Getting a strong horse off your hands

[Flying_Form]

basically a friend of a friend has given me their horse to get riding again as the owner is very afraid of the horse, doesn’t ride it very often and recently had a bad fall which has left it out of work for 2 months and now she wants this horse back riding but is wary to do it herself (understandable).

Horse is surprisingly quiet and actually isn’t bad - he likes to get his own way and can be a bit quirky/nappy I.E., have a buck or a rear or just stop and refuse to move which has made his owner very very afraid of him even before the fall. This isn’t the issue I’m having however as I can deal with that - THIS HORSE IS STRONG. Now I have dealt with horses that lean or can get strong but no this horse is another level. When trotting he starts out very normal and then as you work him he leans very very heavy on your hands (to the point where I’d nearly have to stop as I can’t hold on anymore and if I loosen my grip anymore I’ll have zero contact).

I think it is because the owner is not very gentle with their hands and has two bridles for him - one with a three ring Waterford and the other with a Pelham. I think they have over bit him out of fear, and they don’t have very quiet hands and as a result has actually made him stronger. I don’t know why they did this as he was actually a plod and wasn’t strong in The beginning (I rode him when they first bought him a year and a half ago).

I’ve been riding him in a plain snaffle but he does lean. I’ve tried lots of transitions, using my body to slow down and not my hands, taking away contact to stop him leaning (doesn’t work!), circles and serpentines do work but as soon as you go on the straight he’s doing it again.

He has improved in the few days I’ve put into him but how can I get him to stop leaning so much on my hands, and use himself a bit better because he just carries everything up front and doesn’t use his hind end - you can see it when you watch him working and even HEAR it! it’s such a shame because he’s gorgeous and is actually very sweet behind it all. I’d love to get him right to give his owner a bit more confidence if anything.

 

[santas_spotty_pony]

my mare is similar and I’ve been riding with a gag with two reins - I rode off the snaffle and then only use the gag rein as a a reminder if she gets strong. I also ride her on a longer contact and give and retake so she has to seek the contact. It takes time as they have learnt to balance on the rider’s hands and now must learn to balance themselves.

 

[Spotherisk]

Loads of transitions, and don’t ride for too longer, an unfit horse will find the work much harder.

 

[LEC]

Let go and don’t allow them to sit on your hands.

 

[ycbm]

Let go and don’t allow them to sit on your hands.

Don't give him anything to lean on. There are other disciplines where horses are ridden with no contact, I would retrain him with no contact unless you want to tell him something. Then rebuild the contact once he's learned to stop pulling.
.

 

[Ample Prosecco]

Let go and don’t allow them to sit on your hands.

Yep I agree. Drop the contact completely if he leans. In the meantime you can teach soft, light contact on the ground and in halt/walk with vertical/lateral flexions and riding ground patterns from legs with 1 rein at a time. Never pulling back with 2 reins or letting him set his head against 2 reins.

 

[Highmileagecob]

A bitless bridle may help. How does he carry himself generally? Are his feet in good condition, with no thrush? Just asking because poor feet can be painful, and as the work increases or the pace picks up, the horse will try to remove himself from discomfort. You may be better off taking him right back to basics and start again with plenty of walking only sessions until he relaxes.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

My Draft horse was very strong on occasions, I found that riding with 2 reins was the key. I used a NS Universal and rode on the snaffle rein unless I needed to take up the contact on the curb rein. I agree, though, that not getting into a fight helps.

 

[Glitter's fun]

Apologies if you already covered this but he was a nice easy ride 18 months ago; now he's nappy and leaning. Are you absolutely sure he isn't uncomfortable somewhere in his back end, so putting more weight on the forehand?

 

[ihatework]

It’s not going to solve quickly - will take a good period of consistent riding.

You essentially need him taking more weight behind whilst not supporting/hanging on in front.

You will likely be half halting and releasing every flipping stride.

Anytime he even goes to take hold drop him.

I wouldn’t automatically rule out doing this initial phase in the Pelham

Also really do ask yourself ‘can this horse take more weight behind’ its very common for horses to get strong and leany when deliberately disengaging behind to avoid pain.

 

[tda]

Horse is surprisingly quiet and actually isn’t bad - he likes to get his own way and can be a bit quirky/nappy I.E., have a buck or a rear or just stop and refuse to move which has made his owner very very afraid of him even before the fall. This isn’t the issue I’m having however

Is it just me that thinks this horse has issues that possibly need vet investigation

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Is it just me that thinks this horse has issues that possibly need vet investigation

I was thinking the same if his so on the forehand and not using his back end properly that's not right, and with the napping bucking and rearing he sounds uncomfortable.

 

[Birker2020]

I expect this is frowned upon these days but we used to use a MArket Harborough on a horse that was over strong. The horse ends up pulling against himself rather than the rider which eventually deters it. Obviously it goes without saying the horse is checked out first physically to see if there is a reason why it is so strong.

Market Harborough - Fylde Saddlery

The market Harborough for horses training aid works like a running martingale when the horse is working correctly, but when needed the horse’s head is drawn down and onto the bit, it works a bit like draw reins but it allows more freedom of the horse’s neck and back. The Market Harborough for...

www.fyldesaddleryltd.co.uk

 

[maya2008]

It is often a physical reason, unless in a young horse who is still finding their balance.

 

[SpeedyPony]

I'd agree it's worth looking at the reason he's not using his hind end- it might be pain, or he might have been allowed (accidentally encouraged?) to carry himself wrong and will need strengthening work to improve his ability to work properly from behind- it might be worth trying this on the ground initially?

 

[Skib]

I am an elderly novice rider sharing a horse that leaned. She is in a snaffle bit. She had hefty rubber sectioned reins. I changed these for smooth, narrow leather reins which is what I rode with on my old long term share. If she leans, the leather reins slip trough one's fingers.
I dont know what her other riders thought. My idea had been to ride her in the new reins but change them after I had ridden. However, connecting the new reins to the bridle proved so difficult, we simply left the new leather reins on her bridle for anyone to use. No one complained. She stopped leaning.
But she would like to lean. As we leave the yard (in walk) I often give her a hefty kick and use my seat to get her hind legs moving well, and having the hind legs active and stepping well under takes her weight off the forehand and thus off the reins. It isnt very nice of me but I guess she recognises it is me riding as we then have no further leaning and I need hardly any leg for the rest of our ride.
I feel there is a dilemma here. One leaves the yard on a tarmac road with cars and one needs more rein contact for control. This rein contact almost teaches the horse to lean going down the road. And for my own safety I really do want to keep control, so dont want to lengthen the rein at that point. But neither do I want too much action, as I have had her break into trot, she believing that I have asked for it.

 

[SEL]

basically a friend of a friend has given me their horse to get riding again as the owner is very afraid of the horse, doesn’t ride it very often and recently had a bad fall which has left it out of work for 2 months and now she wants this horse back riding but is wary to do it herself (understandable).

Horse is surprisingly quiet and actually isn’t bad - he likes to get his own way and can be a bit quirky/nappy I.E., have a buck or a rear or just stop and refuse to move which has made his owner very very afraid of him even before the fall. This isn’t the issue I’m having however as I can deal with that - THIS HORSE IS STRONG. Now I have dealt with horses that lean or can get strong but no this horse is another level. When trotting he starts out very normal and then as you work him he leans very very heavy on your hands (to the point where I’d nearly have to stop as I can’t hold on anymore and if I loosen my grip anymore I’ll have zero contact).

I think it is because the owner is not very gentle with their hands and has two bridles for him - one with a three ring Waterford and the other with a Pelham. I think they have over bit him out of fear, and they don’t have very quiet hands and as a result has actually made him stronger. I don’t know why they did this as he was actually a plod and wasn’t strong in The beginning (I rode him when they first bought him a year and a half ago).

I’ve been riding him in a plain snaffle but he does lean. I’ve tried lots of transitions, using my body to slow down and not my hands, taking away contact to stop him leaning (doesn’t work!), circles and serpentines do work but as soon as you go on the straight he’s doing it again.

He has improved in the few days I’ve put into him but how can I get him to stop leaning so much on my hands, and use himself a bit better because he just carries everything up front and doesn’t use his hind end - you can see it when you watch him working and even HEAR it! it’s such a shame because he’s gorgeous and is actually very sweet behind it all. I’d love to get him right to give his owner a bit more confidence if anything.

I was another who read this and wondered about discomfort.

What happens if you drop the contact completely? I got told off for suggesting that on another thread but actually its quite telling in terms of whether the horse suddenly breathes a sigh of relief and starts to relax or still feels tense and horrible. Just do laps of the arena in trot and see what happens. I had to do it with a little pony a while back who had spent too much time with kids hanging onto her mouth because she was whizzy. After a few laps of me rising to the trot at a million miles an hour she ground to a halt and actually started listening.

 

[Jellymoon]

I’m also thinking discomfort, only because recently one of mine has had a change to his shoeing (combined with a change in saddle fit) due to ‘just not quite rightness’ and he’s suddenly stopped ploughing me along in the forehand. It was quite a radical difference I wasn’t expecting, I just thought his leaning/pulling was a schooling issue/excitement I needed to work on.

 

[dorsetladette]

I'm thinking discomfort tbh. He sounds more heavy in the hand than strong. you say you have to stop as he leans so much. He wouldn't stop easily if he was strong. It sounds like he's using you as leverage to move his weight forward.

If he's had some time off and had some schooling issues with his owner it could be pain related. Did owner look at reasons for behaviour? does he have regular physio and saddle checks?