Getting help? Why? Why not?

[TarrSteps]

Lots of great input and discussion, folks, thanks! Food for thought, from both a personal and professional perspective.

Although, judging by my calendar,.what's been stopping lots of people is the lousy weather we've had!

 

[AshTay]

Great thread.
I'm someone who has just made the decision to send one of my horses away for schooling. My reasons for not doing it before was because I couldn't put my finger on the problem, if indeed there was a problem at all, and that the issues were as much down to me as to him and so if I knew what they were I should have been able to fix them. Issues with my other mare, a minor health concern and ongoing confidence issues have led me to the decision that I need some intensive outside assistance.
I think that when I thought about doing this before I felt I'd be "giving up" and I also had concerns about whether the horse in question was mentally (and physically?) suited to it. But now I feel that I've done what I can to help him mentally (he is a bolder horse than he was even a year ago) and physically there is nothing that is of concern.
I've always had help from an instructor with this horse and others and will continue to do so but the "sending away" option always felt like a huge step further than a weekly lesson at home.
In my current mindset, sending him away feels more like "assistance" rather than "rescue". There's also the consideration that I don't have lights where I am so can't do much at this time of year anyway, sending him away now will hopefully mean that when he comes back, the evenings will be getting light and I'll be able to pick up and carry on with him.
I'm quite excited
(quietly excited I should add - daren't jinx anything...).

 

[seabsicuit2]

I have several reasons-

One is that I haven't trusted the people locally/ easily available. Either they go on for far too long and / or try and push the horse way beyond what it's ready for. But now I've moved areas , I have much more of a wealth of great people easily available to use.

Secondly, with jump trainers, I can't bear any trainer that cannot explain why you missed so badly at a fence, and tell you just to crack on with no good reasons or explanations as to how to do it better. There are many jump trainers like that.

And last of all, not being able to hear well in lessons has put any proper training to a complete halt for years. I did have a radio which solved the problem,but it broke. Trying to save up for a new one, but other bills seem to always take priority. I still should go on and get lessons, but I find that many teachers are completely thrown by the fact that they can't call out when I'm riding, and have to pull me in, which often renders them completely silent ! TBH you just can't do it like that anyway, which is why I've kind of given up on it until I can get that radio!

 

[chestnut cob]

I can't speak for anyone else or generalise so based on my own experiences... I'd like to think I've always asked for help when I needed it. I was probably pretty pig headed when I was younger, thinking I wouldn't need help, but surely that's true of most people? Also maybe due to ignorance then, as in not really knowing there was a problem in the first place.

If I think about my most recent experiences I can look at my last horse and current one. The last horse was an older horse (teens when I got him and now retired) with a variety of arthritic conditions. Before him I'd never had experience of a horse ever going lame (honestly) so when his schooling began, slowly, to deteriorate, I trusted my instructor at the time because it didn't really occur to me to question her. I thought I was getting help but unfortunately she was the wrong sort of help and it wasn't until my farrier called me to say the horse wasn't right behind when he had been to shoe him. Had the vet out then, did lots of diagnostics, had lots of physio and got to grips with how to manage/ride the horse. So in that case t I didn't really understand what might be wrong and was looking to the wrong place for answers. I think it's difficult to know where to go for help and there aren't that many good horsepeople around! Years down the line and I've since realised that particular person couldn't spot a lame horse if its leg was hanging off. But it's hard when you think you can trust someone.

I can go for a long time without lessons because I have struggled to find someone I gel with and with who I can achieve what I want to. I've gone through the instructors like above who will tell you the horse is just plain naughty. Then I've had the ones who'll tell you everything is amazing, the horse is going to go Elem (it only had one good leg and detested flatwork at the best of times so clearly wasn't...) when it struggled around a Prelim test and much preferred hunting. The thing I find often is that "trainers" can talk the talk but they either won't get on your horse when you ask, or when you do they can't achieve the things they've been telling you to do, or the horse invariably goes badly for them. I want my horse to go better for my trainer/instructor than it does for me. I used to go to someone who was full of the talk, the horse did improve with me riding/schooling him and then when I asked said person to get on, the horse looked like it had never been schooled and they couldn't ride one side of it. So I want someone who has done more than read about schooling techniques in a book, or has experience of schooling something other than textbook rides. If I go to a SJ trainer then I expect that person to be able to get on and jump my horse well if I ask. Same with a DR trainer. If I am struggling with something then I'd expect that person to get on and be able to show me. I do not expect to come away from a lesson learning only that I ride my horse better than the person I am paying £40-50 per hour!

Sometimes the answer is, "Yes, it's happening because of this so do this to solve it." Sometimes it is, "No, not fixable but manageable." Sometimes it is, "Don't bother, live with it," or even "Don't bother, be done." What's wrong with that? Surely you want someone helping you who is going to be honest? I think of that as exactly the reason to get help - if the horse is not doing what I want and I can't figure out why or how to sort it, I want someone who knows more about it to tell me if I'm wasting my time (and, possibly, mine and my horse's health and sanity)

I think this point is important. The second instructor/trainer I mentioned above would never be honest with me about the horse's abilities or what he was physically capable of. I knew and when I said I had decided to only hack and hunt him for the rest of his working life, I was given a guilt trip. Had to walk away from the "help" because I knew my horse would be far happier going in straight lines and hunting. And I was right. The horse's physical issues were manageable but he was still never going to enjoy schooling and lessons. I learnt that the person I *should* have listened to was my physio who'd been telling me to just hunt him for ages!

 

[TarrSteps]

Really interesting insights, thanks guys! I'm genuinely surprised by the number of people who feel that getting help with a horse is, or will be perceived as, a sign of failure and will open the regular rider to ridicule, perhaps even by the instructor! If that last one happens, that's just really bad teaching!!

I was brought up to think of getting help with a horse as in the same class as taking your vehicle in for service or going to the doctor. You find the problem, you fix the problem (or learn how to manage it, or, possibly, learn it's not fixable) and then move on to the next phase. I actually really love being taught by good people and miss that I don't have the chances and access now that I have had at other times in my life.

As far as not getting results . . .it's a business. If you're not happy, discuss it and/or vote with your feet after giving it a fair shot.

 

[TarrSteps]

Oh, another interesting thing about this thread is how many people have commented on it to me in real life, including people who are not even members of the forum! A reminder that there are people out there, reading. . .

 

[viola]

Oh, another interesting thing about this thread is how many people have commented on it to me in real life, including people who are not even members of the forum! A reminder that there are people out there, reading. . .

It's true It's a very interesting subject and although I agree the snow and damn cold stops play a little, the real reasons are much more complicated It's been a great read and I've just discussed it with two friends who are not forum members either: one lives in Sweden and one in Poland.
Interesting thoughts travel well

 

[Festive_Felicitations]

I find it strange that people apear not to have access to good trainers/teachers (we don't here either, BTW, but this is deepest, darkest Ireland). When I lived in America/France/Spain it was simple to attach oneself to the local professional and have ongoing help and support. Is there something wrong with the BHS system, in that it doesn't produce reliable instruction/training? Is a bog standard riding school not capable of delivering true professional work?

I've always thought that it would be much easier to find a decent instructor in the UK!

tbh I think there is a really bad lack of knowledgeable instructors/proper horsemen out there in the UK for people to go to, and so they end up going to some half baked wally who walks the walk but hasn't got a scrap of sensible knowledge/experience behind them, then they get terrible advice, which doesn't work, then their faith in reaching out for help is lost.

I think there are a lot of people all around the world who talk the talk but can't walk the walk.
But as an outsider, looking at the number of people who ride, how much riding is ingrained in British culture and the sheer density of top class riders and competitions (possibly more Eventing) I would have thought it would be easier to find a good instructor in the UK than it is say here. Though I'm sure it vaires by region.

For example, here riding is part of the culture but it is very much 'bush' riding so hop on anything and go for a bash through the bush either for fun or after stock and while there are some very good riders doing this with a seat and position to die for, its developed out of nessecity and they'd be very hard pushed to share their skill with anyone.

The, for want of a better term, 'english' school of though re-riding is comparitvley much smaller, though it is growing.

I think people in the UK are extremely lucky in the wealth of trainers easily available. Most top trainers hold regular clinics, all you have to do is sign up, and they are happy to help all kinds of riders and horses. More locally there are many decent instructors to be had and I've never had a problem finding someone decent willing to come to me, despite moving up and down the country frequently.

Compare the situation with France, at least here in the south. Within a 2 hour drive there is only one dressage instructor. Luckily she's lovely but if you didn't get on with her that would be it. In the two years I have been here there has been one visiting instructor clinic with very few places.

I've always had the same impression as BooBoos re the UK & instructors. The frequency with which clinics etc happen in the UK seems far higher based soley on HHO posts! And then you have all the 'Master Classes' that venues host, there is nothing like that here, except the once a year 'Equitana' which is a bit like HOYS.

Another handicap here is distance I know of 4 instructors I'd love to have lessons with regularly but the closest is 2hrs away. As they are riders themsleves and compete most weekends finding the time to make the trip when they are avaible is hard even if I could afford it! A 2hr return trip plus lesson would cost me nearly $300, there is no way I can afford to do that regularly! Even once a month would mean I could do nothing else in terms of outings.

I feel like this at the minute, Im in NZ and would not pay for below average or just technically wrong instruction at all!! I had some lessons with an eventer but even then that was mainly for some mindset help with a youngster as opposed to a training plan, Even then shes gone back to the UK Everyone is in the UK training and competing !The people I see who ride well at shows are incredibly overpriced for the instruction I have seen them receive. Dont get me started on registered and trained other professionals!

Sounds similar to here! But I suspect even less choice!

My experience - my getting 'help' (not vetinary) has always been limited by finances and transport (a lack of both). Even though we were in a horsey area very few instructors would travel expecting you to go to them. As a result I went mainly to clinics when I could get a lift which were varying sucesses but over all left a poor taste in my mouth.
E.g. one way of teaching and if it didnt work for you & your horse - tough
and instructor spent the first 15min gossiping to the riders she new in the group ignoring everyone else and then all through the lesson even though I was the least experienced combo sent us out 'to show how is was done'. Which either showed incredible faith in our limited skill, or as I very strongly suspect didn't remember a thing I had told her about us at the beginning.

After this stopped going to clincs started to looked for an instructor. Watched a few teach and had a few lessons and each time was left feeling it had been a total waste of money and generally became very very disilluioned with the level of instructors here and they way of teaching. A similar feeling to what I suspect Lucemoose is going through.

Then a few yrs ago I finally could afford a trailer, moved Beau and suddenly had access to a whole new range of instructors and WOW What a revelation!
I found a jumping instructor who worked on Beau and I at the same time, and I could feel the improvement through each lesson and we both gained confidence ( I unfortunately then moved 500km away from him with work ) but that confidence/skills he taught us have lasted. I've had a few DR lessons with visiting instructors that I enjoyed and felt were benefical and keep an eye out for them coming back to the area to have more.
Though I have moved - again! I do now know where to look for good instructors and who to ask to find themand can travel to them. A skill I was seriously lacking in the first 7yrs of owning B.

Another issues has been learning to manage B physically. He ties-up and has always been prone to mucsle strains/soreness etc. The vets we spoke to were never very helpful and I've picked up more on how to manage him off here and online! But the big break though was a massive fluke. A friend had a physio/body work person coming to the yard, I though it wouldn't hurt to ask them to look at B.
From just watching him walk across the yard and back she described what he would be like to ride down to a tee. After 1 session the change in him as he walked away was remarkable - visibly looser and just better (sorry for the poor description its late on a Sunday ).
She also told us a lot about why she though he was the way he was and how to manage him. With some googling backing up what she said & we felt we went with her and God I wish I'd had this knowledge 8yrs ago! He is much better in general and we now have a managment options to help him.
But after past experience with vets & physios I would not have known this help was availble or even possible! So would never have gone looking for it even though we guessed there had to be a better way as the current way wasnt working that well.
Sure we still have issues but they are more related to hooning round his field than a inablity to cope with a basic workload.
Sadly she has done her shoulder in and after reconstructive surgery is not longer practicing as much but for the yr we had access to her, she helped a lot and again has left us with tools to continue to help him.


Erm in summary to why /why not? Limit of finances and transport and then where to go for help and finding 'help' worth going to.

Lots of great input and discussion, folks, thanks! Food for thought, from both a personal and professional perspective.

Although, judging by my calendar,.what's been stopping lots of people is the lousy weather we've had!

Totally off topic - its raining here atm! First proper rain in a month!