Getting a horse in a better outline

L

littlefluffball

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 February 2019
Messages
190
Visit site
I have posted on here now and then over the past few months after taking on a "share" of my friends ex racer. Delighted to say he is doing great and we have our paces pretty well established (I posted alot about his rush rush rush mentality) He is in great shape and really I am delighted with him :)

I now want to focus on getting him into an outline. He still holds his head high (not throwing it in the air, just carries it that way) and I just want to get him into a better (but not extreme!) "bend" he can't jump so our aim is to work on dressage (probably not compete - not at any level anyway, just for our own focus etc) horses I have worked on before have always been pretty easy to get into an outline as many of them have done some competing etc in the past. given that he is an ex racer he has not. So how do I begin?

I should add he currently has a market harborough. His owner put that on him and while it is not what I would have done i must admit it does help. She is quite flexible about it and is happy for me to ride without clipping onto the reins.
 
Lots of circles, lots of bending him around your hand and leg, lots of pole work, lots of hacking. I'm sure you already know that a horse can be in an outline without working properly. I also think it's easy to underestimate how much of a contact is needed to have a horse on the bit and working through the whole body. You'll find you need less and less as the horse builds up the right muscles and can hold himself more easily.
 
I think perhaps consider the change in his body that needs to happen in order to carry a rider in a completely new way from when he was racing, for him to work in an 'outline' and take more weight behind and work over his back more. This is a slow and steady process and try to expect small improvements at a time.
As much hacking as you can do especially using hills, you can just feed him into the contact and ask him to maintain it for small amounts at a time and let it out again, gradually building the muscles and his ability to use them. Just over a course of months build this up so its held more for each time, once you have him in the contact make sure your hands follow his mouth, just use a half halt if you need to then let the rein back out and look for signs he is seeking the contact not evading it (going above or behind the bit)
Long lining over poles and in hand work so he can use his back end without the weight of a rider.
Lots of stretching and long and low work which may take some patient and gentle teaching from you. Also consider stretching (carrot stretching and actually warming up his back before you get on).
I could carry on for ages but hope some of the above helps for now x
 
SpringArising said:
Lots of circles, lots of bending him around your hand and leg, lots of pole work, lots of hacking. I'm sure you already know that a horse can be in an outline without working properly. I also think it's easy to underestimate how much of a contact is needed to have a horse on the bit and working through the whole body. You'll find you need less and less as the horse builds up the right muscles and can hold himself more easily.
Click to expand...

Thank you spring arising. We are currently doing a lot of bending. His owner tends to hack him and I do the schooling but she only really gets out once a week on him if that so maybe i need to up that. His balance is improving greatly now that he is getting iftter and building the right muscles up. I think you are right about the amount of contact too. As he is the most "green/unexperie3nced" horse I exercise I think I am a bit over cautious about that actually
 
Littlebear said:
I think perhaps consider the change in his body that needs to happen in order to carry a rider in a completely new way from when he was racing, for him to work in an 'outline' and take more weight behind and work over his back more. This is a slow and steady process and try to expect small improvements at a time.
As much hacking as you can do especially using hills, you can just feed him into the contact and ask him to maintain it for small amounts at a time and let it out again, gradually building the muscles and his ability to use them. Just over a course of months build this up so its held more for each time, once you have him in the contact make sure your hands follow his mouth, just use a half halt if you need to then let the rein back out and look for signs he is seeking the contact not evading it (going above or behind the bit)
Long lining over poles and in hand work so he can use his back end without the weight of a rider.
Lots of stretching and long and low work which may take some patient and gentle teaching from you. Also consider stretching (carrot stretching and actually warming up his back before you get on).
I could carry on for ages but hope some of the above helps for now x
Click to expand...

Thanks little bear. We do our carrot stretches regularly! i think we probably do need to do more pole work. I am happy to take all the time required - it took months just to get a decent trot but it was worth every (sometimes frustrating) minute of it :) He is just such a star and really eager to please (if a but cheeky) and really just needs the time and work put in. I just want to make sure I do him justice :)
 
Although you are further on than this https://dressagetoday.com/instruction/retraining-thoroughbreds-for-dressage-12539
it's an interesting article to read.

we are on ex racer number 3 and found having a really sympathetic dressage instructor is key who has a good understanding of how the horse's muscles need to change and rebuild over time. Even if you only have occasional lessons. I think of it in human terms like a 100m sprinter becoming a rhythmic gymnast which gives a good idea of the changes required and the time it will take.

Lots of lateral work to soften on circles, and leg yield across the diagonal - start short distances and build up until you can go from two opposing diagonal markers will help as well as transitions, hacking and pole work. Don't be scared of taking the contact - if he's got nothing to go into he won't understand. Enjoy the journey!
 
Tihama said:
I cringe when I see people say take a strong contact - you might know what you mean but others might not.

https://www.goodhorsemanship.com.au/Rein Contact/reincontact.html

This is a useful explanation OP.
Click to expand...
I thought the article was good up to the point of the author saying that 10kg of rein pressure can be correct. That's 22lbs of a metal bit on the horses tongue and bars:eek:The pain that much pressure would cause surely can't be justified.
 
the best contact or true outline is when the horse learns to reach forward into the contact, he will not do this until his back is stronger, then it should happen because he is carrying the weight of himself and the rider and slightly raising his back, and reaches over his back into the contact,and starting to work off his back end and the energy generated propels the whole thing forwards in a way that lets the hind legs start to come under the body and carry, then he can carry his head in a good place

the contact i offer to start should be fair and consistent following the mouth, when he starts to work, when he comes onto the bit it will become lighter, not heavier , because that the whole point is get the horse to improve in his training, and thats how we know he getting there,

lightness is the proof of good training , we are not working out in the gym, what terrible way to suggest having so much pressure on a horses mouth, but i`m sure everyone has more sense! xx
 
tristar said:
the best contact or true outline is when the horse learns to reach forward into the contact, he will not do this until his back is stronger, then it should happen because he is carrying the weight of himself and the rider and slightly raising his back, and reaches over his back into the contact,and starting to work off his back end and the energy generated propels the whole thing forwards in a way that lets the hind legs start to come under the body and carry, then he can carry his head in a good place

the contact i offer to start should be fair and consistent following the mouth, when he starts to work, when he comes onto the bit it will become lighter, not heavier , because that the whole point is get the horse to improve in his training, and thats how we know he getting there,

lightness is the proof of good training , we are not working out in the gym, what terrible way to suggest having so much pressure on a horses mouth, but i`m sure everyone has more sense! xx
Click to expand...
That's a great description. It does feel lovely when they reach out and and take the bit.
 
Get on the floor on all fours. Now put yourself in "an outline" - you will find that it loads the part carried on your arms. That's a false outline
Next bring your knees as far under your body as you can. You will find that in order to not fall on your face you will have to raise your shoulders and your head. To relax in that position your head will naturally fall into a position where your chin is not far from your breastbone. You are now in an outline.
It all comes from behind the saddle along with relaxation and lightness - do lots of circles and serpentines until you can feel that offering of relaxation in the jaw (you can educate the horse to relax his jaw by doing it from the ground in hand - just apply a little pressure and release when he gives to you) because his body is balanced.
 
JillA .... this is an excellent way to explain it, i have been helping a young girl whose horse is poking his nose and she has been told to fiddle with the reins until he goes in an outline. i have tried to explain why this is wrong and you have given me a brilliant way to get through to her. thankyou... i will use this later today...:)
 
JillA said:
Get on the floor on all fours. Now put yourself in "an outline" - you will find that it loads the part carried on your arms. That's a false outline
Next bring your knees as far under your body as you can. You will find that in order to not fall on your face you will have to raise your shoulders and your head. To relax in that position your head will naturally fall into a position where your chin is not far from your breastbone. You are now in an outline.
It all comes from behind the saddle along with relaxation and lightness - do lots of circles and serpentines until you can feel that offering of relaxation in the jaw (you can educate the horse to relax his jaw by doing it from the ground in hand - just apply a little pressure and release when he gives to you) because his body is balanced.
Click to expand...

well i got her to do this and the penny dropped and she now understands what i have been saying for the last couple of weeks, i am not a teacher, just helping a friends daughter to improve and these sort of explanations are so useful... thanks again JillA you have really helped...
 
One exercise in trot I find really helps is leg yeild on both reins down the 3/4 line do a good few then do one half of the long side in shoulder in then the other half in quarters in, and straightening in the corners do about 4 circuits like this on each rein, helps my Arabs so much as they can be quite rigid and tense to start off this just gets them so supple through there body.
 
splashgirl45 said:
JillA .... this is an excellent way to explain it, i have been helping a young girl whose horse is poking his nose and she has been told to fiddle with the reins until he goes in an outline. i have tried to explain why this is wrong and you have given me a brilliant way to get through to her. thankyou... i will use this later today...:)
Click to expand...

Lol I just read that as "picking his nose" :D :D :D
 
Lots of ideas that are getting towards the right lines, in a somewhat linear fashion - but this is the key:

Nicnac said:
Lots of lateral work to soften on circles, and leg yield across the diagonal - start short distances and build up until you can go from two opposing diagonal markers will help as well as transitions, hacking and pole work. Don't be scared of taking the contact - if he's got nothing to go into he won't understand. Enjoy the journey!
Click to expand...

The conversation about understanding 'taking the contact' is for all to read above, so I won't re-hash it. But - with any horse, be it a newly broken 3yo, retraining an 8yo ex-racer, or dealing with that 15yo hunter than now needs to go and play at Riding Club events, it's all about the lateral manoeuvrability and suppleness. Turns on the forehand (while forelegs still moving forwards), turns on the haunches (with straightness and without falling out through the hindquarter), and leg yield with correct flexion and straightness open the door to lightness.

One can do miles and miles getting suppleness in straight lines (including circles with no lateral element), but the feel of a laterally schooled horse, and therefore one truly working through in 'an outline' is miles away from board-like straight line learning.
 
greybadger19 said:
Lots of ideas that are getting towards the right lines, in a somewhat linear fashion - but this is the key:



The conversation about understanding 'taking the contact' is for all to read above, so I won't re-hash it. But - with any horse, be it a newly broken 3yo, retraining an 8yo ex-racer, or dealing with that 15yo hunter than now needs to go and play at Riding Club events, it's all about the lateral manoeuvrability and suppleness. Turns on the forehand (while forelegs still moving forwards), turns on the haunches (with straightness and without falling out through the hindquarter), and leg yield with correct flexion and straightness open the door to lightness.

One can do miles and miles getting suppleness in straight lines (including circles with no lateral element), but the feel of a laterally schooled horse, and therefore one truly working through in 'an outline' is miles away from board-like straight line learning.
Click to expand...
Lateral work does make such a difference. I also find carrot stretches useful because they show up problems with suppleness and assymetries that you can work on when schooling.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top