Getting tongue over bit, ideas?

[sessierose]

Brief background. I have a 14 yr old Irish x, he can be a bit backward but once you actually get him moving he has a lovely trot and canter. Have had previous issues with bridle lameness i.e when he finds something difficult he will throw in a hop and skip or offer canter instead of trot, has previously had tests ect which came back with nothing and always sound hacking, on the lunge etc.

The issue. He tends to try and get his tongue over the bit at certain times, i must point out its not always. Can go for a hack and he wont try it at all then certain times he does. It seems to be more when he is anticipating something like canter, this can be in company or on his own. He does do it when schooling if he finds something difficult. Had a lesson on Friday and he was mouthing and trying to draw his tongue up a bit, but for the most of it was quite settled and did some nice work.

I have tried all sorts of snaffles and with a plain cavesson, flash noseband, drop noseband and he has previously been in a pelham. I have moved the bit up/ down, tightened nosebands, loosened. He is currently in a myler hanging check with low port as i thought that might offer some extra tongue relief, i am currently trying this with the drop.

He has been pretty good in this combination since coming back in to work after a couple of months off over winter, but took him out this morning on his own and again had one of his 'silly episodes'. He just refuses to go forwards, backs off, draws his head in and tries to get his tongue over. He has done this before when i had the flash on and i put it down to being restricted an unable to do what he ultimately wants to which is get his tongue over. Again, he did it after we had had a canter and the wind had started to pick up a bit. He's not been out much on his own since last year, so wondering if it was just a stressy moment.

I'm just wondering if its something i just have to accept he does occasionally or am i missing something glaringly obvious?!! I will admit i am quite a novice owner so any ideas greatly appreciated!

 

[Foxhunter49]

Horses that do this are PITAs! No noseband will stop them doing it. Even with your teeth clamped shut you can roll your tongue back - so can a horse!

Three options I can think of.
First you can get a rubber tongue stop that fixes onto the bit. I dislike this because they change the action of the joint of the bit.
Second you can get a metal tongue stop. This is higher than the rubber one and fits onto a running head of a double bridle.
Thirdly and by far the easiest, is to cut the leg off a pair of tights, put this across the mouth and under the tongue and put a single knot in it - doesn't need to be very tight, and then knot the two ends under the jaw. This allows for tongue movement but stops them drawing their tongue back to get it over the bit.

Once they have been ridden with this for a couple of months they usually stop rolling their tongues back.

 

[hayley.t]

My friends ex-racer did this frequently out hacking and she tried a peewee bit, after a little bit of research, and she wouldn't look back now.

 

[BabyA]

I've had a similar problem now I use a naith bit with a port in it. He can't get his tongue over that! Bought on line.

 

[Hippona]

After four years and every bit in the book I bought a Micklem multi bridle....I was contemplating bitless but didn't need to in the end. No more tongue over the bit or general faffing.
I've just tried my other horse in it and he goes better in it too.

 

[Hippona]

Horses that do this are PITAs! No noseband will stop them doing it. Even with your teeth clamped shut you can roll your tongue back - so can a horse!

Three options I can think of.
First you can get a rubber tongue stop that fixes onto the bit. I dislike this because they change the action of the joint of the bit.
Second you can get a metal tongue stop. This is higher than the rubber one and fits onto a running head of a double bridle.
Thirdly and by far the easiest, is to cut the leg off a pair of tights, put this across the mouth and under the tongue and put a single knot in it - doesn't need to be very tight, and then knot the two ends under the jaw. This allows for tongue movement but stops them drawing their tongue back to get it over the bit.

Once they have been ridden with this for a couple of months they usually stop rolling their tongues back.

Why not find out why the horse does it instead of just trying to stop it?
In my case it was fat tongue and small mouth and the bit clips on the micklem suspend the bit and create more room.
Strapping shut and stuffing tights in the mouth is downright cruel IMO.
Try listening when your horse is telling you he's uncomfortable.

 

[Pale Rider]

I'd find something like an old draw or bucket, even a dustbin place the bit carefully inside and forget it until you don't need one.

 

[Enfys]

Take the bit out of the equation for a while?

There are a whole bunch of hackamores or bitless bridles out there, of varying severity, unless you are competing in a sphere where a bit is absolutely necessary there's no harm in giving it a go.

 

[Enfys]

I'd find something like an old draw or bucket, even a dustbin place the bit carefully inside and forget it until you don't need one.

Nice one

 

[Goldenstar]

Google bomber bits they make all sorts of bit but have Mullen mouthed ones with an usually shaped shallow ports to make room for the tongue if I where in your place these are what I would be exploring.
I would also try a micklem bridle to see if it helps.

 

[sessierose]

Thanks for all the info. Lots of different ideas there. I did look in to Mickelham bridle and liked the idea behind it, it would be handy to be able to try one before buying as they're quite expensive! Might have a look on ebay for a second hand one to try.

It's just frustrating as it's not all the time, a lot of the time he is quite settled, it just seems to be if he gets anxious or stressed which makes me think its just his way of evading what is being asked as opposed to the bit being the actual problem. But i'm definitely not discounting that it is!!

I definitely know 'strapping' his mouth shut isn't helping as this seems to make him more stressed if he then cant do what he wants. To be honest i know absolutely nothing about bitless or hackamores so this is something i would need to look in to first.

The bit he is in now has a low port, but will definitely look at other options. Think i'll end up with my own bit bank soon.

 

[horseandshoes77]

my young mare can be like this, usually when shes getting frustrated that I want her to listen or when shes bored, iv tried lots of different combinations including flash which made it worse so iv took noseband off all together and shes in an ns verbindend (sp) hacked out a dream like this seemed much more relaxed and was quite still in the mouth for a change !

 

[juliette]

My friends ex-racer did this frequently out hacking and she tried a peewee bit, after a little bit of research, and she wouldn't look back now.

My friend had great success with one of these bits with her cob.

 

[BabyA]

There is a Facebook page that hires out micklam bridles! Try before you buy!

 

[Foxhunter49]

Why not find out why the horse does it instead of just trying to stop it?
In my case it was fat tongue and small mouth and the bit clips on the micklem suspend the bit and create more room.
Strapping shut and stuffing tights in the mouth is downright cruel IMO.
Try listening when your horse is telling you he's uncomfortable.

I agree with you however, there are horses that will do this just because they can.

Tying a tongue down is not cruel, they can still move the tongue and it does not interfere with the bit action.

One horse I had was known for doing this and only after he had his tongue tied down for a while did he stop doing it and I can assure you that I do know about bit fitting.

 

[Pale Rider]

Foxhunter49 if you say tying a tongue isn't cruel I'll believe you, in a pig's eye.

So long as it doesn't interfer with the action of the bit, that's alright then.

 

[posie_honey]

My mare does this work every mouthpiece bar the cotswolds sport tongue saver, (Def worth a try) a Waterford and a forward high ported NS show Pelham.
I have legally tried everything else!
For Her it is tongue room

 

[Hippona]

Tying a tongue down is not cruel, they can still move the tongue and it does not interfere with the bit action.

.

I don't care whether it interfers with bit action or not.....its cruel. The thought of having a pair of tights on my own tongue is setting my teeth on edge right now.

Put your money where your tongue is, and spend a few hours with a section of tights wrapped around your own.

 

[theoilbaron]

Brief background. I have a 14 yr old Irish x, he can be a bit backward but once you actually get him moving he has a lovely trot and canter. Have had previous issues with bridle lameness i.e when he finds something difficult he will throw in a hop and skip or offer canter instead of trot, has previously had tests ect which came back with nothing and always sound hacking, on the lunge etc.

The issue. He tends to try and get his tongue over the bit at certain times, i must point out its not always. Can go for a hack and he wont try it at all then certain times he does. It seems to be more when he is anticipating something like canter, this can be in company or on his own. He does do it when schooling if he finds something difficult. Had a lesson on Friday and he was mouthing and trying to draw his tongue up a bit, but for the most of it was quite settled and did some nice work.

I have tried all sorts of snaffles and with a plain cavesson, flash noseband, drop noseband and he has previously been in a pelham. I have moved the bit up/ down, tightened nosebands, loosened. He is currently in a myler hanging check with low port as i thought that might offer some extra tongue relief, i am currently trying this with the drop.

He has been pretty good in this combination since coming back in to work after a couple of months off over winter, but took him out this morning on his own and again had one of his 'silly episodes'. He just refuses to go forwards, backs off, draws his head in and tries to get his tongue over. He has done this before when i had the flash on and i put it down to being restricted an unable to do what he ultimately wants to which is get his tongue over. Again, he did it after we had had a canter and the wind had started to pick up a bit. He's not been out much on his own since last year, so wondering if it was just a stressy moment.

I'm just wondering if its something i just have to accept he does occasionally or am i missing something glaringly obvious?!! I will admit i am quite a novice owner so any ideas greatly appreciated!

Just found your post from several years ago and you could have been describing my horse!! Just wondering how you got on and did you manage to find a solution ?

 

[JennBags]

Just found your post from several years ago and you could have been describing my horse!! Just wondering how you got on and did you manage to find a solution ?

The OP hasn't logged on since 2015 so I doubt she's around to answer your question!

 

[poiuytrewq]

My little ex racer was known for getting his tongue over the bit and just tearing off in training.
He had a chunky single jointed eggbut snaffle and very tight crank....
This combo wasn’t really in my plans, I’m currently (after trying a few) using a double jointed (lozenge) with a much thinner mouth piece and eggbut cheeks (he seemed unsettled in a loose ring) his mouth is small, his tongue big and low palette.

 

[Gazen]

The original poster has / had a horse just like my gelding, in fact it could be him. I have now had him for 3 years.
He usually starts with head shaking and snatching then he gets his tongue over the bit. We knew that he was sensitive on his head as when we bought him he wouldn't let him touch his head or ears so we figured that the behaviour was down down to discomfort. We had an improvement when I changed to a Neue Schule team-up egg butt snaffle. I then had further improvement when we changed to a Michlem. Unfortunately the head piece snapped and we had to change back to a cavesson for a short time and he was nearly unrideable again. We now have an anatomical bridle (a Fairfax clone). The advantage of this bridle is that it is very adjustable and we took a while to find the adjustment that was to my geldings liking. It was slightly more expensive than a Micklem but the leather is far better quality and as I said very adjustable.

We still have episodes when the head shaking, snatching, tongue-over-bit combo makes him unrideable but that is usually down to flies so I put him in 'ears' and a nose net which settles him down. When the flies are really bad I put his field fly mask on over the bridle which stops the flies from going into his eyes. The down side is that you can't hack or jump whilst wearing a fly mask as it impedes his vision and makes him spooky.

One thing that is never going to change is that he head shakes and snatches when he is anxious, so I have to manage his anxiety, which I feel is going to be a life's work.