Getting Off When Horses Misbehave

Each to their own!
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I've owned too many mares to still think you can win arguments with pure bloody-mindedness. You have to win with your brain and it completely depends on the horse and the situation.
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DITTO!!!!
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I'm of the general opinion you stay on where ever possible but as with all situations there are exceptions and first and foremost safety (both horse and rider) should come first.

Fleur is my prime example as a youngster she was the definitive b***h!! She napped for britain she reared she bucked and she did a great rodeo impression!! Physical issues were ruled out it was purely an aversion which was caused primarily by her not wanting to accept any form of contact due to being broken in far too quickly incorrectly in draw reins abroad.

Often with her the only safe way to break the napping (especially when out of the school) was to get off and lead her past her napping point. I would do so, turn round lead her back to the start, lead her past and back again before remounting and riding her past. If she walked past happily we repeated twice more to cement that she is to walk past calmly before continuing with what we were doing. She learned although I may get off she was forced to repeat the action several times more and she very rarely repeated the same action.

I obviously did something right as now have a safe sane horse, granted she still has odd/spooky moments and it took a while and I would never let a novice ride her but I feel safe in the knowledge that she isn't going to try to intentionally kill me
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I think there's no "right" or "wrong" answer here - I lost my nerve a few years back and would get off my cob at the drop of a hat.........I always carried on, (on foot) till I felt calm enough to get back on or till I found somewhere I could get on (or both!).
I didn't just go back home. I carried on with wherever I was going.
*touches wood* - it took a couple of years to stop doing it totally but I haven't got off for a while - about 18 months I think? My Cob didn't "learn" to keep doing anything - most times he wasn't actually misbehaving, I just felt scared of the situation rather than anything he was doing.
I would rather get off if I feel the need, than spend another 2 years being frightened again and perhaps never getting on again!
If you don't know how the person feels or what their horse is or isn't doing, I'm not sure how anyone can pass judgement???
 
Leading on from this, what would you do in my current situation?

Moved yards a month ago (previous yard closed) having shared a field for over 5 years between 4 horses. One has stayed, one moved elsewhere and two of us have moved together. One horse is about 27 years old, and might only go out for a short 15 minute walk; mine is a 22 year old TB. It's just the two of them in a paddock now, with another two alongside. Yard policy seems to be no more than two per paddock.

Attempted to take my boy out for a half hour walk with another livery last week and he totally lost it. His friend was yelling, which didn't help. Rearing, plunging, sideways, backwards, you name it. I'm afraid I got off - twice - and called it a day. We're straight onto a busy country road, with an A road not far away and not knowing the countryside, if anything had happened, we could both have been killed. My boy has always had a tendency to be bit nappy but nothing I couldn't handle, and only a month ago we were happily charging about a nearby Country Park meeting dogs, babies in pushchairs and cyclists, and coping with buses and lorries. This is a major dose of separation anxiety and panic, and he looks quite shocked after one of these "attacks", if he is separated from his friend for more than half a minute.

I'm sure the "experts" would say I should have persevered but the thought of a busy road on a panicking horse who hadn't a clue where he was seemed to me to be downright dangerous.

Have to say the situation is not getting any better with time!
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Ideas on how to solve this would be appreciated.
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Yes. My old boy would sometimes go to nap, easiest thing was jump off lead him 10 or 20 yards, get back on, neither of us got cross, no danger of me coming off, him slipping on the roads or having argument in traffic. He got out of the habit I think partly because it was no big deal. I think as a youngest he was schooled endlessly, never ridden out and simply had forgot about going forward on his own. I was never going to win a "strength" argument with him but got round it by thinking ahead of him.
 
Daffodil - if it any consolation, I did manage to get my horse over his seperation anxiety. It took quite a bit of will and determination but we succeeded. I took VERY small steps. Just led jerry out of the paddock to the stable and back to start with..... this caused major upset at first but after 5 or 6 times of doing it every day, he got better.
We progressed to tying jerry up to groom him while his friend was still in the paddoc 2 fields away. Again, lots of shouting to each other but everyday he got a bit better. After about 4 or 5 weeks I was able to ride jerry on his own round the block.
So horses can get over their anxiety but it could take a while!
 
AuntieDD: That's encouraging, and for the want of any other ideas, pretty much what I'm doing at the moment. It's the one step forward, two steps back that I find disheartening. If only he'd believe me that it's all perfectly safe so long as he listens to mum!
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It depends on the horse, what it's doing and why it's doing it for me. General hooning or evading during a schooling session then no, unless it's an unscheduled dismount I won't get off. Hacking off road I won't get off but hacking on the roads I pick my battles.

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Exactly this. I think sometimes people turn disagreements with their horses into confrontations and a dominance fight, when often times the reason a horse is performing X behaviour is not because he/she thinks you aren't the boss.

I feel no need to get off if I disagree with my horse when schooling, but when he was going through his phase of "No, I can't hack past that field, the cows are staring at me" (
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) and napping slowly into the middle of a country road on a blind bend, and I know for sure that if I get off he will follow me past like the cows aren't there, then hell yes I will get off! We did this with astonishing regularity when I brought him back into work and he had lost his bottle. It was his lack of confidence in the big wide world which was the problem, coupled by the fact that he felt more comfort when there was a human on the ground with him. His napping and cow fear both improved slowly, not deteriorated, so for this horse this technique worked.

Incidently, i'm not perfect nor am I fluffy bunny all the time. In the middle of a forest with no tracks let alone roads or company, I have on several occasions stayed on and gone nowhere fast with gritted teeth and a bloody minded mindset because he wouldn't go through a piddly stream or over a twig. He adopts the same bloodyminded mindset *rolls eyes* and digs his heels in. Its 50/50 who gives in and changes tact first
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i remember one teeny tiny stream crossing in particular - there was a bridge but I thought he would like to go through the 2" of water because it was a hot day. Ho, no! I could trot up to it, pony club kick, smack, growl, beg, plead, try the suprise attack... pony would go to water's edge and no further. About 30 minutes later I decided to go oveer the bridge and back down the other side to see if he would step in the water from that direction.

As soon as we were over the bridge he dragged me to the water and marched straight through, stopping only to snuffle and snorkle in the water half way through! Answers on a post card...
 
Daffodil, I'm sure there will be lots of answers to your problems, I can only speak for myself. I would get myself sorted with the horse on the ground, work on being able to "put him to work" and get his attention on me. Then I'd gradually progress to being able to lead him out in hand. Then I'd get back on. I've worked with a few horses that have separation anxiety and it's a tough one. It can take a while to work though. However, on a positive note, I've found that they can make big changes all of a sudden. So, one day you work your way through having enough attention to being able to safely take them to the yard and back, the next day it might suddenly not be an issue. And once they will go out of sight of their friend, you might find that they will just start to go however far you want. (Ridden or led!)
 
I bought my first horse from a very nervous girl who used to get off as soon as he started being naughty. His behaviour escalated very quickly from small fly bucks to quite big tantrums - basically he'd play up until she got off (which didnt take long at all)

It took me about 6 months to get him out of the habit. The first time I rode him he bucked and then actually turned round to look at me baffled by why I hadn't got off yet!!!

I think where possible I'd always ride a naughty horse through its issues - but now i'm getting older and more sensible I'd just as quickly jump off if I felt unsafe.

Saying that - I have just been riding a very nappy, dominant horse for a friend, and felt much safer on her back than on the floor where she could get me easier!!
 
i got off Millie on friday as she was napping.

we are on a farm with no roads/traffic/kids so i could have sat on her all night.

however, if anyone has ever owned a really stubborn mare they will know they would try the patience of a saint (and i am only human!).

i got off and led her for a bit, making sure she was walking out properly beside me.

jumped back on and carried on our hack.

i rode her out again on Sat and Sun and she behaved beautifully.
no napping, no naughtiness, hacked around on a long rein and went wherever i asked.


what did she learn from me getting off on Friday?

i won't give up and there is more than one way to skin a cat so she may as well comply the first time of asking!
 
I have dismounted a total of 3 times in all my years, and all in the last 12 months! First time because the horse I was riding was rearing 100% upright (I admired our pretty silhouette on the ground and then realised this was not good) - after going up 3 times I got off, it was slippy out and I just couldn't stomach the thought of her slipping over with me whilst she had her moments.

The other 2 times have been off Ted - not because I felt at all threatened, but because he had planted. Whipping does nothing, shouting, you name it, nothing, he just froze, so I got off and walked him to where we were going and then got back on and got on with it - worked perfectly well and now he has learnt to trust me, he just needed me on the ground besides him whilst he was settling in. So no, getting off when napping doesn't always create bad habits.
 
We were on the receiving end of a horse that had been conditioned that if it played up enough it would be put back in its stable to eat hay. It took hubby 12 months to get Omar to learn that chucking his teddy out of the pram in the school when he'd had enough was not acceptable and eventually he stopped doing it. His previous owner had been scared of him and he'd learnt that little habit as she got off him immediately. In her defence I wouldn't have been happy with 17.2HH of pure muscle d*cking me about either.

That said if Hovis and I were out hacking and he was geniunely terrified of something i would get off and lead him past it. Hovis trusts me more on the ground than on his back and I know this would get us past the problem and then we'd get on with it.
Horses for courses I think
 
I brought a hefty cob some years back, with the warning that he ran away from tractors. So, first I got good solid groundwork in place. Then I rode him with halter and leadrope under his bridle. When a tractor appeared, yes, he did want to spin and run away. I would get off, and "work" him back and forward until we got past the tractor, with me between him and the scarey thing. You can't do that from reins, you need the length of a decent rope. After a couple of goes he could just walk past with me leading him normally. Then the next time I just guaged how he felt under me, and as he didn't feel as if he wanted to flee, we kept going and I rode past. Just an example in case it helps.
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I wouldn't normally get off and would sit and stick it out, however I did get off once last year when my horse was being such a little sod and in front of traffic that I was fuming and if I didn't get off I was liable to kill him so I jumped off, walked back up the hill swearing at him, shoved him in his stable and walked off to chill out. I felt this was best in the circumstances. I didn't take him back out that day but I did the next and he was fine.
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I have never got off my horse due to his refusal to go past something, he spins and rears (not vertical) at things he takes offence to on the road. I don't hit him, learned that only stressed him more and don't get angry with him. I just keep turning him until he will go past. I will make him stand and give him a pat to calm his little brain, but it would never occur to me to get off.

But then I don't have any fear of my horse, I know he is just being a prat, and whether he is doing half- rears, spinning or lovely passage which is sometimes does, I know he isn't going to do anything crazy. i just make him stand and keep attempting to make him go past until he does - he always has gone past eventually.

If this is on the roads and cars are present, I will wait until I have him standing, wave them past and try again.
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I used to get off my pony to stop him jogging, but that was the only way of making him stop that, and stop making me feel sick
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I do think it depends on the situation...I know my horse well and if its a case of I dont want to go past that log or I'd really rather be at the back / go home now thanks, then I will ride him through it. But ocassionally I have got off because he is genuinely scared and has got himself into a state. If I can feel his heart thumping I know he is being genuine so rather than risk him leaping into traffic / a fence / whatever I have hopped off, lead for a bit till he's calmed down then got back on. Generally as soon as I walk confidently past whatever it is that's bothering him he starts to calm.

I have never got off because I have been frightened by his behaviour tho.
 
A friend of mine could have died recently because she stayed on. When her horse was scared she stayed on, and when her horse climbed a bank and fell over backwards she was still on. So it's not about being scared of your horse, it can be about the safest way to deal with a situation.
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Mine once napped and as we were on a steep hill I was worried she would hurt herself. I know my mare and if I push her she panics and spins so this day I got off led her up the hill and got back on at the top when we were in the next field. The next time I rode up the hill she carid on no probels, but I think if I had made an issue of it the first time I might have had more problems the next time. Now if she is really stressing, I will get off and lead as with her she is polite enough not to pull when led but sometimes just zones out when ridden and forgets you are there.

I don't think people should judge other people's decsions to stay on or get off. Its their choice, their hobby and their safety.
 
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But then I don't have any fear of my horse, I know he is just being a prat, and whether he is doing half- rears, spinning or lovely passage which is sometimes does, I know he isn't going to do anything crazy. i just make him stand and keep attempting to make him go past until he does - he always has gone past eventually.


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There are other reasons for getting off apart from being scared of your horse.

as i said in my previous post, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

if you lead the horse for a bit, it realises you will get it going forwards and where you want regardless.
they don't think 'ha, i made her get off!' they think 'oh, we're doing what she wants and going in the direction she wants anyway.'

but i'm all for the easy life; i don't mind rearing, bucking, napping etc but i'd rather nip the problem in the bud in the quickest way.
 
Thank you, Woeisme, I'm hoping that by increasing the time they are apart, if only by half a minute at a time, we can make some progress. I might get to the end of the drive by the autumn!!

I'm also investigating whether someone like Kelly Marks could help.
 
Have recently had a horse which had been taught (or had learned) that if he messed around, he got dismounted. So when other riders didn't want to dismount he would progress his behaviour until he became dangerous and got the desired result. And since he was handy with his forelegs, you were safer in the saddle, even when the rears got vertical - he would keep rearing until you let him go or he got tired. Complete nutter - not at all scared (none of the obvious signs of it, such as high heart rate, snorting, sweating, ears pricked, eyes bulging, etc), just had got used to being in charge of the rider. Not in pain either.

New horse this week baulked at having to pass scary bins and scary man standing by. Reason being he was fresh after not being ridden for 3 weeks and didn't fully trust me to be his leader. Didn't want to go and stopped and tried to turn round several times. Instead of dismounting I turned his head the other way, flexed him and applied gentle pressure, then let him regroup. After 3 such baulks we were past it, and past all the other spooky objects on the hack afterwards too. Now if I had got off, not only would it have been needless, it may have encouraged him to learn that the response to napping was for the rider to dismount.

tbh I can't be bothered constantly hopping on and off horses. I like to ride them. I'm not talking about dangerous situations involving vertical rears and dangerous traffic. I'm talking about novice owners who get horses that are too much for them and are scared of falling off, so dismount at every little excuse. I'm sure we've also seen horses that have supposedly had months spent doing groundwork on that are still completely nappy to ride out. Dismounting at the slightest thing will create problems that weren't really there in the first place in some horses.
 
Daffodil, I have gradually rehabbed a very traumatised horse over the last couple of years. He was a complete nutcase when taken anywhere new (ie a new field!) even with company walking with him. I used the help of Tim Couzens, a holistic vet. First visit was pricey, but once he has the horse on his list he will help over the phone if he can. I can't tell you how much difference a bottle of Tim's "Dried Frog Pills" have made at different times in this poor little gelding's life.
I am also pretty strong on my groundwork I think, and have various techniques I can use to get my horse with me, rather than away with the fairies. So any help you can get like that from a good trainer will probably be good as well. If you tell us where you are maybe someone can recommend a good trainer.
Good luck.
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Have recently had a horse which had been taught (or had learned) that if he messed around, he got dismounted. So when other riders didn't want to dismount he would progress his behaviour until he became dangerous and got the desired result. And since he was handy with his forelegs, you were safer in the saddle, even when the rears got vertical - he would keep rearing until you let him go or he got tired. Complete nutter - not at all scared (none of the obvious signs of it, such as high heart rate, snorting, sweating, ears pricked, eyes bulging, etc), just had got used to being in charge of the rider. Not in pain either.

New horse this week baulked at having to pass scary bins and scary man standing by. Reason being he was fresh after not being ridden for 3 weeks and didn't fully trust me to be his leader. Didn't want to go and stopped and tried to turn round several times. Instead of dismounting I turned his head the other way, flexed him and applied gentle pressure, then let him regroup. After 3 such baulks we were past it, and past all the other spooky objects on the hack afterwards too. Now if I had got off, not only would it have been needless, it may have encouraged him to learn that the response to napping was for the rider to dismount.

tbh I can't be bothered constantly hopping on and off horses. I like to ride them. I'm not talking about dangerous situations involving vertical rears and dangerous traffic. I'm talking about novice owners who get horses that are too much for them and are scared of falling off, so dismount at every little excuse. I'm sure we've also seen horses that have supposedly had months spent doing groundwork on that are still completely nappy to ride out. Dismounting at the slightest thing will create problems that weren't really there in the first place in some horses.

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but 3 baulks is hardly what i call napping- thats a spook in my world!
Millie wasn't doing vertical rears and there was no traffic around but i still got off as staying on wasn't improving the situation- 30 minutes later we still hadn't moved.

i got off, led her fowards 15 yards and got back on.

the next 2 rides i had she was golden, beautifully behaved.

you say getting off may have made your horse think napping made you get off.
however i work by the theory that i chose to get off and the horse understands that.
the horse also understands that whatever they decide to do, i will get my way (we will leave the yard/ go by the scary bins/ whatever).
i'm pretty sure Millie was so good Sat/Sun because she realised from Friday's episode that i was going to get her down the drive regardless.

sometimes staying on creates as many issues as it solves.

the horse was napping, you've stayed on to argue the toss.
the horse starts doing little bunny hops, reversing, you stay on to win the battle.
the horse starts rearing, you stay on to show you aren't scared.

particularly with a sensitive, opinionated mare like Millie, i would rather nip the problem in the bud in the quickest and most stressfree way.

i don't think you can throw a blanket over all people who get off/ stay on and say they are right or wrong.
plenty of horses i have had in to re-school i wouldn't get off, but there are some that i would and will get off.

though for me, its less about winning the battle and more about getting the horse to do what i want in the easiest way for both of us.
 
The point is though that it could so easily develop into napping with a slightly nervous rider who would get off to lead in a similar situation. And it did include bunny hops and mini-spins. Just a small problem with a new horse testing. My point is also that some people get off too easily, it should be a last or emergency resort.
 
the point i am trying to make is that it depends on the horse and the rider; some people need to understand when to try a different tactic and not blindly keep on with the same aids which obviously aren't working.

from what you said, i wouldn't have gotten off your horse in that situation either- imo, not proper napping and he went back in front of the leg pretty quickly.

out of interest, what would you have done with my horse if you weren't going to get off?
 
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it should be a last or emergency resort

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Says who? It depends entirely on the situation. I totally agree with Honeypots on this one; far better to jump off and lead past an obstacle than spend up to an hour arguing. Horses often take confidence from being led. Anyway, what works for one horse/rider combination may not work for another, but does it really matter if people find getting off is the best solution to a problem? And a slightly nervous rider may benefit from getting off and leading rather than enduring a long napping session. As long as the horse doesn't win, what is the problem?
 
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the point i am trying to make is that it depends on the horse and the rider; some people need to understand when to try a different tactic and not blindly keep on with the same aids which obviously aren't working.

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Yes.
 
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