Genetics for foal colour...

[Charmin]

I have a mare whom I really, really would like to use Legrande on. However, I don't want to get a cremello (personal taste, sorry!) and my mare's dam was buckskin, so am just wondering as to the chances of getting a cremello are?

Mare is dark bay, dam was buckskin. Dam's lines are Finchampstead Curtain Call, can't for the life of me recall her sire's Sire's Ballybane Shamrock and he was brown.

Thank you so much!

 

[s4sugar]

If your mare is bay she cannot produce a double dilute. Cream is always expressed if present on a bay horse.
It can hide on a black or a grey but not on a bay or chestnut so your mare did not get the gene from her dam.

 

[cruiseline]

As s4sugar has stated, there would be no possibility of you getting a cremello foal by using Legrande on a bay mare.

Can you possibly send (by pm) or post some photos of your mare, so I can have a look at her colour. There are some sooty buckskins and bayskins that do a great job of disguising themselves as bays!!!

 

[kc2688]

if your mare is bay she doesn't carry cream or she would be buckskin like her mum, agouti (bay) base with one copy of cream make buckskin so you wouldn't get double dilute... i have a smokey buckskin colt who is black based with one copy of agouti & one copy of cream it would only be 50/50 if he passed the cream on to any foals wich is obviously what her dam had just the one copy an 50/50 chance so she couldn't of passed it on if you'r is bay

 

[whisp&willow]

Out of interest, what would be the outcome of a buckskin mare x legrande?

 

[cruiseline]

Out of interest, what would be the outcome of a buckskin mare x legrande?

If the mare doesn't carry a chestnut gene, the possibilities would be


46.88% -Buckskin
23.44% -Perlino
23.44% -Bay
3.13% -Smoky Black
1.56% -Smoky Cream
1.56% -Black

if the mare is a chestnut carrier, it would be


35.16% -Buckskin
17.58% -Perlino
17.58% -Bay
12.50% -Palomino
6.25% -Cremello
6.25% -Chestnut
2.34% -Smoky Black
1.17% -Smoky Cream
1.17% -Black

So as you can see, anything really

 

[whisp&willow]

If the mare doesn't carry a chestnut gene, the possibilities would be


46.88% -Buckskin
23.44% -Perlino
23.44% -Bay
3.13% -Smoky Black
1.56% -Smoky Cream
1.56% -Black

if the mare is a chestnut carrier, it would be


35.16% -Buckskin
17.58% -Perlino
17.58% -Bay
12.50% -Palomino
6.25% -Cremello
6.25% -Chestnut
2.34% -Smoky Black
1.17% -Smoky Cream
1.17% -Black

So as you can see, anything really

Thanks! That is interesting to know.

 

[Charmin]

As s4sugar has stated, there would be no possibility of you getting a cremello foal by using Legrande on a bay mare.

Can you possibly send (by pm) or post some photos of your mare, so I can have a look at her colour. There are some sooty buckskins and bayskins that do a great job of disguising themselves as bays!!!

Here she is...

Thanks for all your replies! Very interesting to read. Out of interest, does anyone know the % possibilities of all colours? Cheers

 

[Meowy Catkin]

She's Seal brown not bay.

 

[Charmin]

Ooo that's interesting. What's the difference between seal brown and bay? Is it the lighter muzzle?

You learn something new everyday!

 

[Meowy Catkin]

This site explains colour very nicely with lots of photos. Look at the cream section as well as the seal brown explanation (both on the page linked to below).

http://www.whitehorseproductions.com/ecg_basics2.html

 

[mynutmeg]

Going to be cheeky and take advantage of the colour experts on here - this is my mare who is down on her passport as 'dark bay'
Any thoughts as to whether this is correct or not?

Thanks

 

[Meowy Catkin]

She looks Seal brown too.

 

[mynutmeg]

ty - what I find fascinating is the colour change when she's clipped, she's goes almost silver

 

[Meowy Catkin]

That sounds very snazzy - do you have a photo?

 

[mynutmeg]

I should do - shall go have a hunt

 

[mynutmeg]

Here you go

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Thank you

 

[mynutmeg]

No probs - I do like her when she's all clipped out

 

[carolineg]

Can I take advantage too?!!
I have a seal brown mare who is in foal to an Andalusian (Macadenio Mac) we're on day 352! I know we have a 50% chance of foal greying out but any ideas what we might get?
If I can work out how to put pictures on I will!

 

[Meowy Catkin]

What colour was the stallion before he greyed out (does he definitely only have one copy of grey)?

What colours were/are his sire and dam?

Also what colours were/are your mare's sire and dam?

 

[s4sugar]

The stallion is called Macedonio and is heterozygous for grey.

Can't find if he carries red. May be a chance he is dun.

 

[cruiseline]

The stallion is called Macedonio and is heterozygous for grey.

Can't find if he carries red. May be a chance he is dun.

I think you mean 'buckskin', as true 'dun' is very rare in andalusians, as yet there is still no genetic test to determine where it originates from and some say it actually doesn't exist in the breed, but is just counter shading!!!

 

[s4sugar]

I mean dun.

No sign of cream in his pedigree but pointers towards duns.
I do really object to drivel pedigrees on stud cards though -if you've looked at it you will know what I mean.

 

[templewood]

Macedonio-MAC is my stallion and yes, it appears that he does carry some form of dun. He has taken part in the UC Davis research project into the dun gene in Iberians. It was thought that the grey gene was producing dun type markings, but this is clearly not the case with him. His 2012 filly, out of a PRE mare not carrying the cream gene, is a non-greying dun. She has leg barring, dorsal stripe, multicoloured mane and darker shaded head. At the moment she is buckskin colour. When she was born she looked like a dunskin. There are quite a few dun PRE's actually. Hope that's not too much drivel!

 

[s4sugar]

Macedonio-MAC is my stallion and yes, it appears that he does carry some form of dun. He has taken part in the UC Davis research project into the dun gene in Iberians. It was thought that the grey gene was producing dun type markings, but this is clearly not the case with him. His 2012 filly, out of a PRE mare not carrying the cream gene, is a non-greying dun. She has leg barring, dorsal stripe, multicoloured mane and darker shaded head. At the moment she is buckskin colour. When she was born she looked like a dunskin. There are quite a few dun PRE's actually. Hope that's not too much drivel!

The stud card was hard work - what is wrong with a pedigree chart with a complete set of ancestors and listing selected achievments?

 

[carolineg]

Hi my mares dam was seal brown or bay I'm not sure which having read previous threads! Her sire is Kings Composer who is bay. My mare has a full sister somewhere who is liver chestnut. We're running a 'book' at home!
Hi Templewood! We are very excited and still waiting!! On day 353 today :/

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Hi my mares dam was seal brown or bay I'm not sure which having read previous threads! Her sire is Kings Composer who is bay. My mare has a full sister somewhere who is liver chestnut. We're running a 'book' at home!

Going by the above photos KC is a seal brown that has been misidentified as bay.

 

[cruiseline]

Macedonio-MAC is my stallion and yes, it appears that he does carry some form of dun. He has taken part in the UC Davis research project into the dun gene in Iberians. It was thought that the grey gene was producing dun type markings, but this is clearly not the case with him. His 2012 filly, out of a PRE mare not carrying the cream gene, is a non-greying dun. She has leg barring, dorsal stripe, multicoloured mane and darker shaded head. At the moment she is buckskin colour. When she was born she looked like a dunskin. There are quite a few dun PRE's actually. Hope that's not too much drivel!

Thank you for the clarification, it is true when they say you learn something new everyday.

 

[templewood]

Absolutely nothing. Each to their own. I find that most stud cards don't really tell you anything and I'm left wondering how people expect me to make a decision on so little info., but then I wouldn't look at a stallions photo and pedigree then put my mare in foal to it either. Everybody has their own ideas.