Getting my pony to work in an outline??

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bex1984

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I have been trying, and not really succeeding, for quite a while to get Murphy to work in an outline.

He is just about getting the hang of it in walk, but it is very inconsistent, and I can't do it at all in trot.

I do loads of transitions, circles etc before even beginning to think about trying to get an outline. In walk he will eventually start to come into it himself if that makes sense...but as soon as he trots his head is in the air. I'm sure I must be doing something wrong
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Any tips? I know it has to come from behind, and I can get his back end motoring along but he still goes around with his head in the air?

Am I making any sense?
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I know I need lessons but I am utterly, totally skint at the moment
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have you had his teeth and back and saddle checked, first. often there are physical reasons why the horse won't work in a round outline - his hollowness, unsteady head carriage etc might well be a symptom.
if they're definitely all fine... pm me, and i'll copy and paste the stuff i've been pm'ing to another HHOer, if you like. her very hollow and evasive horse seems to be getting the hang of it now.
 
Definately check the teeth, back and saddle. If you cant afford to have lessons, is there a nice friend who would watch you for 30mins to see if there is anything obvious they can point out?
 
teeth checked two weeks ago, and back was last checked in december but he was exactly the same before and after that if that makes sense...I hope to get it checked again soon, but am just too poor this month *sob*. He has an enormous tanking-off muscle under his neck, and he tends to brace that when he goes faster..if that makes sense?!
 
i don't like many gadgets but i do like a market harbour i use it on my pacer to help get him down on the bit and i'v used it on a few others which are a bit stubborn
 
Agree with what everyone else says re. back, teeth etc, but if they are ok and you can't afford lessons, just be persistant! You must be doing something right if he is getting the hang of it in walk, so just keep doing what you have been doing. I had the same problem with Star at the end of last year, and with a few lessons and a lot of patience he'll go in an outline now.
 
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Also remember - his build will make it pretty difficult for him.....

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That's sort of what I'm thinking AmyMay - but surely it is possible? It just takes more work?

It's almost like he is so in the habit of using the big muscle under his neck that he just automatically reverts to that
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i don't like many gadgets but i do like a market harbour i use it on my pacer to help get him down on the bit and i'v used it on a few others which are a bit stubborn

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I'm not sure he's stubborn (well, he is...but maybe not about this
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) - more that he just doesn't understand maybe...
 
I think it is going to take a lot of patience
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and half the problem is I feel guilty asking him, in case I'm doing it wrong and ruining him
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gah I need to marry a millionnaire so I can have LOTS of lessons
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I found that when I was trying to get mine into an outline, no matter how many transitions, circles, serpantines etc i did, it made no difference to him whatsoever
 
When I ride horses that don't like to go into an outline, I find that if I ride with my hands wide apart and low, and keep them on a consistent contact (As opposed to playing with the reins) this encourages them to stretch down.

If I do that with my hands and then do a lot of circle work, the horse usually starts to use its back legs more.

If you can get your pony stretching lots like that, then he'll start to build up muscle in the right places and it will make it easier for him to eventually come into a good outline.

Persistence is the key. Good luck!
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I find with pickle if you let him trot with almost no contact for a few laps of the school, so he stretches his neck down almost to the floor. He can then work ten times better!
 
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That's sort of what I'm thinking AmyMay - but surely it is possible? It just takes more work?

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Not really. He has a short neck and is thick through the jowel. This will make it very difficult if neigh on impossible for him to work in the shape you are wanting.
 
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I found that when I was trying to get mine into an outline, no matter how many transitions, circles, serpantines etc i did, it made no difference to him whatsoever

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did you find something that did make a difference? I do loads of transitions and spiralling in and out of circles and that does seem to help (in walk anyway!!)
 
This may sound daft but is he kept in or out? All i can say is that first of all try to get rid of some muscle from under his neck i know just what you mean as i had one like this. I took the problem right back to making sure he wasnt reaching up to anything in his stable ie haynets and was reaching down to everything to stretch the top line muscles. at the moment i wouldnt try to much for an 'outline' as such but when you ride encourage him to work long and low with his head stay in walk at the mo try a gadget to back up what you ask i like the elastic bungees they are very good and being elastic don't force them but ask them. try it over his poll, through his bit at each side and down through his front legs to your girth to ask him to stretch over his back. Try this on the lunge first if you think he won't like it too much, as he mustgo forwards. The other thing is always make sure he is stepping through from behind and not backing off but remember it is all very physically demanding so don't let his neck ache by over doing it. Good look
 
HI, his build will make it difficult and also his current muscular development (big underside of neck etc..), his back end and loins are probably quite weak too despite his size.

Persistence is the key here.
Do you have access to a video camera? You could always ride have someone tape it and put on Youtube for review.
 
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That's sort of what I'm thinking AmyMay - but surely it is possible? It just takes more work?

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Not really. He has a short neck and is thick through the jowel. This will make it very difficult if neigh on impossible for him to work in the shape you are wanting.

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ah well, if not possible we will just stick to charging round like loonies
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ah well, if not possible we will just stick to charging round like loonies
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Its more fun than schooling anyway
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That's sort of what I'm thinking AmyMay - but surely it is possible? It just takes more work?

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Not really. He has a short neck and is thick through the jowel. This will make it very difficult if neigh on impossible for him to work in the shape you are wanting.

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ah well, if not possible we will just stick to charging round like loonies
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From what I can see in your sig anyway, his natural head position doesn't look too bad...but obviously that's up to you to decide!
He'll probably never have a "proper" outline, but I see no reason why he can't improve on how he is now.
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I just had a thought, if you don't already do them, carrot stretches, feeding him from the floor and hill work would all help him build up muscle in the right places too.
 
ticktockted - he is out 24/7 for the summer now. I tried to keep his haynets low when he was stabled at night in winter, but his stable door is a bit high which doesn't really help...
I guess I am quite reluctant to use gadgets on him really - because I'm a novice rider and it doesn't seem right for me to use them in a way (also, I can't lunge the little monster
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Rayado05 - hmmm I may be able to source a video camera but not sure I want everyone to see how bad my riding actually is!!
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ah well, if not possible we will just stick to charging round like loonies
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Its more fun than schooling anyway
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I suppose I just want Murphy to be a super-wonder-pony who can do everything in the world - in my mind he could do anything if we put our minds to it! He'll always be super-wonderful to me tho - even if he never "gets" working in an outline
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I see where your comming from if your a novice gadgets can seem scary or harsh, i just find the kinder ones help me to back up what i am trying to ask the horse. I do think it will be possible just keep doing what your doing if it is working in walk maby the penny will drop in trot for him! if not you sound like you enjoy him anyway!
 
horsey1992devon - thanks, I did do carrot stretches with him but I seem to have stopped doing them
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I will try to remember to do them again!! Unfortunately we don't have many hills in the east midlands, but we do have banks we can bounce up (apparently we can't walk calmly up them, we must prick ears and bounce up them at high speed
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I'd really like to reduce the size of that muscle under his neck, because he does use it against me sometimes...
 
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I see where your comming from if your a novice gadgets can seem scary or harsh, i just find the kinder ones help me to back up what i am trying to ask the horse. I do think it will be possible just keep doing what your doing if it is working in walk maby the penny will drop in trot for him! if not you sound like you enjoy him anyway!

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I just worry that it's ME doing something wrong and that's why he won't do it, so it doesn't seem like a good idea for me to use gadgets.

Maybe the penny will drop and I just need to be patient and persistant
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Well even if he does go around with his head stuck in the air, he'll still be super duper gorgeous
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aw thank you...I might show him your pics of Star looking all lovely (and jumping mahoosive jumps) and see if he gets the idea
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Well even if he does go around with his head stuck in the air, he'll still be super duper gorgeous
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aw thank you...I might show him your pics of Star looking all lovely (and jumping mahoosive jumps) and see if he gets the idea
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Ok, can you please get some pics of Murphy standing still and being a good boy so I can show Star?
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Well even if he does go around with his head stuck in the air, he'll still be super duper gorgeous
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aw thank you...I might show him your pics of Star looking all lovely (and jumping mahoosive jumps) and see if he gets the idea
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Ok, can you please get some pics of Murphy standing still and being a good boy so I can show Star?
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It's a shame we can't breed them and get the best of both (yes, I know they are both boys!!)
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