Getting an outline?

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jennirosie

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I'm going to a dressage competition soon (intro B) and although my mare is forward going, responsive and has quite nice paces, she can't seem to understand what to do with her head and neck. She's currently ridden with a bungee for 10/15 mins a few times a week. Although she goes in lovely outline when we use the bungee, as soon as it is taken off, her head is straight up in the air. We've tried a different bit (hanging cheek), copper lozenges, the sponging method etc and nothing seems to work. I'm going to try a Jeffries harmony bit to see if she settles with that but is there anything I can do to ask her to go into an outline? I'm a bit new with all of the dressage things so sorry if it's a silly question!
Thanks!
(Back, teeth etc are all fine)
 
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Best thing is to stop using the bungee and get the best instructor you can :)

The most basic way I can describe is it, is to imagine riding their back end into a still soft contact.

Different people use slightly different methods to achieve this, however without seeing you ride nobody can really give you specifics.

I would concentrate on riding forwards and straight for your intro and keeping a good rhythm :)
 
Throw away the bungee and stop worrying about the front end. Ride with your seat and legs into soft, still hands and allow her to develop the muscles that she needs to be able to come into 'an outline'. In an Intro test, she will not really be expected to be in an outline but if you do plenty of hillwork and make good use of transitions to get her back end working correctly, she will, in time, develop the muscles that she needs.
 
You definitely need to get an instructor if you are new to this. It'll be a lot easier for both of you! The way to achieve an 'outline' is to push the horse into contact. Inside leg, outside rein is my preference with seat as appropriate. You want the horse to power from behind, lift its back, round and therefore end up with its head on the vertical because you are resisting gently... You release as soon as the horse relaxes into it and maintain a light contact and don't nag. As soon as you feel the horse hollow and the head lift, you push again and gently squeeze the outside rein. Then release as soon as the horse carries itself again. Lots of loose rein work to get the horse relaxed and responsive and lots of turning and transitions (within and between gaits) are very helpful to warm up before you take up contact as well as after. If you try to work on the front end without the back end, you'll get a horrible hollow shape and you may think you've achieved your 'outline' but you won't do well in competition (or so I would hope). It's not about where the head is - it's about the rest of the body and, as a result, the head goes where you want it all on its own.
 
Agree with all of the above but one other thing is teach your horse to accept a soft contact with a relaxed jaw. If you have been using a bungee she hasn't been used to getting a release, so you need to allow her to learn that what you want (and what gets a slight release) is softness. You can teach it from the saddle (at halt, ask her to flex to one side or the other and release the instant she softens) or in hand, asking for relaxation and releasing when you get it. Small amounts to begin with.
 
Stop worrying about the head! Any judge worth their salt will be looking at so much more than just where the nose is.
There are too many people in the horse world at the moment who are obsessed with "being on the bit" and riding round on shuffly, hollow horses with their heads plastered close to their chest. This is not right!!!
Get an instructor, ditch the gadgets and worry about getting the engine working, then think about the bend and suppleness. It is not a quick and easy process if your horse is already established in its 'way of going' - I have just spent 3 years undoing my old instructors attitude of "shove it in draw reins" but regular lessons, patience and dedication will pay dividends.
 
I've found even if you get the correct working from behind you still need the correct contact, and most important is that horse gives in his jaw!

Have a look at you tube Randi Thompson. She has tons of videos. Unfortunately they aren't in any order and a lot of the say 'back to basic' and are actually on an advanced horse . BUT search through for contact and softening the jaw. Well worth the time to find them
 
I echo what has been said above, I spend quite a bit of time writing for judges, as well as riding these low level tests ( i have a young horses that is taking his time to mature) and the simple truth is that is at this level, a freely forward test with a nice rhythm is more desired then a test produced by a horse where a force "outline" has been created. You can see straight away where people have attempted to bring down a horses head, the horse does not move forward and appears blocked through the shoulder, not nice to watch really.
 
Find yourself a really good trainer who will ride your mare and give you an assessment of the amount of training she's had. If she works nicely from behind into a contact with your trainer then at least you know she's capable of doing it and the trainer will be able to help you do the same. If she doesn't it probably means that she's gone around with her head up in the air, hollow backed and on her forehand for most of her ridden career and you'll have to start from basics slowly building up the correct muscles which also means letting down the muscles that she's built up incorrectly ie under the neck. some years ago we bought a lovely little connie for my daughter but she had she had developed the muscle under her neck and lacked topline (I am putting on a suit of armour, at this point) We did a lot of reschooling but she did use a bungee (properly fitted so that it gave the pony a release when she lowered her head) very successfully for a little while. I'm not the most experienced or confident rider and TBH sometimes I read the posts on here and they make it all sound so easy. Do this and this will happen, do that and that will happen. I can only think the horses and ponies we've had over the years must be from a different planet because I've found they have all been very different and several have required " a bit of a knack" to get them working nicely, others would use the word "feel". Good luck with your mare and have lots of fun with her and I hope you are able to find a really good trainer to help you!
 
abbijay said:
Stop worrying about the head! Any judge worth their salt will be looking at so much more than just where the nose is.
There are too many people in the horse world at the moment who are obsessed with "being on the bit" and riding round on shuffly, hollow horses with their heads plastered close to their chest. This is not right!!!
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This.
 
jennirosie said:
Thanks everyone! I'm going to get an instructor out soon and see if we can sort it :) x
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You've said you're new to dressage, so this is a great aim but you should also manage your expectations - a true outline (working properly over the back into an even, elastic contact) is not something that will be quickly 'sorted out'. It's a work in progress. Have a look at the scales of training, this will give you an idea of what dressage is all about.

At intro, the judge isn't looking for an outline. They'll want to see relaxation, balance, and rhythm.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Throw away the bungee and stop worrying about the front end. Ride with your seat and legs into soft, still hands and allow her to develop the muscles that she needs to be able to come into 'an outline'. In an Intro test, she will not really be expected to be in an outline but if you do plenty of hillwork and make good use of transitions to get her back end working correctly, she will, in time, develop the muscles that she needs.
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This!!! And try not to use the 2 handed sponge method if you can... I have always found that this teaches them to get their head in but not use their back end.... it took ages with my Gelderlander to get it but with consistent work we got there!

Good Luck in your test!
 
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