Geenuine all rounder

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eahotson

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I have been talking about this to a few people.What most people want is a nice,sane sensible,sound horse.One that will hack out on its own/in company.Load easily,good with vet/farrier and has enough decent basic schooling to do some quite low level competition.They are like gold dust! So long as you have a decent enough budget you can buy dressage/event or show jumpers but as for the others.I wonder if it is because people won't pay enough to make a profit on that sort of horse?
 
Dex is one of those - he is very safe and will give anything a go, is great hacking, on the ground, with all professionals, can take him on your own to a show, he would do a prelim and a showjumping round if you asked him to (but he hasn't yet as I have taken it slow for longevity) and has popped a log/gone through rivers/over ditches out hacking.

Albeit he is a personal horse and not a sales prospect, so I pay part livery at £625 per month and have bought quite a few 'want' things, it's not all 'need' things, he cost me £7k to buy as an untouched almost 3yo and since the day I bought him 18 months ago has cost me £25,013 (incl £3k on a trailer - but which I would need to go to outings to create an allrounder). I keep a spreadsheet to track it all, so know what I have sprent to the penny.

Even if I remove 30% of that cost as being superfluous, I don't think I would get much interest if I put him up for £24.5k to breakeven...
 
You've hit the nail on the head. It's what the vast majority of riders need and the sensible ones amongst them want. However it's a type that's extremely undervalued. People seem to value horses with 'potential' to do far more than your average rider will ever need despite the fact that often means higher management needs or simply over-horsing themselves. Ego has a lot to answer for sometimes.

Many of the best horses I've known have been plain, sometimes aged and financially relatively worthless but in reality worth their weight in gold.
 
alibali said:
You've hit the nail on the head. It's what the vast majority of riders need and the sensible ones amongst them want. However it's a type that's extremely undervalued. People seem to value horses with 'potential' to do far more than your average rider will ever need despite the fact that often means higher management needs or simply over-horsing themselves. Ego has a lot to answer for sometimes.

Many of the best horses I've known have been plain, sometimes aged and financially relatively worthless but in reality worth their weight in gold.
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This. A lot of people seem to want to go and affiliate and prance around on a horse they can’t really handle, regardless of their skill level, lifestyle or suitability for that sort of horse.

One good thing about BD offering breed championships is that it helps to combat the idea that to be a competitive amateur, you need a warmblood bred for the professional market. I’m not sure that model would work so well in other horse sports, but the principle of it is sound.

Generally I think people should be more honest with themselves about what they want, and what their circumstances allow, though. A sensible all-rounder is what most riders need, even if it’s not what they want.
 
this is what diva is, or will be with a bit more schooling over winter. genuinely the kind of pony i wouldn’t think twice about taking and doing something with because she’s got the attitude to give anything a go. bags of character and she can be a madam with things, but overall just easy to have around, already been to various shows and clinics and she’s more level headed than the 11 year old🤣

i paid £1200 for her as an unbacked 4 year old last spring! i wouldn’t expect to get a massive amount for her say next spring, because she’s not got any sort of speciality.

i agree it’s rare to see something that doesn’t have at least one hang up, ie needs sedation to clip, or doesn’t hack alone etc
 
eahotson said:
I have been talking about this to a few people.What most people want is a nice,sane sensible,sound horse.One that will hack out on its own/in company.Load easily,good with vet/farrier and has enough decent basic schooling to do some quite low level competition.They are like gold dust! So long as you have a decent enough budget you can buy dressage/event or show jumpers but as for the others.I wonder if it is because people won't pay enough to make a profit on that sort of horse?
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People won’t pay the price it costs to produce one. It takes just as much skill (although slightly different skill) to produce a really nice RC allrounder.
Those that have a good one that they have made themselves rarely put them on the market.
 
Agree building the perfect all rounder requires time and skill and a lot more outings to different places than a competition horse.

And yes, most people aren't willing to pay what that costs but I think that is partly because you can't be sure of what you are buying. If you want a dressage or jumper it's pretty easy to make sure they do what you want, but unless you get an all rounder on trial it's impossible to know if it is trials as good as it sounds.

I do think there is good money to be made out of happy hackers for the woman of a certain age. There's a whole cohort of middle aged women who perhaps had horses when younger and they want the bomb proof happy hacker and are willing to pay eye watering amounts for the right one.

My smallest cob cost £7k a few years back and a woman in my village who had seen us hacking out started asking various people about us and what we did then asked if I would sell her, started at £10k and kept upping it. I had to say I was offended and tell her to stop in case I became tempted!
 
Jambarissa said:
WAgree building the perfect all rounder requires time and skill and a lot more outings to different places than a competition horse.

And yes, most people aren't willing to pay what that costs but I think that is partly because you can't be sure of what you are buying. If you want a dressage or jumper it's pretty easy to make sure they do what you want, but unless you get an all rounder on trial it's impossible to know if it is trials as good as it sounds.

I do think there is good money to be made out of happy hackers for the woman of a certain age. There's a whole cohort of middle aged women who perhaps had horses when younger and they want the bomb proof happy hacker and are willing to pay eye watering amounts for the right one.

My smallest cob cost £7k a few years back and a woman in my village who had seen us hacking out started asking various people about us and what we did then asked if I would sell her, started at £10k and kept upping it. I had to say I was offended and tell her to stop in case I became tempted!
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When I was looking there was a cob,shown successfully,Competed up to elementary dressage,rideable by most levels of rider etc.£25.000 and he went very quickly .Probably to someone who knew him
 
This is what I’m looking for - around 15.1/15.2, not too wide, safe, sane, cuddly, easy to do, rocking horse canter (I’m currently riding a TB with the most uncomfortable canter so this is important!) and neither too old nor too young. I want to be able to hack, do a low level dressage test, riding club pole clinics etc. I’m aware I’m looking for a Goldilocks pony and that it won’t (shouldn’t) be cheap but haven’t found a sound version yet.
 
PeterNatt said:
Unfortunately, most horses are not started correctly or exposed to the environment. They are not taught to hack out calmly by themselves and are just ridden in circles around an arena. There are also far too many people that over-horse themselves and in the process destroy their horses.
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Kept a horse at a dealers for a while.Watched what was going on.Many were brought in from Ireland,backed,hacked out a couple of times by a very competent rider and then sold on as "broken".
 
I think there are two main reasons, firstly, as others have said, people rarely want to pay what it really costs to produce a good, sensible allrounder. Secondly, they are undervalued, not enough people recognise that they really want one, instead they think they want a fancypants, because they like the idea of it, but they its not what they need in reality.
 
In most cases if you have one you keep it. A lot of dealers produce young horses. A good all rounder takes time to get right and experience out doing lots of activities and have the right temperment probably not going to be a quick flip for a dealer. Private homes may well keep them unless out grown or child going to uni but they probably sold through word of mouth.

When I was looking last year it was very difficult. It was mainly youngsters or veterans with nothing much in between or the top competition ponies that been to HOYS. A competition horse such as a SJ or dressage horse show horses etc a dealer can intensively school and get out to a few shows to demonstrate their ability. All rounders require more work to get to point where they are easy to handle in a variety of situations. A horse that hacks alone and in company and is good in traffic is a rare gem. Hacking has become way more challenging with more traffic and land getting built on. Not many yards have off road hacking without some road work work. There is a lot fly tipping and rubbish, dogs off leads etc. If you want a horse that will do a sponsored ride one weekend, dressage another, a show class and go show jumping and do a hunter trials/x country, hack out alone and in company, pass a vetting, suitable for an amateur. It hard to find that sort of horse. I think a lot of people don't have time to do a bit of everything to establish an all rounder.
 
I am extremely lucky to own 2 such horses. However one is now 21. He has been with me since a 4 year old and although a fantastic allrounder who will and does hack anywhere either alone or in company, he was also a fabulous competition horse, eventing to BE100. He is the sweetest horse who anyone can handle.
My 9 year old is the same. He hacks alone or in company. He has competed in his first meduim dressage tests this year. This weekend he went clear arena eventing at 1 metre. He is a total poppet to handle.

BUT I bought both horses as youngsters. They have both taken until about 7 years old to get to being the best horses possible, it was hard work and took a lot of time. The younger horse is pretty valuable now but that is because of his competition background, not his allroundness. To me a horse that will do everything quite well is worth it's weight in gold. They are almost impossible to buy. You have to make them yourself!
 
My sister and I gave up finding the nice/sound/not too many quirks all rounder and instead found a great support network and made own. I hack my horse out down the side of a dual carriage way, he does ok in the dressage ring (but this is not his love) and will jump anything you point him at. Been on holiday, been to the beach, done sidesaddle, taken him hunting etc. He was bought as a rising 2 year old. Neither of us are what you'd describe as 'excellent riders', but we have a herd of 5 happy all rounders from a little cob to a huge tb and a 3 year old wb who hopefully will join the club, but with a bit more of a love for dressage.
 
I have one. BH is ace. Will do low level competition or teach the boyfriend to ride. Rides out alone or in company and is a genuinely nice person. He also moves well and jumps.

I have been offered an eye watering amount for him, but no he is not for sale. The lady was surprised, as the offer was huge, but, as I told her, where would I find another like him?

Rigs is also ace, but is 19 now and not great in traffic from behind so I guess he wouldn't get much money. He is, however, priceless as he is fun and is also teaching the BF to ride. He too is kind.
 
I have one and paid a pretty hefty price for mine - she could do an ok novice test, has ode 80/90, hacks anywhere on her own or with others, easy to do, sweet and lovable and pretty. She’s safe enough for a novice and I may even do some jumping with her - she’s a point and jump (all with just the right amount of energy). She’s just a happy little soul, that’s always pleased to see you and do stuff - never grumpy. I struck gold when I bought her. I’ve had interest in her but I would never sell her.
 
Ceriann said:
I have one and paid a pretty hefty price for mine - she could do an ok novice test, has ode 80/90, hacks anywhere on her own or with others, easy to do, sweet and lovable and pretty. She’s safe enough for a novice and I may even do some jumping with her - she’s a point and jump (all with just the right amount of energy). She’s just a happy little soul, that’s always pleased to see you and do stuff - never grumpy. I struck gold when I bought her. I’ve had interest in her but I would never sell her.
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If you get a good one you don't do you?
 
Muddy unicorn said:
This is what I’m looking for - around 15.1/15.2, not too wide, safe, sane, cuddly, easy to do, rocking horse canter (I’m currently riding a TB with the most uncomfortable canter so this is important!) and neither too old nor too young. I want to be able to hack, do a low level dressage test, riding club pole clinics etc. I’m aware I’m looking for a Goldilocks pony and that it won’t (shouldn’t) be cheap but haven’t found a sound version yet.
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You have described my NF pony. He is 15hh though. He’s no longer showable in NF classes as oversize, he grew till he was 8, but he is such a sweetie and does everything so well.
 
I had the opposite impression that they were highly sought after at the moment although often described more as Riding Club/ low level horses rather than an all rounder and if they are straightforward and safe were worth an absolute fortune. I think I'd also categorise most low level eventers as an all rounder if they're straight forward and easy to do.
 
I really want to produce an ‘all rounder’. But I’m struggling due to my lack of skill. I bought unbroken and had professionally backed and ridden away at a lovely small schooling yard. Kept him there for a yr and half even though it was an hr s drive for me. They basically just hacked him for that time. Then I brought him to my yard and paid my instructor to ride once a week, hacked him myself and had one short lesson on him. He’s five and a bit now. During the summer I sent him to a very reputable dressage rider to bring on a bit.

I’m finding I’m a bit stuck. He’s fab to hack. Hacked him in heavy traffic last week. He was unflappable. He’s a complete sweetie on ground and in stable. Seems to genuinely enjoy human company.

My instructor (who is amazing) says I should now start thinking about tiny “projects”. She suggested a really low level dressage comp doing a walk trot test. I know I need to get him out there. But I feel like such a fraud. My riding is abysmal. Now, my instructor disagrees… but I’m pretty sure she’s telling fibs. And I did take him to a clinic about six months ago, and he literally ran around with his head in the air calling, with me looking like a complete numpty on his back.

This is all completely on me. He is FANTASTIC. Sometimes I fantasise about selling him and seeing him do all the things I dream about with a more accomplished rider. But I couldn’t sell him. He’s only ever known kindness and respect. It would come as a complete shock to him to know that humans can be cruel. I could not bear the idea of him falling into wrong hands.
 
PeterNatt said:
Unfortunately, most horses are not started correctly or exposed to the environment. They are not taught to hack out calmly by themselves and are just ridden in circles around an arena. There are also far too many people that over-horse themselves and in the process destroy their horses.
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I don't think it takes much for a saintly cob produced by a professional/confident amateur to turn into a nappy thing though it takes a special horse to remain saintly in order for someone to gain their confidence. I'm not sure you can produce that ?
Squeak said:
I had the opposite impression that they were highly sought after at the moment although often described more as Riding Club/ low level horses rather than an all rounder and if they are straightforward and safe were worth an absolute fortune. I think I'd also categorise most low level eventers as an all rounder if they're straight forward and easy to do.
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Marketing 😅
I think a lot of people think they want a dressage horse but what they actually want is a nice horse that will do a decent elementary/medium 3 times a year with a bit of practise and hack out when the weather is nice which is very much not a dressage competition horse 😅 same goes for all disciplines.
 
YoLaTango said:
I really want to produce an ‘all rounder’. But I’m struggling due to my lack of skill. I bought unbroken and had professionally backed and ridden away at a lovely small schooling yard. Kept him there for a yr and half even though it was an hr s drive for me. They basically just hacked him for that time. Then I brought him to my yard and paid my instructor to ride once a week, hacked him myself and had one short lesson on him. He’s five and a bit now. During the summer I sent him to a very reputable dressage rider to bring on a bit.

I’m finding I’m a bit stuck. He’s fab to hack. Hacked him in heavy traffic last week. He was unflappable. He’s a complete sweetie on ground and in stable. Seems to genuinely enjoy human company.

My instructor (who is amazing) says I should now start thinking about tiny “projects”. She suggested a really low level dressage comp doing a walk trot test. I know I need to get him out there. But I feel like such a fraud. My riding is abysmal. Now, my instructor disagrees… but I’m pretty sure she’s telling fibs. And I did take him to a clinic about six months ago, and he literally ran around with his head in the air calling, with me looking like a complete numpty on his back.

This is all completely on me. He is FANTASTIC. Sometimes I fantasise about selling him and seeing him do all the things I dream about with a more accomplished rider. But I couldn’t sell him. He’s only ever known kindness and respect. It would come as a complete shock to him to know that humans can be cruel. I could not bear the idea of him falling into wrong hands.
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I think you're being a bit harsh on yourself :) running around with his head in the air sounds like he just had a lot to take in rather than a reflection of your riding. If you're worried about it can your instructor take him out to some clinics and shows initially to get him past that point?
 
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