Getting Welsh Section D fit enough for eventing

S

SJW23

Member
Joined
26 June 2015
Messages
19
Visit site
Hi Guys, I am new to HHO and this is my first post :) Sorry for the massive essay, but I thought lots of info would help :)

A little bit of background on my horse:
I have a (very big!) Welsh Section D cob, hes 13yo and 16.1hh and I have had him for nearly 2 years now. We spent the first year getting to know each other, having lessons and doing some Intro/Prelim dressage tests - He had previously hunted and done a lot of dressage so he has been doing a grand job of bringing me on and looking after me :)
As well as carrying himself nicely for dressage, he has a fab jump on him (I am yet to reach his full potential!) and is usually very honest and bold and jumps out of his stride - he really enjoys his work in all disciplines :)

Last year our dressage was up to a good level Prelim/Novice but our jumping was nearly none existent due to my nerves and not really having any jumping lessons before - he wanted to rush into them all as he was so excited which was off putting for a beginner. We did do a few jumping comps end of last year but I was mainly a passenger whilst he looked after me! We have got it together now (focused on the jumping mainly since Feb this year) and we are jumping 70-80cm well and as a partnership, occasionally the odd 90cm fence, so we are going to try our first 75-80cm unaff ODE (this sunday!!).

My concern is whether he is fit enough. I ride him 5-6 days a week (occasionally 4) and we try and do something along the lines of:
Mon: 30 min hack, mostly in trot with a couple of canters (and up any hills we can find!)
Tues: Dressage in the field (approx 30 mins)
Wed: Same as monday,30 min fast hack
Thurs: Off
Fri: Canter interval work in the field, usually try and do 3x 2-3 min fast canters over uneven terrain
Sat: Show jumping or Xc schooling for an hour in a group session
Sun: A mainly trotting hack or a show etc, depending on the week

(Its hard to sort out a schedule where he doesn't jump 2 days in a row, or do interval work after a day off etc, so I play it by ear and it changes week to week depending on comps and lessons booked etc.)

Some days he is such hard work and I really have to kick him on constantly, and other days I struggle to hold him, with prancing on the spot and excited bucks (which I much prefer!) - The result of sunday could depend on the mood he is in! In a show jumping course I struggle to canter him the whole way round without him breaking into trot (his prefered pace) but we can get over a 70-80cm jump in trot if need be. Again, in a XC lesson, we would practice 3/4 jumps together but then rest - we have not done a full XC course yet without breaks so this is my main concern.

What do you think? Am I doing enough and he will run off a bit of adrenaline on the day, or should I be doing more work with him in a week?

P.s. In case it helps, I feed him 1 cup of Speedi-beet, 3.5 cups of Baileys Performance Balancer Mix & 1 large scoop of chaff per day (split into 2 meals). Is this suitable?
 
Hello,

what a lovely horse! :-)
I'd say what you're doing is more than enough for a 5/85cm ODE. He also looks pretty well and fit in the pics. I do endurnace with my Welsh cob and find it's interesting fittening him as definitely takes twice as much as it would with an Arab or a less 'heavily muscled' (who am i kidding, i mean fat) breed.

However, I am unclear as to why you're worried about his fitness, is it because he doesn't like to canter the whole way round a course etc? It does sound like he's being a bit lazy, but you know him - does he feel tired?

One thing i would say about my welshie (who is fit but also can be lazy when he wants - same as yours, one minute lazy, the next explosive), is that a lot of it for him is about motivation. Sometimes on an endurance ride i think he's had it and he feels knackered (we call it his 'dying trekking pony act'), then two minutes later another horse passes us, or we see a scary pheasant, and suddenly he's completely full of beans and pulls me round the next 20km! So maybe it's similar, he just can't be arsed sometimes ;-) but has the energy when he wants to? This would make sense in terms of the fact that your workload sounds pretty solid.

I find it's the fast work that makes the difference for mine in terms of topping off his fitness - that and hills.

Hope that helps vaguely?
 
He sounds as if he will be fine for Sunday, too late if he is not, just ensure he has a chance to rest between each phase, so he can have a drink and a bite of hay, with a decent warm up but be careful not to overdo it trying to get everything "perfect" if he feels tired take the xc steady there is no reason you cannot give him a trot to let him catch his breath it does not have to be done flat out just make sure you pick him up properly in time for the next fence.

In general I think that I would want to be doing some longer hacks, if possible to fit in, 30 mins is not very long, 1 hour 30mins with plenty of walking, hillwork etc would be my idea of a fittening hack, if he is doing xc schooling on a Sat then I would rather do a flat session or a decent hack in preference to the interval training which at the level you are competing is probably not really that beneficial or necessary, he sounds as if he probably lacks stamina and getting out for longer would help with this.
If you don't count the weekend he is doing no more than 2 hours work, not a lot really when most people will aim to do an hour daily with longer if trying to get the horse fit.
 
SJW23, where are you based? We've got a 75-80cm on our yard in Cheshire this weekend.
Lovely looking horse but my advice for a first time is take it easy on him and keep him enjoying it. Don't worry about optimum times on this occasion just get round in a pace that he feels comfortable with.
I have a pure bred clydie and I know we will probably never make the time but I just push as far as he's comfortable with and get the best from him while we both enjoy it!
Good luck
 
Thanks for your replies everyone!

The fitness worries me as like you say Morgan123 - One minute he can be so lazy and slow, the next he can be explosive (perfect descriptive word for him!). When I do canter training with him, I have taught him to go following a count down (54321 GO!) and he is dancing as he knows it means go! but he seems to use it all up in one go and has low stamina - think we need to work on that. I don't think Sundays ODE (which btw is at Smallwood abbijay as I am based in Cheshire too near Delamere Forest!) is too much for him, workload wise but I just wondered if people have tips to give him that bit extra fitness to be comfortable doing a BE80 ODE and to help him canter the full course. I am not aiming to make the time on Sunday, just a fun first ODE and will trot if necessary to give him breaks - once he locks onto a jump a few strides out he will usually break into canter himself so that helps :)

Thanks for the advice ''be posetive'', I will increase the hacks up to an hour weekdays and longer at weekends :)

I did an 8 week fitness plan with him in March/April and since then i have just kept on top of it instead of pushing it and I have seen a massive improvement from March to now in his fitness - However he still gets very long and flat in canter so I have been trying to do as many hills as possible - is trot or canter best up hills for fitness?

I think you are probably right though Morgan123 - it must be laziness - our horses sound very similar!!

Will let you know how I get on :)
 
Yes, you're at our yard! I will keep my eye out for you.
You've picked a nice place for a first outing for him, not too hilly and nothing overly technical on it either so I definitely don't think your fitness sounds too far off to get him round comfortably.
My boy is in a similar level of work to yours (he's doing the 70 on Sunday) but we do include at least one long (2 hour plus) hack in most weeks to get the miles under his belt as I find lots of long and slow seems to pay dividends on his fizz and bounce!
 
You probably need to give him a proper routine, so six days a week he is doing a good hour plus 12 mins walk to warm up and 12 mins walk to cool down, time this or you will cut corners, the walk should be a good strong pace, not an amble along, on the last five minutes let him have as much length of rein as possible, and leave him to find his own pace. You are best to get off and walk him home if he has been working hard or is sweaty.
A regular work routine will get him back on track.
Be more disciplined in your work and he will reward you by being the same horse every day.
Don't mess about with his cantering, keep him relaxed. Walk, trot, canter, not stop, GO!!!!!!
 
Last edited:
Ah okay! See you there then abbijay :) Likewise, I will look out for you on your Clydie - but I think you will be in the morning, my times are 12.43, 1.50 & 2.34! Walking the course at 5 tomorrow :)

We did some schooling with him at Smallwood a few weeks ago and he was fab - No stops and he got more & more excited, but we had to trot at the top of the steps with the log (usually about jump 7?)! I'm pretty sure we will have to have a trot after that on the day! Hopefully I will only have to fight his napping for jump 1 & 2 and then he will start to enjoy it and really go!

Will definitely increase the length of his hacks then - I love him fizzy & bouncy! :D

Good luck!
 
Thanks Bonkers2, I will up his workload then similar to your suggestion above - I always warm him up and cool him down for at least 10 mins each and I make sure he gets the same amount of hard feed each day and goes out on the same paddock each day.
 
I'd be doing way more hacking too, 30 minutes isn't very far or long at all! My Sec D will do 5.5 miles in an hour (mostly walking atm).

I hope you don't mind me asking, how is your boy bred? I'm looking for a bigger (15.3hh+) Sec D but they seem to be thin on the ground at the moment.
 
Just give it a go OP and you can always trot round some bits if needed. Like most Welsh D's, trot is their preferred pace anyway - I did intro BE with my 15.2hh Welsh D when I had him and he struggled a little bit with stamina purely because he kept overjumping everything (they jump like deer!) but he managed to get round fine, it was always really hard to get him massively fit though - they're just a totally different type to your TB types obviously. But if you're really worried, hire a XC course prior and go and do a proper round?
 
Ah right ok, sometimes we do longer hacks like 1.5 hours with some canter hills in the middle, I haven't had loads of time to hack recently so the 30 mins was intense (with a warm up and cool down either side), he was always puffing and did majority in trot with a good fast canter section and 2 big hills (Most days he feels like he could do more but like I said I haven't had much time after work. I have changed jobs 2 weeks ago so now I have more time to ride so can increase this :) ). I did build it up - when I started back in March/April he did mostly longer walk/trot hacks. Will try and do longer hacks with more walk work included. When I do trot stamina work with him, we do a 3 mile loop in a steady trot :)

I haven't had to get a horse fit before this so I have been following advice from people but most people I speak to have TB's so the don't need to do half as much fitness as me! - I didn't know which area to focus on most when I work him to get the best results, but it seems long active hacks are the way forward, and getting him into a more regular work schedule to get him to be the same horse every day! thank you all :)

Thanks for the advice! 'DirectorFury' -I will dig out his passport later and let you know his parentage if that helps? :)
 
Welsh Ds I think do lack natural stamina so you have to have them fitter than some other breeds. They are good at trotting for long periods but generally speaking they find canter work harder.

The fitter he is the more he will be prancey and as you like him like that I would aim to build up the work load after the event. Myself and my friend both had success feeding oats to our Ds. A small amount daily and an increase the night before stamina was required.
 
SJW23 said:
- I love him fizzy & bouncy! :D

Good luck!
Click to expand...
Take a professional approach, imagine you have to ride six fit horses per day one after the other, you would no longer want fizzy and bouncy, that is why pro riders are pro!!! If you have excess energy go for a six mile run before you ride. Just because you can stay on top does not make you a horseman. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Any horse which behaves as you describe is not getting enough work. Any horse needs regular work. Work is not going flat out on Monday, a few jumps on Wednesday, cross country on Saturday and dressage on Sunday, when it is sufficiently tired to behave.
Slow work build muscles and stamina, galloping 26 times round a field [see other posts!] does not make a horse fit. Buy a book and make a plan.
 
Last edited:
I can't imagine riding six fit horses a day would be ideal if they were fizzy and bouncy, but for me, when my boy is like that its a nice change from lazy and bare minimum effort - its nice when he is just as excited as me, that's all I meant :)

I also never said I anywhere near close to pro, I only really jumped for the first time a year ago and I am just enjoying slowly building a partnership with my horse. I didn't imagine I would even be considering a ODE this time last year!

I don't have excess energy before I ride and I don't think I am a brilliant rider just because I can 'stay on top'. I think we have crossed wires here, when I say 'fizzy & bouncy' - he never rears, bucks, bolts, or gets out of control, he just dances on the spot a little as he is excited about jumping - it doesn't happen very often and I don't feel that he is under worked for his current level of fitness - although he could definitely benefit from more/harder work. Having said that, he could be much fitter which is why I was asking for fitness tips for Welshies on here, and I put up my current fitness plan to receive constructive critisism - I have take everybody's advice on board and will improve his fitness plan accordingly.

I try and give him regular work where I can - I am trying to do the best for him which is why I have posted on here for advice.
 
Last edited:
SJW23 said:
I can't imagine riding six fit horses a day would be ideal if they were fizzy and bouncy, but for me, when my boy is like that its a nice change from lazy and bare minimum effort - its nice when he is just as excited as me, that's all I meant :)

I also never said I anywhere near close to pro, I only really jumped for the first time a year ago and I am just enjoying slowly building a partnership with my horse. I didn't imagine I would even be considering a ODE this time last year!
Click to expand...

Horses are horses, they do not know if they are at the Olympics or at the local show, if you are happy to have your horse as it is, why did you post?
It is nothing to do with the level you are working at, all horses have the same needs and respond in the same way. If you want to look as though you can ride because you can sit on a bouncy horse, so be it.
You do not want your horse to be excited, you have to make sure he does not know you are excited, that is the whole point, maybe ask your instructor to explain the deal.
To give you an example, I was never a "good rider" but I was able to ride "good horses" and "flighty horses" and "useless horses" because I was calm, being calm, my horses were calm, I took on horses with problems and I "empathised" with them, mostly they won races after I took them on. Do NOT gee your horse up. It is stupid. Others may comment, but I am in a hurry, sorry if blunt.
 
Last edited:
Really don't get where you are coming from Bonkers. Not the same place as I and I assume not the same place as the op!

All of mine are cobs and they are all really well behaved and fun. Fizzy and bouncy doesn't mean idiotic. I know exactly what you mean op and it's nothing to do with showing off on a crazy horse.
 
Bonkers2 said:
Horses are horses, they do not know if they are at the Olympics or at the local show, if you are happy to have your horse as it is, why did you post?
It is nothing to do with the level you are working at, all horses have the same needs and respond in the same way. If you want to look as though you can ride because you can sit on a bouncy horse, so be it.
Click to expand...


I think from previous replies and my original post that it is quite obvious that I am not very experienced and I can see that you are much more experienced than me. I have taken something away from each of the above posts with advice that people have provided and I am really grateful that so many people have commented. I posted because prior to this post I was not sure what sort of level his fitness is compared to what other people do - the general consensus is that he does enough to get him round on sunday but should be doing a lot more. People have also kindly included advice in the areas we need to work on. I didn't say I was happy with the way he is, I know he could be fitter but I didn't know what to do to get him so, I have been reassured that he will be comfortable on sunday, and I now have an idea of what to work on in future. My
horse is far from bouncy - see video of us below and see my edited post above when I have explained what I mean by bouncy. Finally, we did start off with slow work - I didn't just through him into fast work.

Constructive criticism is helpful, unpleasant comments are not and I am trying to take into account lots of mixed views to do the right thing by my horse. How am I to know without asking for help?
 
Tiddlypom said:
He's a lovely looking chap. However, if he was mine, I'd scratch from the event at the w/e and get him fitter before entering another.
Click to expand...

I think the OP would be missing out by withdrawing, she seems sensible enough to allow him to go at a steady pace or to pull up if he gets tired, by taking part she will learn so much and it is highly unlikely to do any harm to a 13 year old horse who looks very well in the photos, he is not seriously overweight or unfit just probably lacking the stamina required to be competitive in the xc phase.

Experience cannot be developed without getting out there and having a go, sometimes it can be a steep learning curve but as long as the horse is not put at risk there is no harm in having a go even if you are slightly under prepared, that way she can put into practice what has been learned, not many people are fully ready for their first ever ODE, many are barely ready when they have done far more than the OP, you can to go to any BE/PC event and see tired horses/ ponies and riders struggling round, not saying it is right but most will think they are fit enough just because they complete.
 
Thanks for your comments Tiddlypom & be posetive, I will still go on sunday and see how he gets on - I will take it steady and trot when he needs to (he can happily trot all day, its the canter he struggles to maintain). He can happily do an hour XC schooling and he will happily canter across fields (where I have been practicing for 2/3 minutes before needing a break) its the stamina he is lacking in. Its likely that he is playing on his laziness a lot of the time).

Video link below is from 2 weeks ago and after having done 30 minutes of schooling already - he is blowing a bit but not looking too tired - I have a rough idea of how he feels when his laziness turns to tiredness and will retire if necessary - it will give me a good stating point to work on in the future.

The course is 75-80cm and having been to the venue to school (video below) there is likely to only be 1 or 2 jumps which will be 80cm. The course is approx 1.8km so I don't think I have completely overfaced him - but on the other hand maybe I could have been more prepared. It is very difficult to judge how fit a horse needs to be to handle an ODE when I have minimal experience. I am not out to win anything on sunday and I am expecting to have slow time faults.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh9UH8jocp0&feature=youtu.be
 
SJW23 said:
I think from previous replies and my original post that it is quite obvious that I am not very experienced and I can see that you are much more experienced than me. I have taken something away from each of the above posts with advice that people have provided and I am really grateful that so many people have commented. I posted because prior to this post I was not sure what sort of level his fitness is compared to what other people do - the general consensus is that he does enough to get him round on sunday but should be doing a lot more. People have also kindly included advice in the areas we need to work on. I didn't say I was happy with the way he is, I know he could be fitter but I didn't know what to do to get him so, I have been reassured that he will be comfortable on sunday, and I now have an idea of what to work on in future. My
horse is far from bouncy - see video of us below and see my edited post above when I have explained what I mean by bouncy. Finally, we did start off with slow work - I didn't just through him into fast work.

Constructive criticism is helpful, unpleasant comments are not and I am trying to take into account lots of mixed views to do the right thing by my horse. How am I to know without asking for help?
Click to expand...

I am suggesting that you are encouraging the horse when he is bouncy and fizzy because you enjoy those moments, but you need to be calm and confident and thus encourage the horse to be calm and confident. Bouncy and fizzy is fine occasionally but overall he needs to knuckle down and do the job.
 
Last edited:
I agree with other posters who have said he looks like he needs more work to increase his stamina, although that said, I have a TB who is so easy to get fit so I cannot share any tips for the welsh types with you! Just longer hacks, combinations of long/slow work and short/fast.
In your shoes I would still go on Sunday, but as you have already said, be prepared to trot for a bit if needed on the XC. You have good times, so that should give him a bit of a breather in between phases.
I have looked at your pic and your vid and I have to say what a lovely boy he seems! He was certainly enjoying the XC fences, so lovely to see. Good luck for Sunday, make sure you enjoy yourself, eventing is lots of fun! (and slightly addictive...)
 
I have a welshie too, he has always been better in bursts which is why hunting suits him! Hill hacking has really helped him but he is still quite lazy and I do have to remind him how fit he is at times - unless it is something he really enjoys! He doesn't see the point of hacking the same routes (loves a new one!) or warming up! I have however found that though he is a good doer I do need to feed him for the work I am asking for and the extra calories have always been used up in extra oomph rather than inches and he tolerates oats well and gets a fair amount he also gets linseed and beet/fibre as slow release sources. Also he really doesn't function well in the heat which I accept or clip him in summer. When competing he was also always better stables the night before so he could get a good kip! My mums Anglo was an awful lot easier!
 
I have two large Welsh D's both are 16.1 mares.
I have evented the older one up to BE Novice and although not the fastest horse on the planet she is clever and I never interfered with her Rythmn so we were always one of the fastest horses across country.
My 5 year old on the other hand although fast is inconsistent and we will often trot between fences as she is unpredictable.
I want her to grow in confidence and be as smart and capable as the other one so I am happy with this arrangement.
Go have fun and as you do more events both of you will grow in confidence.
In my experience at the lower level unaffilated events even if you are slow if you are double clear you will be placed.
Good luck
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top