stimpy
Well-Known Member
I have a mixed herd, two mares and two geldings. My two boys are very different, one is a 14 hh 9 year old Icelandic who grew up in a herd and has plenty of social skills, the other is a 15 year old 16hh Irish TB who, like many TBs, doesn't show many signs of having had a lot of herd contact with other horses in his early years. He was used as hunt hireling in Ireland and had a pretty hard life before coming to me 5 years ago. He has had a whole series of injuries and is consequently now retired as his body has really just worn out.
The two boys have been turned out together for the last 2 and a half years but since last summer their playing has escalated and has got more and more out of hand. The Icelandic loves to play and knows all the rules but my TB is like the kid who never knows when to stop and he gets pretty violent. Luckily, he is without shoes but the problem is not really kicking, it's biting. They play the chewing faces game and the biting front legs game fine but with inevitable certainty at some point my TB loses the plot and then tries to lock onto the Icelandic's neck and bring him down. He has a huge height advantage and once he locks on even though the Icelandic gives all the surrender signs he won't let go unless the Icelandic manages to wriggle free or I intervene (if I'm there obviously). I've had a few vet bills, a particularly nice one on a Sunday evening to stitch up a nasty facial wound. Whilst the TB is top dog in the herd he still very much respects the fact that I am the ultimate top dog and even when his blood is fully up and his veins are popping he will still defer to me if I intervene and so I can catch him and take out of the situation even when he is pratting about on his back legs. He is absolutely fine with the mares, they mostly ignore each other though the girls are very quick to get out of his way if he moves them on.
I know the obvious answer is to keep the boys separate but for every day that they are together there is maybe only 10 minutes of out-of-hand playing, the rest of the time they are stuck together grazing flank by flank and enjoying each other's company. They also both get a bit gormless when deprived of each other's company, they are clearly pining for each other and I have limited grazing so it is much more practical to have the herd together as much as possible. I have tried turning the TB out in a muzzle with the bottom cut out, I don't want to stop him eating, just stop him opening his mouth so far that he can lock onto the neck. The muzzle does seem to work but yesterday he managed to get the muzzle off during the day and the Icelandic had a fresh neck wound so it is a worry if he gets rid of the muzzle when I am not there. I've also thought about maybe doping the TB when he first goes out just to take the edge off him. That's not a long term solution I know but I was hoping it might allow me to break the habit and modify his behaviour a bit. If he was in work then I would turn him out with the others when he was tired but as he is crocked this is not an option.
I think the bottom line is that he needs a few months in a herd of big horses where he is not in charge so that they can instil a few horsey manners in him but it's not easy to find anyone who is willing to give that a go.
It is so frustrating as they have even spent a winter all out together 24/7 with none of the violence, lots of skid marks from the playing but no wounds. It seems that the dynamic has shifted over time to a point where it is not terribly safe but I'd love to shift it back again.
Does anyone have an ideas or observations to make?
The two boys have been turned out together for the last 2 and a half years but since last summer their playing has escalated and has got more and more out of hand. The Icelandic loves to play and knows all the rules but my TB is like the kid who never knows when to stop and he gets pretty violent. Luckily, he is without shoes but the problem is not really kicking, it's biting. They play the chewing faces game and the biting front legs game fine but with inevitable certainty at some point my TB loses the plot and then tries to lock onto the Icelandic's neck and bring him down. He has a huge height advantage and once he locks on even though the Icelandic gives all the surrender signs he won't let go unless the Icelandic manages to wriggle free or I intervene (if I'm there obviously). I've had a few vet bills, a particularly nice one on a Sunday evening to stitch up a nasty facial wound. Whilst the TB is top dog in the herd he still very much respects the fact that I am the ultimate top dog and even when his blood is fully up and his veins are popping he will still defer to me if I intervene and so I can catch him and take out of the situation even when he is pratting about on his back legs. He is absolutely fine with the mares, they mostly ignore each other though the girls are very quick to get out of his way if he moves them on.
I know the obvious answer is to keep the boys separate but for every day that they are together there is maybe only 10 minutes of out-of-hand playing, the rest of the time they are stuck together grazing flank by flank and enjoying each other's company. They also both get a bit gormless when deprived of each other's company, they are clearly pining for each other and I have limited grazing so it is much more practical to have the herd together as much as possible. I have tried turning the TB out in a muzzle with the bottom cut out, I don't want to stop him eating, just stop him opening his mouth so far that he can lock onto the neck. The muzzle does seem to work but yesterday he managed to get the muzzle off during the day and the Icelandic had a fresh neck wound so it is a worry if he gets rid of the muzzle when I am not there. I've also thought about maybe doping the TB when he first goes out just to take the edge off him. That's not a long term solution I know but I was hoping it might allow me to break the habit and modify his behaviour a bit. If he was in work then I would turn him out with the others when he was tired but as he is crocked this is not an option.
I think the bottom line is that he needs a few months in a herd of big horses where he is not in charge so that they can instil a few horsey manners in him but it's not easy to find anyone who is willing to give that a go.
It is so frustrating as they have even spent a winter all out together 24/7 with none of the violence, lots of skid marks from the playing but no wounds. It seems that the dynamic has shifted over time to a point where it is not terribly safe but I'd love to shift it back again.
Does anyone have an ideas or observations to make?
That makes my problem seem quite tame.