DabDab
Thinks the luddites had a point...
No, just a little younger that the stated 20 years I think...
Getting seriously fed up with being bitten now!!
- Thread starter Ellietotz
- Start date
No, just a little younger that the stated 20 years I think...
KittenInTheTree
Well-Known Member
You don't actually get to have the final say over what's relevant and what isn't when it comes to the views and opinions of others. You may choose to endorse or dismiss them on a personal level, but that's the extent of your power. HTH.
_GG_
Well-Known Member
It's not a dictatorship, nobody has the final say. HTH
Apercrumbie
Well-Known Member
I am the poster (and I believe I am the only one) who suggested the OP could scratch the horse in the post below. To be very clear, as this is a safety issue, I only advocated this when the horse is tied up short so the OP can still do some things that she deems to be "bonding". I suggested it because for a horse who doesn't seem to be enjoying many human interactions, she may enjoy a little scratch as a reward. I would NEVER suggest mutually grooming a horse like this loose in a field - asking for a disaster. And given how much of the good advice given by other posters has been taken, I would probably not give this advice again as the OP is clearly too inexperienced to differentiate. I wanted to highlight it again as I don't appreciate the OP cherry picking what I have said when I believe I made it very clear what I meant. I don't believe the advice to be confusing or conflicting.
fburton
Well-Known Member
Apercrumbie, agreed.
Mutual grooming can be an ice-breaker and an effective way to convey to a horse your good intentions and non-threatening disposition. It's the only direct interaction that I can think of where you are actually emulating another horse to useful effect. However, not all horses appreciate this gesture or can be trusted to engage in this safely. The best / only advice for someone who has problems controlling behaviour, particularly in the mouth department, is PLEASE DON'T DO IT!
Mutual grooming can be an ice-breaker and an effective way to convey to a horse your good intentions and non-threatening disposition. It's the only direct interaction that I can think of where you are actually emulating another horse to useful effect. However, not all horses appreciate this gesture or can be trusted to engage in this safely. The best / only advice for someone who has problems controlling behaviour, particularly in the mouth department, is PLEASE DON'T DO IT!
cobgoblin
Bugrit! Millennium hand and shrimp.
I'm confused....does this horse actually bite or not?....by which I mean, does the horse take a chunk out or leave teethmarks and bruising? Or are we talking about a teeth basher or an over enthusiastic groomer?
Ellietotz
Well-Known Member
It's amazing how many people are getting butthurt from this. Okay, I did something wrong. I have taken advice and I can't learn everything in a day! To be clear, yesterday went extremely well and ended very positively. At no point did she initiate or demand the scratch, I did, I went over to her and I scratched her. Then when I was done, I left and ignored her while she followed me until she knew I wasn't turning around so went to graze again. Whether you all agree with it or not, I was happy and wanted to write about it. Same as when I made this thread, I was annoyed and I wanted to post about it, that's what a forum is for. I appreciate all the advice but insults are quite unnessecary and uncalled for. If you all are so much older than I am, you should probably know the phrase 'if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all.' Don't like the post? Don't comment. It's simple.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I am not sure you are in charge of what all of us think think is relevant .
_GG_
Well-Known Member
I shared my thoughts, I don't mean to come across as in charge. I've hardly used the forum lately. I think everyone can come across certain ways when they don't mean to.
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
You cant be in charge of who comments and how it's not now it works on here .
We don't do 'only comment if you are going to tell me I am wonderful 'on here .
FestiveFuzz
Well-Known Member
I think this is a perfect example of the stages of competence. At the moment I would say the OP is showing unconscious incompetence. She doesn't seem to know or understand how to read the situation or behave around the horse and seems unaware of her lack of understanding and the dangers she's exposing herself to. I'm actually stunned the mare's owner hasn't stepped in to assist at this stage as it's worrying someone that doesn't know how to ask the horse to step out of her space and not squish her is in sole charge of this horse.
In order for the OP to move through the stages to conscious competence I really do feel she needs external help to teach her how to read this horse and handle her competently. It's a shame she's being so selective in her reading of this thread as there's an awful lot of great advice here. Without help I genuinely think you'll end of screwing this horse up more as you're just too inexperienced I'm afraid.
In order for the OP to move through the stages to conscious competence I really do feel she needs external help to teach her how to read this horse and handle her competently. It's a shame she's being so selective in her reading of this thread as there's an awful lot of great advice here. Without help I genuinely think you'll end of screwing this horse up more as you're just too inexperienced I'm afraid.
The Fuzzy Furry
Old Timer
ester
Not slacking multitasking
Quite you specifically said stop messing with her in the field! I do worry that the OP seems t be missing a dose of common/horse sense, doesn't seem to have anyone around her that does and cannot seem to grasp what I see as well written and well explained posts on here.
It's no good saying you have taken advice Ellie, you have actively ignored or contradicted it since you acquired the loan of this mare, against advice.
Ellietotz
Well-Known Member
Clearly not what I said and missing the point but okay.
Ellietotz
Well-Known Member
To add a riposte, if you don't want differing opinions of advice, then don't post
It's not the differing opinions I'm referring to, it's the unnessecary insults, they are not needed, is all I am saying. If it makes people so annoyed, no one is forcing them to reply. We all had to start somewhere.
Hallo2012
Well-Known Member
glad that ended well.........................but it just as easily could not have.......................do you not see that you put yourself in a vulnerable position (approaching an aggressive horse in an open space and messing around with them loose then turned your back on her to walk away) despite many many more experienced people telling you not too? it ended well by sheer fluke and nothing more. It doesnt prove anything (except that you havent got a clue what you are doing!)
The Fuzzy Furry
Old Timer
I understand we all have to start somewhere.
However, you chose to post about issues, asking for advice.
Posters then gave advice, just about all in the same vein, some giving examples.
You then came back with another issue, quite clearly ignoring the initial advice.
More advice given by experienced persons.
You then decry this and get a tad snotty with other posters, also putting yourself in an unsafe position with a large animal.
To be honest, this is one of only a couple of threads this year where the OP has asked for advice, then completely ignored it and STILL come back to ask again. What were you expecting?
This isn't Facebook where you can delete non agreeing posts or posters, but as close as you'd get on a well run yard, having a number of experienced persons advice.
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Exploding Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
I have met a mare who had ben raised by a stupid owner, I still have the scars. It took a lot of time to bring her round, including belting her on the teeth with various bits of wood when she went for you.
She was a lovely ride, and I hacked her miles and miles with no problem, she was a big mare, slow for a racehorse, and a bit quirky in the stable, but actually had just been spoiled, so every individual handler had to be challenged, eventually we had a great "relationship", and she would come to call if I asked, she was probably intelligent, and recognised me a year later. I hope she got a good home. Maybe hunting. Bunty, a big mare.
There are some horses who need experienced handling. One cannot get practical experience on a forum.
She was a lovely ride, and I hacked her miles and miles with no problem, she was a big mare, slow for a racehorse, and a bit quirky in the stable, but actually had just been spoiled, so every individual handler had to be challenged, eventually we had a great "relationship", and she would come to call if I asked, she was probably intelligent, and recognised me a year later. I hope she got a good home. Maybe hunting. Bunty, a big mare.
There are some horses who need experienced handling. One cannot get practical experience on a forum.
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fburton
Well-Known Member
I would love to see some video of the behaviours being described. I appreciate why that's probably not feasible, but it would be so helpful in understanding what the problem actually is.
Exploding Chestnuts
Well-Known Member
The problem is the owner.
fburton
Well-Known Member
Quite possibly, but it would be useful to see with my (our) own eyes. It would be easier to point out where the owner is going wrong, imo. It isn't going to happen though, is it? *shrug*
ExmoorHunter
Well-Known Member
I took on a mare last year which a friend had rescued a couple of years earlier from a horrible situation. My friend had got her right physically and had worked on some of her issues.
She gave her to me as I keep mares and she wanted her to do a proper job and have a good life. However, when I moved her she trusted no-one, was extremely difficult to catch and was very fearful of anything and everything. If you pushed her too much she would try to escape/fight her way out of it and was extremely dangerous to herself and anyone around. She is a substantial cob and not something you would want to squash you! I keep my horses at home so was often on my own and had to be very careful although I did get flattened a couple of times.
I am not a professional but have been around horses for many years and have worked with a lot of projects but this mare really tested me. I cried tears of frustration and there were a number of times that I could've pulled the trigger myself. I always believed that this mare was a lovely person who had been badly abused but had to draw on all my experience and knowledge and really think hard about how to approach each situation with her. Understanding her body language and reacting to her in the best way in each situation was crucial.
I am pleased to say that, a year and a bit later, she is turning out to be what I believed she was and I am delighted. I think she may be a horse of a lifetime now. She trusts me, wants to be with me and please me which is making everything so much easier. I am still always aware of what my body language is saying to her though even just around the yard.
I would never never advise someone as inexperienced as the OP clearly is takes on a horse with such obvious issues and I feel very sorry for her mare. The OP cannot understand what the horse is telling her and also does not listen to advice on here from very experienced people even after soliciting that advice. The OP says she loves the horse but love is not enough. There is none so blind as those that cannot see (or listen in this case).
She gave her to me as I keep mares and she wanted her to do a proper job and have a good life. However, when I moved her she trusted no-one, was extremely difficult to catch and was very fearful of anything and everything. If you pushed her too much she would try to escape/fight her way out of it and was extremely dangerous to herself and anyone around. She is a substantial cob and not something you would want to squash you! I keep my horses at home so was often on my own and had to be very careful although I did get flattened a couple of times.
I am not a professional but have been around horses for many years and have worked with a lot of projects but this mare really tested me. I cried tears of frustration and there were a number of times that I could've pulled the trigger myself. I always believed that this mare was a lovely person who had been badly abused but had to draw on all my experience and knowledge and really think hard about how to approach each situation with her. Understanding her body language and reacting to her in the best way in each situation was crucial.
I am pleased to say that, a year and a bit later, she is turning out to be what I believed she was and I am delighted. I think she may be a horse of a lifetime now. She trusts me, wants to be with me and please me which is making everything so much easier. I am still always aware of what my body language is saying to her though even just around the yard.
I would never never advise someone as inexperienced as the OP clearly is takes on a horse with such obvious issues and I feel very sorry for her mare. The OP cannot understand what the horse is telling her and also does not listen to advice on here from very experienced people even after soliciting that advice. The OP says she loves the horse but love is not enough. There is none so blind as those that cannot see (or listen in this case).
Ellietotz
Well-Known Member
LadySam is currently helping me over message and I gave her a full example of what a normal day is which I could do here but who knows what the responses will be... I made her out to be much worse than she actually is and it escalated so quickly, she really isn't a horrible aggressive mare. When you see 'horse biting', the worst is often assumed. The owners foal is nippy too because of being fed treats constantly but this isn't a horribly aggressive dangerous horse. Although, it is actually getting extremely annoying, especially when you can't do anything in the field without him thinking you are made out of food and coming over to try and get a taste your arm or whatever. You can see where this upbringing came from huh? He is very spoilt and never gets told off. I'm the only one that tells him off for nipping me. They just think it's adorable. I also think he might have something wrong with him too, potentially ulcers but the owner doesn't believe in all of that, as I've said before. He windsucks, kicks his belly(rarely but does do it), saw him pawing the ground yesterday which could indicate stomach pain and he makes burping noises too, often grazes but spits it out sometimes and takes an extremely long time to eat. Mostly the windsucking though, he does that a lot. Could be teeth, throat, stomach, anything. But owner thinks it's because he is a baby... I'm not getting involved but it gives you a general idea of everything.
But generally, my mare is just grouchy! She doesn't like loads of attention which is my fault, I know that now. She gives me warnings, different levels of them, lowest level would be just a look, medium level is snapping her head at me like she will bite but not actually opening her mouth and the highest level is actually opening her mouth and just hitting me with her teeth. As I have been explaining this to LadySam, I have realised that the only times she hit me with her teeth are when it's my fault, I've brushed a scab on her chest by accident or something or I've just not taken the cue to move away and been in her face too long (referring to the the over-the-fence scenario). I now have a plan and I know what I will do. I will do exactly what I did yesterday but only up to the point I turned her back out and left her to do my jobs. I shouldn't have gone back in and I did but I quite often spend a lot of time scratching her in the field, she only gives me a look and walks away when she's done but this doesn't happen often, I normally am the one to have to get away from her otherwise I'll be scratching her for hours, she rarely gets bored of it. I won't give her this option now as I won't be doing that in the field until we have established boundaries and leadership. When and if I do scratch her when she isn't tied up, I will be walking away first. Other advice I took about keeping her happy is making sure I will only brush her where absolutely necessary, i.e. only saddle area and where she might actually be dirty.
To be completely honest, no, I'm not going to take absolutely everyone's advice, I will take what is the most suitable for me and the horse. I know what will work best and I will put that into play. I think we can all establish I'm not going to be walking away. I do trust her and I do know her limits. This has been a learning curve for myself too to realise what I have been doing wrong too.
Ellietotz
Well-Known Member
I can assure you, my mare is absolutely nothing like that as I have just explained in latest comment. Also like I said, I've learned what I am doing wrong and how I have been ignoring her warnings that she doesn't like being brushed there or she just wants to be left alone etc. I have been listening to all the advice. I don't have to take it all but I am taking on most of it apart from walking away. No one gains experience by walking away from difficult situations. If she was as dangerous as some of the examples on here, I would no way take her on. They could keep it!
Arzada
Well-Known Member
Yes we all had to start somewhere but are you? You have previously stated that you have 19 years of riding experience and 10 years of ownership/loans/project experience.
There is a level of frustration on this thread with your misinformation eg you stated in your OP and the thread title that you have been bitten. Umpteen posts later after posters have taken time to post kindly and share their views based on their extensive experience you said that she hit you with her teeth.
In addition in post #148 you spent a good half an hour grooming each other in the field but in post #187 you simply went over scratched her and walked away when you were done. No mention of mutual grooming.
It is also frustrating that you seem not to take things on board.
This thread viewed with your other threads suggests that you enjoy a drama or several dramas. You have been completely unfair to your mare by making her out to be way worse than she is. At the very least I hope you apologise to her next time you see her.
ycbm
Overwhelmed
I also know the phrase 'bad things happen when good people say nothing'.
This thread is full of good people trying to help you. But you seem unable to learn. Your last thread was locked at your own request after you started it with a title which could have been calculated to get you critical posts. Yet you seem to have done exactly the same again with this one.
You've now got considerable history of posting asking for advice and then either ignoring or rejecting the advice you are being given.
With comments like 'I know what will work best', I've started wondering why you are asking for advice on the forum at all.
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thegreenergrass
Well-Known Member
Shame on you Ellie. She's probably sat in her field crying because you made her out to be worse than she is on a horse and hound forum. My heart goes out to her.
Lets just leave Ellie alone now shall we? She gets to decide what to do with the advice you give, if you're annoyed at wasting time giving her advice which she hasn't perceived correctly or listened to, then why waste more time and energy getting angry about it and posting more?
ycbm
Overwhelmed
You are very new to the forum to be telling other people when they can and can't post.
Ellietotz
Well-Known Member
Oh god, who cares!! It's like a bloody playground! TGG you can't play with the popular ones, you are not welcome. We shall go and start our own group until we earn the right to speak to the elders :lol:
Absolutely pathetic. So if you are well known and have been on the forum as long as everyone else, you have different rights? LOL!
Ellietotz
Well-Known Member
:lol: She must be very heartbroken. I can't imagine what she thought when she logged into HHO and saw this. I feel terrible! :lol: