Getting to know each other.

Oh Joy:(:(I'm glad I've gotten to the age where my lot are just for pleasure and hacking, but there again I've never been competative. Did notice the horse held his chin to his chest himself, but no real relaxation in his outline or in himself,very tense.
 
Calm down dears it's not Rollkur:eek: Very brave to post this video and agree with Auslander, the horse is evading. Very interested to watch the progress of this pair! I also don't see the harm in more than one rider? :p
 
Agree with Auslander. To me, it looked like the horse was becoming tense and sucking back behind the vertical of his own accord and the rider was trying to encourage him to reach for the bit and relax. The horse would only uncurl himself for a few seconds here and there, but when he did, I noticed that the rider would give the rein.
 
Firstly what a beautiful horse, how old is he?

I love Spanish horses and have ridden a few although I'm certainly no expert. The ones I've ridden felt quite sensitive, moved quickly but didn't really go forward and I think it takes time to get to know them and for them to trust their rider. Your rider did give the rein to ask him to take it forward whenever he went behind the vertical which is good to see

In my opinion for what it's worth, if the horse was mine I'd have preferred the rider to spend time stretching him and getting to know him more before he did anything else.

Good luck with him :)
 
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Auslander said:
I'm going to go against the grain here (and I have on several occasions in the past harshly criticised the way this horse has been ridden, so am not biased!)

I think that the horse is a seriously hot little number, who uses speed to his advantage, is very adept at blocking the rider, and has no problem ducking right behind the vertical if he feels it will help him evade. If you watch the rider and not the horse, he is actually quite soft, and very quick to give the rein as praise for the horse when he offers a few correct steps/comes back out from being curled up and broken over at the poll.

He is extremely strong in the seat/core/legs - which I believe is what's making the horse throw all his toys out of his pram. There are moments where he looks a bit inelegant, but having ridden super hot spanish horses, I can sympathise! As a new partnership, its not pretty at the moment, but I'm very interested to see how it develops. I think this chap might surprise everyone!

FW - he was giving the rein to allow the horse to stretch, and Armas went to snatch - so he blocked him pretty hard. Didn't happen again, so Armas clearly saw the error of his ways!
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Wow the first person who actually watches and understands and a compliment Auslander I am astounded and thank you. Some of the previous posters DO not seem to have a good understanding of what they are watching guess I had expected more. Sorry.
Armas is extremely hot. He is a professional at evading when he does not want to do some thing. I am hoping that this will change this month with hard work.
The rider pointed out after his sessions that Armas hates the fact that he is strong with his legs, as sadly I am not. The rider also pointed out that he was not happy with his head position as he has a tendency to tuck it under or carry it far to high. Amongst other things.

Floxie said:
Thaaaaaaaaaaat's what caught my eye! That lower leg. Perhaps it's more jealousy than lust... ;)
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Yup I am sure as I am jealous of his lower leg which happens to be about a foot longer than mine and grips like glue :(

Broccoli said:
Calm down dears it's not Rollkur:eek: Very brave to post this video and agree with Auslander, the horse is evading. Very interested to watch the progress of this pair! I also don't see the harm in more than one rider? :p
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I will be videoing his sessions each day to see the progression which I am sure will surprise the arm chair critics ! Feel free to sign up to Armas home page for regular updates.

Caol Ila said:
Agree with Auslander. To me, it looked like the horse was becoming tense and sucking back behind the vertical of his own accord and the rider was trying to encourage him to reach for the bit and relax. The horse would only uncurl himself for a few seconds here and there, but when he did, I noticed that the rider would give the rein.
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Yessss.
 
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peony said:
And why are you getting 3 men to force him in to working like that and not riding him yourself? So once he is taught to work like that you can then jump on his back after all the hard work is done and prance about at shows?

Really don't understand people sometimes...
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Do you know what I hate? People that comment before reading posts so tiresome.

3 men forcing him ?? Shakes head in disbelief what rubbish you doth type.
 
Looking forward to more updates... just ignore those who don't know the history, the Spanish horse and anyone else who just wants to comment for the sake of it. People who have followed you will understand.
 
It will be really interesting to see how things change during the month :)

Your horse, you know him best and your decision.

I can understand your desire to 'Spanish' him up and from your previous posts it's clear that's important to you

Personally I would have taken him down a more English classic route but he isn't my horse and nor does he belong to anyone else here

Good luck with it. Btw - did you have your school resurfaced?
 
Armas, paint some big black patches on the horse, give him a megga hairy top lip and go live in a caravan.
You will then be able to do no wrong, and become a god like figure!!
As for all the people being critical, lets see your videos, I think the rider looked sympathetic on what is obviously a very lively and forward horse.
 
I also agree with Auslander - especially as I have a lot of respect for her as a very accomplished dressage rider.

Good luck with Armas and I look forward to more updates. :)
 
Ah, FINALLY! Well done you for going to the Mother Lode and getting a decent trainer on this lovely horse. For those that don't like seeing Armas looking "unhappy", this is what a horse who has had his bluff called looks like: he is being made to work, and he doesn't like it. He's trying every trick in his considerable armoury to evade carrying himself. Watch the video, it's quite educational; he is, variously, running off, going above the bit, behind the bit, BELOW the bit at one stage, behind the leg, stiffening, against the leg, shoulders out, quarters out/in. And EVERY time, often before the horse thinks of it, the rider reacts and stymies the clever horsie with a great deal of softness and tact when appropriate, and with firmness when required. Keep up the good work, this is the right thing for your horse.
 
I think this chap is a lovely rider.

You cannot expect a horse to immediately go in a correct outline, these Spanish horses are naturally up and often behind the vertical and rushing, not really accepting the contact - it is this that creates the choppy strides. You can actually see this rider inviting Armas down and out, the horse just needs to learn to accept the contact. He is using very little rein and lots of seat and leg. Best rider I have seen on Armas tbh (the horse is much much straighter because the rider is) and I am sure that we will see a difference. I like the way he uses the small circles and shoulder in to slow the horse down, I have to do this with one of mine who was very similar to Armas in way of going.

If I were you OP I would have the chap over regularly, he is so much better than anyone so far, trouble is though if you let your regular trainer ride him in the way he does then all the good work could be undone. I would ask this chap for homework and have him over every couple of months - onwards and upwards :)
 
Always Henesy said:
I also agree with Auslander - especially as I have a lot of respect for her as a very accomplished dressage rider.

Good luck with Armas and I look forward to more updates. :)
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Thank you :-)

Cortez said:
Ah, FINALLY! Well done you for going to the Mother Lode and getting a decent trainer on this lovely horse. For those that don't like seeing Armas looking "unhappy", this is what a horse who has had his bluff called looks like: he is being made to work, and he doesn't like it. He's trying every trick in his considerable armoury to evade carrying himself. Watch the video, it's quite educational; he is, variously, running off, going above the bit, behind the bit, BELOW the bit at one stage, behind the leg, stiffening, against the leg, shoulders out, quarters out/in. And EVERY time, often before the horse thinks of it, the rider reacts and stymies the clever horsie with a great deal of softness and tact when appropriate, and with firmness when required. Keep up the good work, this is the right thing for your horse.
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Wow high praze indeed first Auslander then Cortez :)

Amaranta said:
I think this chap is a lovely rider.

You cannot expect a horse to immediately go in a correct outline, these Spanish horses are naturally up and often behind the vertical and rushing, not really accepting the contact - it is this that creates the choppy strides. You can actually see this rider inviting Armas down and out, the horse just needs to learn to accept the contact. He is using very little rein and lots of seat and leg. Best rider I have seen on Armas tbh (the horse is much much straighter because the rider is) and I am sure that we will see a difference. I like the way he uses the small circles and shoulder in to slow the horse down, I have to do this with one of mine who was very similar to Armas in way of going.

If I were you OP I would have the chap over regularly, he is so much better than anyone so far, trouble is though if you let your regular trainer ride him in the way he does then all the good work could be undone. I would ask this chap for homework and have him over every couple of months - onwards and upwards :)
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It is so nice at last to have some posters who actually know a thing or too :eek:
 
I also agree with Amaranta, Auslander and Cortez and anyone else who thinks the rider is doing a great job!

The first thing I thought was how tactful he was dealing with everything Armas threw at him. I think he's going to bring this horse on greatly and I'll be really interested to see the difference in a month.

I also agree that time and money would be well spent in getting this rider over every couple of months with you consolidating the work in between. I think it will make a huge difference to his way of going. Good luck :)

ETA I've just requested to join your fb page too. x
 
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I actually really enjoyed this video. Usually when I see videos of this horse he is usually being "hung onto" a bit - which is easy to do with a horse that is strong and ongoing. This rider pushed him forward, while staying incredibly soft and supple, particularly through his hands (I am so jealous, I would have looked like a jelly!). Nowhere did I see him overbending the horse with his riding, it was just something that the horse did as an evasion. Even in the lateral work, which is something Armas tries to do a lot and I don't feel is quite ready for, the horse was allowed to go forward while being asked for the sideways movement, rather than clamping the forward movement while asking, which is more like how Armas has been asked previously (and is perhaps why he does overbend as an evasion?)

I actually think this trainer could really understand this horse and get good things from him. I think the horse will soon learn he has to work and then he will relax and get down to it, rather than tensing and looking for ways out of working.

I still think more than 3 or 4 sessions a week of this will be too much and will probably negate all the good work, making it stressful and boring for the horse, which you don't want..
 
I like the tactful riding and agree with Auslander's comments. Generally it was a nice picture and the choppiness will go and the relaxation will come as he settles and learns what he can and can't test out on the rider.
 
Auslander said:
I'm going to go against the grain here (and I have on several occasions in the past harshly criticised the way this horse has been ridden, so am not biased!)

I think that the horse is a seriously hot little number, who uses speed to his advantage, is very adept at blocking the rider, and has no problem ducking right behind the vertical if he feels it will help him evade. If you watch the rider and not the horse, he is actually quite soft, and very quick to give the rein as praise for the horse when he offers a few correct steps/comes back out from being curled up and broken over at the poll.

He is extremely strong in the seat/core/legs - which I believe is what's making the horse throw all his toys out of his pram. There are moments where he looks a bit inelegant, but having ridden super hot spanish horses, I can sympathise! As a new partnership, its not pretty at the moment, but I'm very interested to see how it develops. I think this chap might surprise everyone!

FW - he was giving the rein to allow the horse to stretch, and Armas went to snatch - so he blocked him pretty hard. Didn't happen again, so Armas clearly saw the error of his ways!
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^^ This.

It doesn't make for comfortable viewing as it's first hour with a new rider. I've had the pleasure of riding two spanish horses. The first very similar to Armas and would fight like this for the first while. If you let it escalate you'd be on the floor repeatedly, if you played it out without letting her get the upper hand on any situation, she'd then relax and let you ride her comfortably. She tested absolutely everyone who sat on her except for complete novices which she was an angel for.
Agree with the rein too, the mare had a horrible habit of suddenly sticking her head to the ground, never followed with a buck, but enough to unbalance you and take off. If you got the timing and blocked it she didn't bother, if she knew it worked you'd have a whole session of this. The gelding was worse at this and could do it in any gait and had learned not to tense first either so got very little warning. One of the traits in a horse that I can't stand and is far easier to work with if it's not acceptable from the start.

I didnt like watching it but am interested to see a few sessions in.
 
I love Armas, he's a bit of a dude :D You look like you've managed to find some of the best riders around to ride him- whoever is jumping him in your most recent videos has the most perfect seat and hands ever, nothing was wrong regardless of what shapes Armas threw!

I think people expect things to be perfect and look effortless straightaway. Which is potentially the cause of so many schooling question threads on here. In reality, a horse is unlikely to take to a slightly more demanding way of riding straight up. Reg threw almighty tantrums when Al started to ask for more from him initially, because it was harder and he preferred the easy way. Now, he offers up the correct work almost immediately and it's pleasant and effortless to watch.

Hope Armas knuckles down and enjoys himself soon- if you ever get fed up, post him over here as he looks like he could be a cracking SJ horse :D
 
Although I think four hours of schooling per day is at least twice as much as I would ever recommend for one horse, I actually don't agree with the majority of posters. This rider is actually incredibly soft with his hands and has a nice independent seat. If you look closely, you can see that it is the HORSE that is taking himself behind the vertical and there is very little weight in the rein. I would like to see this horse stretch more, but it looks to me that this is the way he has been trained to go, and it will take some time to encourage him to stretch over his back more. I was very impressed by the (almost) canter piroettes he did in the middle of the clip where the rider got him right back on his haunches.

I think that over the next couple of days, this rider should start to make a difference. I hope that Armas starts to relax more too.

By the way, did you ever get Armas a companion?
 
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Cortez said:
Ah, FINALLY! Well done you for going to the Mother Lode and getting a decent trainer on this lovely horse. For those that don't like seeing Armas looking "unhappy", this is what a horse who has had his bluff called looks like: he is being made to work, and he doesn't like it. He's trying every trick in his considerable armoury to evade carrying himself. Watch the video, it's quite educational; he is, variously, running off, going above the bit, behind the bit, BELOW the bit at one stage, behind the leg, stiffening, against the leg, shoulders out, quarters out/in. And EVERY time, often before the horse thinks of it, the rider reacts and stymies the clever horsie with a great deal of softness and tact when appropriate, and with firmness when required. Keep up the good work, this is the right thing for your horse.
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I'm no expert (!!AT ALL!!) and this is what I was thinking. I suppose it's like taking a child from play-school, into real school. I certainly didn't like it! I was too shy to throw a strop, but I didn't like it one bit. It was for my own good though, as is this.
B-e-a-utiful horse!
 
Tiffany said:
In my opinion for what it's worth, if the horse was mine I'd have preferred the rider to spend time stretching him and getting to know him more before he did anything else.

Good luck with him :)
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This. But then he isn't mine. So it's none of my business . . . ;).

P
 
As the owner of a hot horse who evades, there are not easy rides! I actually rather like the rider but I think it's going to take time to get your horse to a) accept the discipline and b) start to work in a softer outline. Spanish riders differ a lot from english and Spanish horses are a whole different kettle of fish! I do like our horse though. I don't agree with 4 hits riding but then again I haven't read *that* post so cannot comment :)
 
Must agree with Auslander, Cortez et al! I think that is one brilliant rider, Armas looks like the king of evasion, I'll take the crown off Louie and give it to him.

Louie is the same and will try every trick in the book for about 5-10 mins then he gives up and works nicely. Armas is obviously a lot more strong willed. :)

Really look forward to seeing him towards the end of the month.
 
Auslander said:
I'm going to go against the grain here (and I have on several occasions in the past harshly criticised the way this horse has been ridden, so am not biased!)

I think that the horse is a seriously hot little number, who uses speed to his advantage, is very adept at blocking the rider, and has no problem ducking right behind the vertical if he feels it will help him evade. If you watch the rider and not the horse, he is actually quite soft, and very quick to give the rein as praise for the horse when he offers a few correct steps/comes back out from being curled up and broken over at the poll.

He is extremely strong in the seat/core/legs - which I believe is what's making the horse throw all his toys out of his pram. There are moments where he looks a bit inelegant, but having ridden super hot spanish horses, I can sympathise! As a new partnership, its not pretty at the moment, but I'm very interested to see how it develops. I think this chap might surprise everyone!

FW - he was giving the rein to allow the horse to stretch, and Armas went to snatch - so he blocked him pretty hard. Didn't happen again, so Armas clearly saw the error of his ways!
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I missed this thread yesterday, but I totally and utterly agree with everything Auslander has said. The guy has soft hands and most certainly isn't forcing the horse's head anywhere. I too look forward to seeing what happens over the next few weeks, and as I understand it, it's not just about the trainer riding the horse, but teaching his owner to ride him too.
 
Cortez said:
Ah, FINALLY! Well done you for going to the Mother Lode and getting a decent trainer on this lovely horse. For those that don't like seeing Armas looking "unhappy", this is what a horse who has had his bluff called looks like: he is being made to work, and he doesn't like it. He's trying every trick in his considerable armoury to evade carrying himself. Watch the video, it's quite educational; he is, variously, running off, going above the bit, behind the bit, BELOW the bit at one stage, behind the leg, stiffening, against the leg, shoulders out, quarters out/in. And EVERY time, often before the horse thinks of it, the rider reacts and stymies the clever horsie with a great deal of softness and tact when appropriate, and with firmness when required. Keep up the good work, this is the right thing for your horse.
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This too :) Cortez, when are you coming for a cup of tea?:D
 
Wow did you get some rough comments to start with! I have to say, i didn't like the way your horse was going but can understand why. My mare has decided to start evading in the same way now! She changes every few rides to see what will work!!

I did like the rider tho, he was very gentle and giving With the reins, yet firm with the seat and legs which i like. I think they will progress nicely! But I am a novice at this stuff!

And I'm sure you will shorten the schooling time if your boy needs it, if he's fit enough.. Go for it. As long as he is happy to work!
 
Tiffany and ps. The Spanish mare I rode would have dumped you if you attempted this.
Out on a hack she would bounce for the driveway out and then settle. Took months to achieve the same in the school. First sit was not a chance in hell she'd have let me just walk/trot around relaxed. I knew her on the ground for a fair while before and then hacking. Even so school was a major battle on the first few times, every trick was thrown at me with the end result of being able to walk in and chill out. She did this to each new person in the school, went like a dream when you'd got it though
 
I add my penneth FWIW, I start by making the assumption that horse is used to being trained and not a horse would spends its whole time hacking about having a jolly time on a loose rien.
To my eye this is a hot hot horse in a bit of a strop the rider is strong very strong in fact and by that I mean he uses his core strength in his body to restrain the horse ,
The horse then uses an armoury of evasions to see what the rider does the answer is the rider does not do a lot except the same thing which is to say I am sitting here please get on with it chum .
It's not particularily pretty but itsann establishing ground rules thing going on from both the horse and rider and I look forward to seeing it in a week , the only thing I would add is that the horse appears to me a little unlevel behind at times but that could just be tension.
 
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