Gggrrr, my YOs have turned into dictators!!

[BFG]

I run a yard and we have a worming programme obtained from a vet. We all stick to it but don’t have to keep them in, we poo pick the fields weekly and do a worm count annually to ensure the worming is working.

I try and accommodate all the horses needs and wants so for instance a poorly horse can have its own turn out if needed.

However, no matter how hard you try there are always the liveries (DIY) that don’t want to pull there weight and it is hard if for instance everyone poo picks but one person doesn’t that isn’t fair and that person needs telling.

Most yard rules should be common sense; i don’t impose stupid rules but do expect the rules i have in place to be followed for the safety of horse and owner. I hope that doesn’t make me a dictator?????

 

[MagicMelon]

[ QUOTE ]
Move - I would not be prepared to give my horse another dose of wormer so quickly - and they wonder why they get resistance to wormers......

[/ QUOTE ]

Same here, I'd refuse to have my horses wormed again - utterly pointless! Its not good for them to be wormed anyway IMO (full of chemicals) so done more often than recommended is ridiculous! I'd move.

 

[emma69]

As I understand it (as explained by a vet) the wormers do not kill 100% of anything, even when given in the correct doses they are closer to 80% (and apparently a whole heck of a lot people underdose their horse as their weight estimates are wrong, and wormer ends up in places other than the horses stomach) and due to the effects on the insides, they will poop out more than during a normal 'poop'. Wormers reduce, not eliminate worms. Our vets advice (which ensured far lower worm counts) was to worm, keep stabled, then turn into a new sun-harrowed field.

 

[Shilasdair]

[ QUOTE ]
As I understand it (as explained by a vet) the wormers do not kill 100% of anything, even when given in the correct doses they are closer to 80% (and apparently a whole heck of a lot people underdose their horse as their weight estimates are wrong, and wormer ends up in places other than the horses stomach) and due to the effects on the insides, they will poop out more than during a normal 'poop'. Wormers reduce, not eliminate worms. Our vets advice (which ensured far lower worm counts) was to worm, keep stabled, then turn into a new sun-harrowed field.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true - wormers kill all the target parasites so there is absolutely no need to stable the horse afterwards, the exception being if the wormer's effect on soil microbes is insufficiently researched, in which case the manufacturers may say 'Keep 'em in' to absolve themselves from any responsibility.

So worming and turning out is fine - in fact better for the horse if it's used to going out.
S

ETA: Sometimes they advise horses new to a yard to be wormed and kept in for 48hrs, but this is so the worms the horse has aren't passed in the dung BEFORE the wormer takes action (it can take 48hrs to get through the system).

 

[emma69]

Not the case. At 5mg / kg Fenbendazole (Panacur) is only around 83% effective. Ivermectin (Eqvalan, etc) varies depending on form (tablet, paste, injection) as well as dosage, but ranges between 80s% and 99-100% depending on the worm, it isn't 99-100% on all worm types. All the wormers are classed as 'effective' but this does not mean 100% effective, just effective at reducing worm count.

 

[Shilasdair]

[ QUOTE ]
Not the case. At 5mg / kg Fenbendazole (Panacur) is only around 83% effective. Ivermectin (Eqvalan, etc) varies depending on form (tablet, paste, injection) as well as dosage, but ranges between 80s% and 99-100% depending on the worm, it isn't 99-100% on all worm types. All the wormers are classed as 'effective' but this does not mean 100% effective, just effective at reducing worm count.

[/ QUOTE ]

A little science is a dangerous thing, lol. I won't point out the obvious shortcomings regarding your percentages above, instead let's return the debate to normal terms.

You had best advise all the vets who are labouring under the delusion that horses don't need to be kept in then....including HHO forum member Star

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4180134/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1

And this vet:

Busting horse worming myths

Debbie Archer MRCVS, University of Liverpool

15 February, 2008

Horses should be kept in for 24 hours after worming

Wormers kill susceptible parasites in the horse's gastrointestinal tract. Those passed in the faeces are dead and cannot infect the horse. There is no reason to keep horses stabled for 24 hours after worming. In fact, keeping in horses that are used to being turned out increases the risk of colic.

S

 

[ecrozier]

OP - I'd def move. We had a similar experience at previous yard where the extremely DIY (ie we had to mend our own fences if they broke!) YO seemed to want to impose a ridiculous number of rules, some of which made sense, but the rules would change on an almost weekly basis - eg yard was over 18s only, until they needed to fill a stable, then was over 16s only, then another family wnated livery, so became 'under 16s must be supervised' - not that any of us had an issue with teenagers, but that is an example of how many rules changed - that was all over the space of about a month!
Anyway, we moved, and have not regretted it for even one second. Still quite 'DIY' but this YO doesn't make rules for the sake of it and is always prepared to listen to opinions and common sense!
We wrote a letter when we left last place explaining why and the best sentance we used was that as a horse owner, we expected to either rent a stable/field and look after ourselves OR be on a DIY livery service, and that we didn't feel like there was a clear distinction between the two!

 

[emma69]

I took those percentages from government drug information and statistics websites, so maybe you should take up your views on shortcomings with those agencies. As I stated before, the information I was given was by a very well respected horse vet, and his advice certainly worked on our horses. I have no doubt that there are differing opinions out there, there are on most things.

 

[Shilasdair]

[ QUOTE ]
I took those percentages from government drug information and statistics websites, so maybe you should take up your views on shortcomings with those agencies. As I stated before, the information I was given was by a very well respected horse vet, and his advice certainly worked on our horses. I have no doubt that there are differing opinions out there, there are on most things.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, don't worry, taking percentages out of context is an easy mistake to make, I'm sure they make sense on the government website (maybe you could provide a link?).
For future reference, you might want to remember to specify what parasites you are claiming the % effectiveness against, and what exactly you mean by 'reducing worm count'.
Who was your equine vet that gave you this advice, incidentally?
S

 

[Slinkyunicorn]

If you are worried that your wormer is not 100% effective the best thing to do is to ensure regular poo picking. We proved it on our yard - one livery refused to poo pick and would just have her paddock harrowed - some of us poo pick daily and others just once/twice a week. When the YO carried out annual worm counts (all on the same worming programme taken at same time etc) those of us who poo picked daily had zero worm counts, those who did 1 or 2 a week had low worm counts and the one who didn't want to poo pick (was an RI by the way) had a medium to high count. All our fields are also grazed by sheep which should help with the worm burden.

 

[Tnavas]

This is my own horse - regular worming program with broad spectrum wormer.
Owned horse for many years - nice plump horse - moved him to a friends to graze while back in UK for a month so that he could be looked after. Horse lost some condition which I put down to being on not so good grazing.

Returned him to my grazing and continued with regular worming program. Horse lost more weight, on good grazing and hard fed. Given an extra worm dose - improved a little but didn't go back to original weight. Had bloods done - showed V high worm infestation. Vet advised to bomb drench him with Broad Spectrum wormer - worm weekly for three weeks. Horse immediately improved and returned to former self.

This shows that despite regular worming the horse can develop very high levels of parasites especially if exposed to high risk pasture (friends place). Before everyone screams resistance - the horse was bomb drenched with the same wormers as normally used and continued to be wormed with them. I don't switch wormers as is advised but stick with one - I make sure that they all get more rather than less. My horses are plump, shiny and healthy, haven't had the vet out for anything other than routine matters for over 12 years.

 

[Cazzah]

I have no problem with the yard having a worming programme although I do have reservations about over-worming and would prefer they did worm counts before insisting we put endless chemicals into our horses.....what I do have a problem with is the fact that they have not spoken to anyone and just sent a letter which states that if it isn't done then they will administer it. My horse is on DIY because I choose to look after him and not pay for anyone else to do so.

I think its all a culmination of things with the YO ranting at my friend and various other incidents but I am really fed up. Have been to look at another yard tonight but its over 15 miles away and with working full time that's a long trip twice a day....will be keeping looking though....

 

[RomanyMayday]

if its expensive for the area, then you could probs find some where better for cheaper!