of view, it's spectator driven. Any golf nut can aspire to hacking and slicing around St. Andrews, very few riders are going to jump around a 4*!

Tbf, the GCT does address this to some degree by combining a 2* with the 5* but even the lower classes, as discussed, are costly. I'm still interested in the couple of people who said they had friends their who weren't paying - were they subsidised by the show or by development funding?
 
Showjumping is an expensive elitist sport where money counts and as long as there is an acceptance that only those with deep pockets can succeed it doesn't really matter. Riding to most people just isn't accessible in all fairness and yes it does have a reputation for being dangerous. How many times do you see these medical emergency shows where the air ambulance is retrieving someone who has fallen from their horse.

I can't blame the government either for not funding more because if you have a budget of say £10,000 that buys an awful lot of footballs, hockey sticks etc etc etc to get loads of kids involved whereas for riding it wouldn't buy 1 person a decent horse. Anyone who starts and shows an aptitude has to be self funded and given the average wage is about £24k that isn't going to be easy.

On an aside I was rather disappointed that on hearing about the GCT being glamerous, sexy and cool no-one appeared who could confirm this. Where was David Gandy, Jose Mourhino and Jonny Depp.:D
 
TarrSteps said:
I'm not sure that bringing more money to the sport sired benefit all, but leaving that aside, I do agree with the idea you can't have it both ways.

But many of the things that limit sponsorship for equestrian disciplines are intrinsic to the sport. Comparing it to golf or football is somewhat disingenuous - it's more like yacht racing!

We were discussing this last night in the context of the Ben Maher BBC 'have a go' piece. Even the non-horsey people I was talking to grasped that 'having a go' riding for the average person is not easy or even safe! The UK has traditionally been by far the most intrinsically horsey western nation - there are lots of people here who would not be able to compete or even ride in other parts of the world because of financial and logistical limitations - but even so, it's still fairly 'niche' in the modern world, which means from a promotional point of view, it's spectator driven. Any golf nut can aspire to hacking and slicing around St. Andrews, very few riders are going to jump around a 4*!

Tbf, the GCT does address this to some degree by combining a 2* with the 5* but even the lower classes, as discussed, are costly. I'm still interested in the couple of people who said they had friends their who weren't paying - were they subsidised by the show or by development funding?
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I know a few people who competed - someone who did the smallest class who is just very wealthy and privately funded, someone else who jumped the 1,30-1,45 classes who is sponsored (is that what you asked??). I thought all 2* classes looked very friendly and easy - I suppose if you are paying that much you need to keep people happy so need courses they will get around! Based on all evidence I have seen, the top venues in the UK build bigger, stronger more technical courses than the rest of Europe at the lower levels (up to say 1.40m).

I personally doubt equestrianism will ever go back to being a sport Joe Public is interested in again - it may have had its day at some stage, but as you say, it is seen as so elitist - which it absolutely is at top level - that nobody could possibly take an interest in it. It will never really be a sport where stars are coming from nowhere/a disadvantaged background that everyone can relate to and root for, or a sport that is easy to access and understand, so I completely get why the average public are just not interested.
 
BBH - who is David Gandy.

I don't have any particular views on the GCT

Despite being an avid show jumping fan in the past and having spectated at the Windsor Europeans with the other one man and his dog, I watched the F1 one at the weekend rather than the show jumping although have caught up with some of the show jumpng and may watch the rest on a slow TV night.

Now F1 must be the most elitist sport going but I suppose that every man and that dog can imagine they would have been good enough given the chance since most people can drive a car. Going back many years ago OH had a friend who was pretty good at the lower levels but it would have taken £100,000 plus back in those days to get into the next series up which wasn't going to happen. I suppose if you happen to be good enough and in the right place you may be lucky enough to get support and finance but that can also happen in horse sports.

No idea as to the point of the post. Felt it was going somewhere but has got stuck.

Must admit re celebrities at events, always makes me cross when some random celeb is interviewed on the grid at F1 and it is the first one they have been to. Now if they were really interested as opposed to being "seen" am sure they would have been in the past at their own expense!
 
little_flea said:
I know a few people who competed - someone who did the smallest class who is just very wealthy and privately funded, someone else who jumped the 1,30-1,45 classes who is sponsored (is that what you asked??). I thought all 2* classes looked very friendly and easy - I suppose if you are paying that much you need to keep people happy so need courses they will get around! Based on all evidence I have seen, the top venues in the UK build bigger, stronger more technical courses than the rest of Europe at the lower levels (up to say 1.40m).

I personally doubt equestrianism will ever go back to being a sport Joe Public is interested in again - it may have had its day at some stage, but as you say, it is seen as so elitist - which it absolutely is at top level - that nobody could possibly take an interest in it. It will never really be a sport where stars are coming from nowhere/a disadvantaged background that everyone can relate to and root for, or a sport that is easy to access and understand, so I completely get why the average public are just not interested.
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I think you're quite right - equestrian sport courts the wealthy in this way because it has been seen as the way to fund the sport at the top level. But if the general public views the equestrian sports as elitist, who's competitors are just a bunch of snobs poncing about on overpriced horses (which they undoubtedly do because as a layman it is hard to see anything else), then there will never be the opportunity to fund the sport in any other way.
I am not saying that it would necessarily ever be possible to fund the sport in another way, even if it gained a much broader appeal among the general public, so I don't know whether it would ever be worth the risk for the top levels of the sport to change.
 
I read a report about the GCT London yesterday, the report suggested that the show in London will continue for a while at least.

So, how do we get bums on seats for the first 2 days, Thursday and Friday?

The top horses were jumping on Thursday, as a warm up,and the riders all had second strings.
The 2 star classes were entertaining,I dont know about tradestands, but maybe thats not the b all and end all of GCT, like we Brits are used to shopping at HOYS etc.

Is it an access and transport thing? is it ticket price?

Perhaps the local children, local riders, tourists, anyone who is able to get there, should be encouraged.
I must admit I cringed at the lack of audience seen on the web casts on the first two days.
The GCT television channel and commentary was excellent, I have to say.
So, what do others think?
 
I don't think it was just Thurs / Friday that lacked spectators.

Sat had glaring seat gaps although was the busiest I saw and sunday was like a ghost town. The winning horse was doing a lap of honor to what looked like a dozen people. The whole thing on Sunday had the vibe of a party that had finished with just the last few stragglers left.

You have to wonder whether anyone one is bothered about a lack of audience tbh as at that level it is running for the few key movers and shakers not the bulk of the equestrian audience. The fact it is coming back is testament to the fact the lack of paying ticket holders is no hindrance to its viability.

The only time it is an issue is on TV as its not great when the camera pans swathes of empty seats although kudos to the camera team who did zoom in on a gathering to give the appearance of the stands being packed.

To get bums on seats, the whole machine needs less apathy from the various equestrian bodies. What contribution did BS ( yes I know its FEI sponsored but still ) make to galvanise members, riding clubs, equestrian centres could arrange a day out coach trip. Not even H & H had the banners waving to highlight the event. It could easily have passed us by tbh. The website needs to be easier to navigate,the ticket information needs to be accurate ie being told same info as on the web site. Analysis of ticket sales needs to happen early and have contingency plan in place short term sales ie £10 on gate, ring all riding clubs etc for group offers.

They will be able to better the attendance next year purely for the fact that they won't have such a tight timescale to stage it visa vis planning issues, more people will know about it, ticket price discounts can be offered in a timely fashion if appropriate. Costs were dear if you include the extra expense of travel, food, etc etc but I still think its a terrific occasion and should be on peoples calender like HOYS, Olympia atc etc.

Agree online coverage was great. did you say it was a Frederic someone ??? He was very informative.
 
BBH said:
I don't think it was just Thurs / Friday that lacked spectators.

Sat had glaring seat gaps although was the busiest I saw and sunday was like a ghost town. The winning horse was doing a lap of honor to what looked like a dozen people. The whole thing on Sunday had the vibe of a party that had finished with just the last few stragglers left.

You have to wonder whether anyone one is bothered about a lack of audience tbh as at that level it is running for the few key movers and shakers not the bulk of the equestrian audience. The fact it is coming back is testament to the fact the lack of paying ticket holders is no hindrance to its viability.

The only time it is an issue is on TV as its not great when the camera pans swathes of empty seats although kudos to the camera team who did zoom in on a gathering to give the appearance of the stands being packed.

To get bums on seats, the whole machine needs less apathy from the various equestrian bodies. What contribution did BS ( yes I know its FEI sponsored but still ) make to galvanise members, riding clubs, equestrian centres could arrange a day out coach trip. Not even H & H had the banners waving to highlight the event. It could easily have passed us by tbh. The website needs to be easier to navigate,the ticket information needs to be accurate ie being told same info as on the web site. Analysis of ticket sales needs to happen early and have contingency plan in place short term sales ie £10 on gate, ring all riding clubs etc for group offers.

They will be able to better the attendance next year purely for the fact that they won't have such a tight timescale to stage it visa vis planning issues, more people will know about it, ticket price discounts can be offered in a timely fashion if appropriate. Costs were dear if you include the extra expense of travel, food, etc etc but I still think its a terrific occasion and should be on peoples calender like HOYS, Olympia atc etc.

Agree online coverage was great. did you say it was a Frederic someone ??? He was very informative.
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All of this - not advertised enough (though they did change venue very late), not sign posted, bloody expensive tickets, trade stands and food etc very disappointing (although the plastic camel that was the first thing you saw on entry did crack me up). I am still all for it though - I literally live two tube stops away - but wouldn't travel across the country to go to it, especially as live stream was so good. Saying that, Westfield shopping centre is quite exciting for a visitor.
 
I posted on the other thread in the news lounge about this but personally

poorly advertised. Had read it was happening, then not happening because of planning, then never really read anything else until I think JCWhite posted about it.

nothing from any organisation I belong to about it - admitted don't belong to the BS these days but belong to plenty of other things, am on mailing list for HOYS, Olympia, Hickstead through either having competed there or gone as a spectator

didn't see any ticket discounted anywhere which may have encouraged a late purchase albeit rather like Windsor if you have already paid full price then discounts, that is a little miffing

expense of getting to London and across London. Am lazy but like places I can drive and park at.

Just seen re the plastic camel - that could have sold it for me, as do like camels.


If it us up and running and all things being equal would go next year as could plan in advance.

Actually found the website rather rubbish. Got as far as the seating plan on a couple of occasions for booking tickets and then didn't proceed.
 
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I think Thurs and Fri will always struggle due to people working, but attendance could be improved lots of ways:
I agree with BBH, it didnt get enough coverage in the equestrian press. There were quite a lot of adverts but IMO they didnt really say what they could have done like "come and watch our gold medal winning show jumpers take on some of the best in the world" - the nick skelton pic jumping tower bridge was great but the header "global champions tour" doesnt mean anything to lots of people - it isnt even obvious its a competition! The website is rubbish for actually buying tickets too. Also IMO they were quite pricey - I had sat pm uncovered seats and they were £47 each, and if they had made them a bit cheaper they would probably get more bums on seats. Tradestands-wise they could have done with a good tack shop of the sort that sell overreach boots etc not just super expensive bling jackets and boots. I hope that next time more people get behind it and are encouraged to attend as it was actually really good.
 
In all honesty, I'd never heard of the GCT until I joined the UKSJ forum on facebook!

I agree that they were pricey - although I heard from several people they tried to get tickets for saturday but it was sold out? And a friend who was there said that there were lots of people not in the stands but watching on screens at the champagne bar - guess its a bit similar to the olympics on eventing dressage days when people were out walking the xc course etc.

Quite honestly, i dont think the stands will be filled on the weekday mornings, especially in the first few years its here. Even at HOYS and Olympia the morning classes have pretty much empty stands, even for sold out sessions! It was poorly advertised, but given how short a timeframe they had it doesnt surprise me that much.
 
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