George the rescue JRT - help!

[ponyparty]

You may have seen my thread a while back about the 11 yo JRT, George, that we found running about in the road, and ended up rehoming with us.

Well, unfortunately it's not going as well as I had hoped. Sorry for the essay, wanted to get all details in, probably still loads I've missed though.

- He and my original dog, Frank, have not gelled. They tolerate one another, but they're by no means "friends". George won't play with Frank (which is all Frank wants to do, all day long, all the time!) and won't let Frank have his toys, or play fetch. I worry about leaving them alone together in case I inadvertently leave something desirable (one of the baby's toys or something) by accident and they scrap over it.

- He is also VERY reactive towards other dogs when out on walks, which is rubbing off on my original dog - this is something I have worked so hard to avoid with Frank, and now all my hard work is being undone (well it's not, because I don't walk them together anywhere that there might be other dogs - this is quite limiting though as you can imagine! Not to mention difficult to fit around caring for my baby).

- He has absolutely no recall - cops a deaf'un to commands out and about, so has to stay on a long-line (when we're in safe, dog-free, enclosed space). Pulls like a train on lead, I can't manage him and the pushchair.

- He barks at EVERYTHING - people passing the house, other dogs, barks in the car every time we stop at lights or junctions. Barks if you pick up your keys and thinks he's coming with you, and carries on barking. So far I've "only" let him bark for 10 minutes - hoping he will stop eventually (this is how I trained my other dog - sit back down as soon as barking starts, wait for it to stop, then continue with the rest of getting things ready to go for walk, repeat as many times as necessary). But 10 minutes of solid barking later he was still going full pelt, I had to go out, I do not have time to spend on training him out of this issue. I have just got to admit it - I have not got time to retrain this dog. My life is too busy, fitting everything around baby.

This is causing me great stress, it's causing my original dog great stress (which I hadn't really realised until now), and it's therefore causing the rest of the family great stress

My friend offered to have him - she also has another dog, a male chihauha X. He is on trial with her now, but she's going to have to bring him back tomorrow; he has been food aggressive with the other dog (funnily enough hasn't tried this with my dog!). I really believe he NEEDS to be an only dog, I think he always has been. While he's been away on trial, my original dog has been much more relaxed, he's been playing with his toys loads, he is back to his usual self - I hadn't realised, until we were George-free, how much it had affected him. I feel terrible.

I admit: it was stupid of me to have this rescue dog. I thought I was doing the right thing, I just wanted to help the poor little unwanted soul.

So, I'm trying to work out what to do next, please help with any suggestions! So far I have thought of the following:

- Put him on trial with another friend of mine - she has no dogs, has had a dog previously. Has a 2 year old child - he has been amazing with my baby, no reason to believe he would be otherwise with the two year old. But if it doesn't work out he's back with us again - more upheaval for him, is it the right thing to do? She also isn't that experienced with difficult dogs, doubt she would invest in training etc to help with general manners and dog reactivity.

- send him back to the dogs home - REALLY don't want to do this, he's 11 years old, finds other dogs in close proximity very stressful, he had lost his voice from barking so much when I got him out of there, they were feeding him kibble that gave him terrible upset stomach, I don't want to put him through that again. Not to mention that they have a policy I don't particularly like: if it doesn't work out with a dog you've had from them, you can take it back and get a credit note and get a different dog out - I really hope they have a limit on how many times you can do this, sounds like a free ticket for joyriders to me!

- see if a smaller local rescue can take him - would feel awful about this too, they're all so overstretched, overflowing with unwanted animals, plus it's more upheaval for him again...

- take him to training/behaviourist to try and get him to a point where I can cope with him - not going to happen, I can't afford it and don't have time - already don't have time, going back to work in October and we're moving house at some point soon too! Stress central!

- have him PTS - seems a bit drastic! I know there are worse fates for an old dog and I'm quite hard about stuff like this but geez, seems a bit unfair!

Any other suggestions? Or does anyone know anyone who might be able to take him on? I feel absolutely awful but he really cannot stay with us. I want to do the right thing by him and see him placed in a quiet home with no other pets (he's fine with horses! Chases cats etc though). He is a sweet little thing and just wants to cuddle up with you on the sofa (won't let my original dog do so, of course...).

What should I do?

 

[AmyMay]

God, I really feel for you. I have nothing helpful to say, but wanted to offer my support.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Speak honestly to a local rescue that uses fosterers, see if they can help?

 

[ponyparty]

Ah forgot about fosterers (duh!). Can’t see the woods for the trees sometimes when you’re in a stressful situation. Will have a ring around tomorrow. It all sounds so hollow when I put it into words, and so like the people who didn’t want him before, I feel so guilty.

 

[AmyMay]

You have nothing to feel guilty about. You’ve obviously tried really hard with the little guy

 

[dogatemysalad]

I think you're right about him being suited to being an only dog. He sounds like he's been chronically anxious and a quiet home with someone who's around all day might suit him very well.

 

[JennBags]

Poor little chap, and poor you, you've done your absolute best with him.
Is he crate trained? Just wondering if crating him might be a resolution, especially when you're out.
We have had Juno here for over a year now, but only now is Suzie is beginning to really accept her.

 

[ponyparty]

Don’t think he’s crate trained - he isn’t trained at all, full stop! We do have a crate, left open for Frank to come and go as he pleases - George doesn’t go in it though. He does sometimes hide under the coffee table in the living room - which also makes me think he isn’t happy/doesn’t feel safe. There isn’t space for another crate (another reason we’re moving house!).

Currently sitting with Frank cuddled up next to me on the sofa - he hasn’t done this the whole time George has been with us, George gets in there and won’t let Frank up. Dreading getting George back tomorrow, now that I see how content Frank is without him!

 

[AmyMay]

Don’t let George dictate what happens, you’re the boss, not him. You choose which dog sits next to you.....

 

[ponyparty]

Don’t let George dictate what happens, you’re the boss, not him. You choose which dog sits next to you.....

I agree! That doesn’t work though; Frank does not work want to sit by me when George is around - even if I insist George does not sit on the sofa. He just won’t do it, clearly George is the boss. Me trying to interfere with their hierarchy just doesn’t have any effect and in fact it could make things worse. I have tried shutting George out in the kitchen, he just starts barking. Very irritating in the hour or so of peace we get to sit together after baby/horse/work etc all done for the day!

 

[CorvusCorax]

Rehome direct, as seamlessly as possible with no kennel time if it's possible.
Your friend with no dogs might work.
It sounds like you don't really like having him around, and he will pick up on that. Not having a go, I'm sure its very stressful, I've been there.

With the best will in the world, it's a bit of an ask to expect an unknown, elderly dog found straying, to fit into a young family home with a resident dog.
He doesn't know how to act.
Neither would old Bert, who has lived in an old people's home for ten years, if he suddenly moved in with you and 13-year-old Dwayne wanted him to play on the Wii with him.
Terrible analogy but best I can do at this time of night.

You also have to be realistic...no one is going to train an 11 year old terrier to do/not do anything. Whatever happens now is management.
The barking could be stress, it could be because he can't see or hear too well, or just because he likes barking.
He's set in his ways. Same as old Bert would be. You wouldn't be able to train him not to like drinking tea or stop shouting 'WHAT'S THAT' because his glasses are crap or his hearing aid doesn't work.

I was in the position where I had to bring two large, mature males into the same household, one of whom had been on his own for over seven years...no way would I ever expect them to be best buds.
I'm in a position where I can run an airlock system and exercise them separately, it's hard work and not for everyone (hell, it's not for anyone 😂) but I owe these two dogs their later lives stress-free and I adore them both.

When I was small and we had dogs that didn't get on, as you say, it was too much for my Mum really, but she's bonkers, bless her.
You've done your best, now time for him to go somewhere better suited to him and his grumpy old sod needs

 

[meleeka]

I’d worry about whether he’d find a home as his age tbh. I think the best you can do is ring round small rescues and tell them your predicament. He sounds just like my sisters dog a JRT X with an awful past. I think a lot can be achieved with a dog like this if somebody takes him on with experience to manage his behaviour and give him the confidence he needs.

 

[ponyparty]

Well i just collected him for my friend’s house, he was SO pleased to see me 😭😭😭😭

I don’t think it’s going to work with my other friend, I’m not sure her boyfriend is on board. I am going to ring around some small local rescues today when I get back from doing the horses.
We’ve also got my mum’s two Maltese overnight tonight, just what I needed (!)

 

[AmyMay]

Keep us posted xx

 

[windand rain]

If he was a horse what would you do most people would recommend having him PTS and as drastic as it sounds that may be better than more upheaval with new owners. You have done your best for him the fact he pulls like a train rules him out as a lap dog for an elderly person but that would his best bet if you can find that sort of environment either that or PTS I wouldnt critise you for that

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

If he was a horse what would you do most people would recommend having him PTS and as drastic as it sounds that may be better than more upheaval with new owners. You have done your best for him the fact he pulls like a train rules him out as a lap dog for an elderly person but that would his best bet if you can find that sort of environment either that or PTS I wouldnt critise you for that

I'm inclined to agree with this: I was involved over the Easter with a situation where a dog (already from a rescue) had been rehomed with a totally unsuitable elderly couple who couldn't cope with him. He'd apparently bitten the lady and she wanted rid of him within the hour, and (me being me) had just come home, gone onto FB, and as this was a rescue where we'd got our dog, offered to help! I ended up doing a two-hours drive to pick the beastie up, and back again! Then someone else from the rescue picked him up, to take him on to her place for "remedial".

Luckily I had a free stable and could keep this little one totally isolated from my dogs, but can just imagine the nightmare it would have been had we got them both together!

You have done the best you can; you have had to seriously disrupt your existing dog's routine, and yours as well, and you're finding it just isn't working out. Your existing options are slim, and you feel it wouldn't be kind to put him back into a rescue centre as it isn't easy to rehome an elderly, and disruptive, dog. I personally do not feel that you should be feeling in any way guilty therefore if you were to consider the PTS option in the circumstances.

Bless you for trying.

 

[Clodagh]

If he was a horse what would you do most people would recommend having him PTS and as drastic as it sounds that may be better than more upheaval with new owners. You have done your best for him the fact he pulls like a train rules him out as a lap dog for an elderly person but that would his best bet if you can find that sort of environment either that or PTS I wouldnt critise you for that

I would totally agree with this. You have given him some lovely weeks with you and tried your very best and I totally applaud you. I had a dog I didn't like, our dogs hated and was causing everyone stress so I sold her, but she was young, pedigree and trainable. You have tried, no one can ask any more. You owe it to your first dog and your family not to let him stress you out. Not his fault, it is just the way it is.

 

[ponyparty]

I know exactly what I'd do if he were a horse, it just feels different with him being a dog.

He definitely wouldn't be good for an elderly person, being so strong and reactive towards other dogs. I can't really imagine that anyone looking around rescues for a dog would want to take on an old dog with the issues he has.

This makes me very sad though - he is such a sweet, cuddly little thing, he just wants to be next to you on the sofa (with no other dogs, ha). He's amazing with my baby, he's more tolerant of him than Frank is. He's a real people person.

Someone mentioned above with the barking that it could be anxiety related - I dismissed this at first but actually, having observed him since collecting him from my friends' house this morning, I think there may be something in that, particularly in the car.

He needs a quiet home with no other pets, with somewhere to go for walks nearby without other dogs invading his space (or a person experienced with dealing with reactive dogs). And not many car journeys. It doesn't sound impossible... Just unlikely.

Having just said that he needs no other pets, he's now lying on my mum's Maltese' bitch's bed, with the other (male) Maltese (who is also reactive towards other dogs and WILL bite) on the other bed next to him! Both fast asleep! Unbelievable. It's like he knows we're discussing his destiny.

 

[planete]

I would be inclined to stop taking him for walks and see whether he can adapt to a life spent being played with, taught tricks or any other stimulating home activities instead. This might allow him to start relaxing enough to be rehomable to one of the rare households which might be able to offer him the same environment. Failing that, I agree with pts as this is not a happy dog and very difficult to rehome.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I know exactly what I'd do if he were a horse, it just feels different with him being a dog.

He definitely wouldn't be good for an elderly person, being so strong and reactive towards other dogs. I can't really imagine that anyone looking around rescues for a dog would want to take on an old dog with the issues he has.

This makes me very sad though - he is such a sweet, cuddly little thing, he just wants to be next to you on the sofa (with no other dogs, ha). He's amazing with my baby, he's more tolerant of him than Frank is. He's a real people person.

Someone mentioned above with the barking that it could be anxiety related - I dismissed this at first but actually, having observed him since collecting him from my friends' house this morning, I think there may be something in that, particularly in the car.

He needs a quiet home with no other pets, with somewhere to go for walks nearby without other dogs invading his space (or a person experienced with dealing with reactive dogs). And not many car journeys. It doesn't sound impossible... Just unlikely.

Having just said that he needs no other pets, he's now lying on my mum's Maltese' bitch's bed, with the other (male) Maltese (who is also reactive towards other dogs and WILL bite) on the other bed next to him! Both fast asleep! Unbelievable. It's like he knows we're discussing his destiny.

Would your mum take him to live with the Maltese?

 

[CorvusCorax]

Most nuisance barking is stress/anxiety related, it's how they communicate that they are unhappy, unsure, on guard, trying to tell you that the postman is coming to murder you and steal all your stuff, etc etc.
He's probably not been in a car much. Think of the car from a dog's point of view, particularly a small dog, it's small, enclosed, elevated, noisy, it moves and everything outside is moving past them very fast, it's a completely alien environment. You'd be surprised how many dogs can't cope with being elevated or being on a moving surface like a wobbly board or table, times that by ten in a car.

 

[ponyparty]

Would your mum take him to live with the Maltese?

No way! She went absolutely nuts when I told her we were taking him on, as it would be extra stress for me - we really fell out over it and didn't speak for a few days. How annoying that she was right! Still glad I took him in though, he'd probably have been stressed out his head with a runny bum in the dogs home still if I hadn't.

She has her hands full with her two already, and has said that once hers go she doesn't want any more dogs. Og and she has Maltese because they don't moult - she's allergic to shedding dogs. The dog Maltese is dog reactive so she already has one that's a pain on walks; the bitch's health is starting to fail, she's also 11 and has had a couple of funny turns recently including her back end temporarily going for a few minutes. So it's definitely not something my mum could, or would, do.

 

[ponyparty]

Most nuisance barking is stress/anxiety related, it's how they communicate that they are unhappy, unsure, on guard, trying to tell you that the postman is coming to murder you and steal all your stuff, etc etc.
He's probably not been in a car much. Think of the car from a dog's point of view, particularly a small dog, it's small, enclosed, elevated, noisy, it moves and everything outside is moving past them very fast, it's a completely alien environment. You'd be surprised how many dogs can't cope with being elevated or being on a moving surface like a wobbly board or table, times that by ten in a car.

Yeah, it's a big ask, I always think this about horses that don't load/travel well too. Such an unnatural environment for an animal, we do ask them to put a lot of trust in us.

I feel so sad for him that he's been let down by his previous owners, who had him for so long and didn't bother to try and sort these issues out while he was young; instead they've just shut him in a tiny kitchen (they actually admitted this to me) all day and night and "managed" him that way. It's no wonder he doesn't want to be shut in the kitchen away from us really. Poor little dude.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I'm not defending them, but a lot of this stuff is genetic, as well, and a lot of pet homes don't have the time, energy or knowledge to know what to do or take the time to work out how the dog may be feeling or why it reacts to the world in the way that it does, unfortunately.

 

[ponyparty]

I'm not defending them, but a lot of this stuff is genetic, as well, and a lot of pet homes don't have the time, energy or knowledge to know what to do or take the time to work out how the dog may be feeling or why it reacts to the world in the way that it does, unfortunately.

Yes agree that it is genetic. My other dog is a Manchester Terrier, a very sensitive breed and not for the faint hearted! When I first contacted his breeder, and all the way through the process until after I took him home (and still now 4 yeas later if I need to contact her she's there at the end of the phone!), she made it very clear that Manchesters, if not socialised properly and extremely thoroughly, can be nervy and skittish, and that as a result I would have to work doubly hard to ensure that he was well socialised as a pup. Having gone into it with eyes open, and with expert advice, we have overcome the genetic predisposition for this. I realise how lucky I was to have such a great breeder and such good advice, and how lucky my dog has been as a result. Such a shame that this seems to be the exception and not the rule; when I look around at the vast majority of other dogs we come across day to day, that is very clear! And it's the dogs that suffer for it at the end of the day

 

[puppystitch]

Don't assume 'elderly' people won't be able to cope with him because he pulls - there are plenty of retired people who are still young and active but also at home much more and would love a little friend for walks and companionship. They are out there, it's just a case of finding them!

Don't feel bad in any way - you have done your best and I would have done the same in your shoes!

 

[ponyparty]

Oh yes, retired and elderly are two very different things! I just mean that to look at he is a small dog, but do not let that deceive you, he's very strong - he's nearly pulled my baby's pushchair over (not tied to it, I would never be so stupid - I was pushing it and holding the lead at the same time, it proved very difficult/borderline dangerous) - so def not suitable for someone even slightly less mobile.

Got a rescue to call that opens at 2pm, rated very highly, so we'll see what they say.

 

[{97702}]

He sounds like a perfectly standard elderly JRT to me, or maybe I’ve just been unlucky that all the ones I’ve known have been like this 😄

Whereabouts are you OP? If it reaches the stage where he will be PTS then I’ll have him

 

[ponyparty]

Oh bless you Lev. I'm in Birmingham. I do think he'd be best placed with no other dogs, but if you think you could make it work you'd be welcome to try.

I contacted that rescue this afternoon, explained the situation to the receptionist; one of the carers is going to call me back to discuss further. She did say that, although he's old and has his issues, the small dogs do tend to go fairly quickly. I said I'd be happy to foster him until someone suitable is found (can't stand the thought of him stressed out in kennels again!), but I do think I'll have to put a time limit on this. What would be reasonable?

 

[{97702}]

Oh that’s handy, you are just up the road 😊 have a chat with the rescue and see what they say, I doubt they will find someone immediately however!

From what you’ve said I can’t see that he needs to be on his own, but he can be kept mostly apart from my lot if needed or in with Amy who is a similar age to him so he doesn’t feel overwhelmed 😊 There is no way I leave toys around ever with 4 sighthounds in the house, so that certainly wouldn’t be a flash point 😄