getting a trailer downgraded/rated

M

mole

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 April 2007
Messages
643
Location
Gloucestershire
Visit site
does anyone know how much it costs and what you need to do?

has anyone had it done to their trailer so they can safely tow with an estate car legally?

thanks
 
You could replate, but the chances are you would not be able to take more than one horse in the trailer at a time. (Asked the expert wagon drivers in my house!). You have to contact VOSA for replating - local testing station.

I have a light trailer, so can easily tow with an estate car, but I can see it would be a problem when pulling an Ifor or something heavy.
 
Last edited:
mole said:
does anyone know how much it costs and what you need to do?

has anyone had it done to their trailer so they can safely tow with an estate car legally?

thanks
Click to expand...
There is no need to do this unless you only have a post 97 license and not full trailer intitlement , the main things to remember is you must not exceed the towing capacity of your car or the maximum weight of the trailer...
 
The whole concept of downrating a manufacturers reccomended weight is a nonsense. It has absolutely no meaning.You must not exceed what the trailer can take,what the towing vehicle can take and what your license allows.The manufacturers plate merely gives figures that their engineers have calculated the trailer is safe for ,and in particular that the braking performance can be calculated from.
 
Technicaly if the trailer is say rated at 3 1/2 tonnes and your toweing vehicle only say 2 1/2 tonnes
then it would be illegal because you have potenial to tow more than toweing capacity of the toweing vehicle! I know, I know the law is an ass and most people toweing probably breaking it ( me included) but that is how it is. I know a few people that have been warned over it.
 
skye_and_i said:
Technicaly if the trailer is say rated at 3 1/2 tonnes and your toweing vehicle only say 2 1/2 tonnes
then it would be illegal because you have potenial to tow more than toweing capacity of the toweing vehicle! I know, I know the law is an ass and most people toweing probably breaking it ( me included) but that is how it is. I know a few people that have been warned over it.
Click to expand...
THERE IS NO RELATIONSHIP IN UK LAW BETWEEN THE RATED WEIGHT OF THE TRAILER AND THE TOWING VEHICLE IN THE CASE OF TRAILERS UNDER 3500KG.
the law isnt a ass in this case, the pillocks who dont know the law are!!!
 
perfect11s said:
THERE IS NO RELATIONSHIP IN UK LAW BETWEEN THE RATED WEIGHT OF THE TRAILER AND THE TOWING VEHICLE IN THE CASE OF TRAILERS UNDER 3500KG.
the law isnt a ass in this case, the pillocks who dont know the law are!!!
Click to expand...

Well if that is the case, which I hope it is I look forward to calling the man from vosa a pillock if he try's pulling me on it!
 
thanks for the replies. iwas under the impression that due to my trailer having a capacity of 2300kg that i needed a car that can tow 2300kg and that if i towed this with an estate that has a towing max of 1600kg then i would be breaking the law even if the trailer was empty.

i very rarely tow two horses and if i got a different car then i just wouldnt be able to and im ok with that.

so if i get a car that has a max tow of 1600kg and my trailer weighs 980kg unladen plus pony 450kg that gives total weight of 1430kg then i would be driving within the law? regardless of the fact the trailer has a gross laden weight of 2300kg?

i hope someone can follow that?! :-o

edited to say - i have a licence that means i didnt need to take a trailer towing test - thank god!!
 
mole said:
thanks for the replies. iwas under the impression that due to my trailer having a capacity of 2300kg that i needed a car that can tow 2300kg and that if i towed this with an estate that has a towing max of 1600kg then i would be breaking the law even if the trailer was empty.

i very rarely tow two horses and if i got a different car then i just wouldnt be able to and im ok with that.

so if i get a car that has a max tow of 1600kg and my trailer weighs 980kg unladen plus pony 450kg that gives total weight of 1430kg then i would be driving within the law? regardless of the fact the trailer has a gross laden weight of 2300kg?

i hope someone can follow that?! :-o

edited to say - i have a licence that means i didnt need to take a trailer towing test - thank god!!
Click to expand...
yes you would be ok but remember tack, water carriers, feed ect
when working out weights, however I think you would be much safer with a bigger vehicle for comfort, ease of towing, and the reliabilty of it.... and you're much less likely to be stopped if things look up to the job..
 
I bought my trailer new from Ifor Williams and consulted them over this issue as my car can tow two tonnes. They changed the plate to reflect this so my 505 matches the car. Didn't cost anything. As far as I know the trailer can be rerated should I get a bigger car or need to sell it. For me its peace of mind, I understood that the car should only tow a trailer that is rated within the car's towing limit. I tow one horse or two ponies so stay well within my limit. There is a lot of confusion over this and my advice would be to be as careful as possible.
 
Quote from "Towing and the Law" supplied with my trailer.

"It is strongly recommended that a driver does not tow a partly - laden trailer if the trailer's plated weight is greater than that of the manufacturer's maximum towed weight for the towing vehicle. This is because of the risk of accidentally exceeding the vehicle manufacturer's limit and so operating illegally and unsafely even if the trailer's own maximum unladen weight is not exceeded."

So not essential-but still a good idea imo.
 
What utter coblers,thats one step away from saying dont tow a trailer at all then you cant exceed the towing limit. Anyone who doesnt know the capacities of their vehicle and trailer,and the actual weight they have at any one time ,has no business being on a public highway.
 
As has been said, if you have B+E entitlement on your licence, there is no UK law that relates trailer MAM to car's towing capacity.

Obviously the higher the towing capacity of your car compared to the weight it is towing, the better, and as others have mentioned don't forget to add in the extras. Plus, towing with non-4x4 will cause more wear and tear on the vehicle, so be prepared to replace brakes/clutch/suspension parts more regularly than normal.

Your trailer manufacturer should be able to provide you with a new plate showing the new MAM. I had to take mine to an official IW dealer to have the old plate taken off and the new one put on, but they did this for free. Head office sent out the new plate directly to the dealer. You can change it anytime in exactly the same way. MAM can be changed to anything inbetween the range shown on the hitch.
 
FigJam said:
Mike- agree that the statement above is utter nonsense! Just because a trailer has a certain number stamped on the plate on the chassis, doesn't mean people won't overload it anyway?!
Click to expand...
The other thing about all this is light trailers under 3500kg dont need a ministry plate or annual mot!! whereas bigger trailers over 3500kg do and need air brakes and have a ministy plate like in the cab of a lorry with the maximum permisable weights on it which can be lower than the design weight ... As mike said its up to the user to keep within the maximum allowable weights for the tow vehicle and the trailer they(police or VOSA) can only do you for weight if they put your outfit on the scales which they will if they suspect overloading....
 
Last edited:
It's not just a matter of changing the Plate, it also involves removing certain parts of the trailer!
 
Donkeymad said:
It's not just a matter of changing the Plate, it also involves removing certain parts of the trailer!
Click to expand...

I'm not sure where you have got this info from?! :confused: As I said, I had mine done by Ifor Williams, all that was changed was the plate as long as the MAM is still within the range stamped on the hitch. Why on earth would they remove parts?! :confused:
 
I had this done with my IW505. I had it downrated to 1800kg so I could tow it with my large Mercedes diesel S Class 320CDI (don't anyone dare tell me thats not capeable of towing) which could tow 1950kg legally. It was very easy to get done, I took it along to my IW dealer and they simply put a plate on it stating the weight limit it could easily tow. Cost about £18.00 I think. I sold it recently to get a horse box and stated this in the ad and that I would get it uprated again for anyone interested. However the buyer stated it would be useful for them too and they were happy to keep it downrated. I towed mainly long distances and didn't like taking more than one horse anyway.
 
Mike007 said:
The whole concept of downrating a manufacturers reccomended weight is a nonsense. It has absolutely no meaning.
Click to expand...


It is not nonsense: regretably it is quite an important legal issue.

As you state: You can not tow a trailer with a mass greater than your vehicle/licence permits. And, as you state, the manufacturer has worked out what is the biggest safe mass safe and stamped it on the side.

It is bloody frustrating that if you want to use the trailer to tow a smaller mass that goes upto the mass permitted by your car licence, you can't simply load the trailer upto the value. Even if you are under that mass, if the trailer has a number on the side that is greater you are technically breaking the law.

So, for example, the trialer is stamped with 2000 kg MAM, but because you are limited by your car/licence to towing 1500kg, you cannot simply have a loaded trailer that actually weighs no more than 1500kg: It is the MAM on the side that the police officer will go off.

Therefore, in response to the OP, Bateson and Ifor will both allow you to swap your existing plates for a new plate with a downrated mass (for a small fee) so you can be legal.

However, the MAM does have a minimum since many components have a design minimum as well as a maximum.
 
CP 1980, to put it bluntly. You are completely wrong. No ifs ,No buts, wrong. It is a manufacturers plate not a ministry plate .Two very different things.
 
Mike007 said:
CP 1980, to put it bluntly. You are completely wrong. No ifs ,No buts, wrong. It is a manufacturers plate not a ministry plate .Two very different things.
Click to expand...

I have not state anywhere that I disagree with the simple distinction:

A ministry plate is for LGVs and a manufacturer's plate is for trailers.

However, under law, the trailer's MAM is designated by the manufacturer. This is stamped on that manufacturer's plate.

As the MAM of a trailer is what is refered to in licence and towing laws, it is this what matters to a taffic police officer.

The manufacturer can change the MAM issued, by simply changing the physical plate for you.

If you still think I am wrong, please follow the following links:

http://www.iwt.co.uk/customer-care/faq-categories/1358/1763

http://www.batesontrailers.com/trailer-towing-guide.asp

(for Bateson Trailers, read section on Driver's Licences, third paragraph)

Now please reconsider your point of view on what I am saying (perhaps it is simply a misunderstanding).
 
cp1980 said:
I have not state anywhere that I disagree with the simple distinction:

A ministry plate is for LGVs and a manufacturer's plate is for trailers.

However, under law, the trailer's MAM is designated by the manufacturer. This is stamped on that manufacturer's plate.

As the MAM of a trailer is what is refered to in licence and towing laws, it is this what matters to a taffic police officer.

The manufacturer can change the MAM issued, by simply changing the physical plate for you.

If you still think I am wrong, please follow the following links:

http://www.iwt.co.uk/customer-care/faq-categories/1358/1763

http://www.batesontrailers.com/trailer-towing-guide.asp

(for Bateson Trailers, read section on Driver's Licences, third paragraph)

Now please reconsider your point of view on what I am saying (perhaps it is simply a misunderstanding).
Click to expand...
Sorry you are still wrong.

" the trailer's MAM is designated by the manufacturer. This is stamped on that manufacturer's plate." Actualy this plate gives the design weight not the MAM.Thus I could have a foreign Artic trailer.with a design weight greatly in excess of its UK MAM.I would not have to change that plate. "A ministry plate is for LGVs and a manufacturer's plate is for trailers"Wrong Ministry plates are for vehicles and trailers above a certain weight,but ALL vehicles and trailers have a manufacturers plate.
"As the MAM of a trailer is what is refered to in licence and towing laws, it is this what matters to a traffic police officer.". Police are interested in whether the vehicle trailer combination is actualy overloaded. They have no interest in design weights unless they are exceeded.
"If you still think I am wrong, please follow the following links"I would suggest you go and get a copy of the relevant HMSO publications rather than relying on these links.I suggest you start with the construction and use regulations.The law is given in these regulations not what some trailer manufacturer says.
 
cp1980 said:
It is not nonsense: regretably it is quite an important legal issue.

As you state: You can not tow a trailer with a mass greater than your vehicle/licence permits. And, as you state, the manufacturer has worked out what is the biggest safe mass safe and stamped it on the side.

It is bloody frustrating that if you want to use the trailer to tow a smaller mass that goes upto the mass permitted by your car licence, you can't simply load the trailer upto the value. Even if you are under that mass, if the trailer has a number on the side that is greater you are technically breaking the law.

So, for example, the trialer is stamped with 2000 kg MAM, but because you are limited by your car/licence to towing 1500kg, you cannot simply have a loaded trailer that actually weighs no more than 1500kg: It is the MAM on the side that the police officer will go off.

Therefore, in response to the OP, Bateson and Ifor will both allow you to swap your existing plates for a new plate with a downrated mass (for a small fee) so you can be legal.

However, the MAM does have a minimum since many components have a design minimum as well as a maximum.
Click to expand...
I was so p!ssed off with this rubbish about down plating
I rang ifors well they coudent quote the law or where this cr&p came from they said it was something people were asking for so they do it!!!!! anyway here is a link
www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/requirementsfortrailers
 
I have been in"that bun fight " for the last 35 years ,including presenting cases all the way up to the "Master of the rolls". Seriously ,you have to ignore all those links and "ADVICE" from trailer manufacturers,. Even VOSA web sites must be treated with caution.None of these should ever be mistaken for a statement of law.They are not!Trust me on this .I would seriously thrash any prosecution based on a manufacturers design plate ,where all physical weights were complied with. But it aint going to happen,because Vosa operatives,and most traffic officers also understand the regulations.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top