Girthiness

[Ceriann]

I know this has been done to death and the causes are endless but if anyone has any ideas I haven’t considered I would be grateful. Mare owned for 3 and a half years - was not girthy when I got her. She suffered an injury 18 months ago and first sign of girthiness was when she decided she hated the back massage pad I bought to use during box rest. On bringing back to work I had work hard to get her ok with saddle pads and saddle etc. Her girthiness has continued since - it improves at times (she might just be a little niggly). She is 100% recovered from her injury (I had her scanned a couple of weeks ago). She has had a full scintigraphy - no back or neck issues, she’s been scoped (no ulcers), Saddle is regularly checked (she’s due out next week - she’s got worse in last week or so, so best to check) by a reputable saddler - saddle fitting doesn’t solve the issue either. I’ve tried different girths - she’s worse with some but none solve the issue. I’ve got her on oestress in case it’s hormonal. Vet says crack on with her and it might just be how she is but I can’t accept that. She objects as follows - saddle going on, girth going on, subsequent tightening of girth gets less of a reaction unless she’s going through a bad patch, she’s worse on right side, she never reacts to girth tightening mounted. She’s going through a bad patch now (she’s reacting more by mouthing at me) and I really do want to resolve it. Anyone any ideas?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Could it be hind gut ulcers? My mare showed very similar symptoms, even down to resenting the massage pad. We were convinced it was foregut ulcers, but she scoped clear.

Vet suggested that I trial her on Succeed supplement (for hind gut ulcers), and hey presto, I have a much more comfortable horse. There is no reliable test for HGA in a live horse, only after PM. Succeed is spendy, but it is not a POM. I get mine from VioVet. It won’t hurt her if she doesn’t have them.

 

[sbloom]

I would want to be clear what steps you'd worked through on the saddle, just because a fitter says it fits doesn't always mean the horse likes it, it's not even about the fit being incorrect, but trying something else very different, shifting pressure points, giving more space to move, fitting with a sheepskin etc are all worth trying to see if she's better. Doesn't mean that is the solution but it does show it's at least in part saddle related.

 

[Ceriann]

I will try anything, especially things that have worked with similar issues. She’s a lovely mare so it’s just not her to be grumpy. Will take a look - thank you.

 

[Ceriann]

I would want to be clear what steps you'd worked through on the saddle, just because a fitter says it fits doesn't always mean the horse likes it, it's not even about the fit being incorrect, but trying something else very different, shifting pressure points, giving more space to move, fitting with a sheepskin etc are all worth trying to see if she's better. Doesn't mean that is the solution but it does show it's at least in part saddle related.

She’s got a gp and dressage saddle both of which bought for her and used for at least 12 months with no issues (pre-injury). I have changed saddler as wasn’t happy first one was taking time to assess at checks. New saddler is very thorough - measures etc pre working on the saddle and spends time getting the fit right, checks the stirrup holders etc and we work her in both saddles in all gaits. She’s out next week to do a check and we will look at all options again. Should add different pads and girth sleeves don’t make a difference.

 

[AandK]

Physio? Could be as simple as being tight in the muscles that the girth sits on.

 

[vhf]

Oddly, I have one who is occasionally girthy for no clear reason, and that began after a horrendous accident. It started when under intensive treatment for six weeks; whenever two people approached her at the same time, snapping and cow-kicking etc. It became whenever anyone did anything much at shoulder or further back, and subsided to just the girth, occasionally something else if she's disturbed for any reason. "Psychological rehab" over several months made more difference than anything physical anyone came up with. 99.9% of the time she's the sweetest, most loving "people-y" horse imaginable.
Sadly she still frequently has other medical stuff going on (she's a disaster zone!) and I think it's just become a weird occasional habit with her now as there's been nothing as painful or invasive as that first time. I did discover she can't stand fake dead sheep touching her skin, and she seems to especially like the airflow non-slip numnah I got purely because she needed a numnah and it was the only one in the shop...

 

[TotalMadgeness]

Interesting! My horse started being a bit girthy a few years back and despite all efforts we can't pin down exactly why. To cut a long story short he's on Acid Ease at the moment to see if that helps. I also feed him before exercise a few handfuls of timothy haylage (he's on restricted grazing due to weight). He's mainly girthy on the right side but doesn't react when girth being tightened when I'm on board. He can suffer from anxiety so we keep everything as calm as possible with a strict routine. Saddler is out tomorrow to check his saddle again too.

 

[Maesto's Girl]

What girth do you use? I find my mare (no issues - has always disliked her girth being done up!) is massively sensitive to what girth I use. I must have tried about 20! Worth a go if all the medical/body checks are fine

 

[Kat]

I would definitely have a read up on hind gut ulcers and try to get her diet in line with recommendations for an ulcer friendly diet. Try a hind gut ulcer supplement like Rite Trac or succeed too and see if you notice a difference.

The other thing to discuss with the vet would be her ovaries.

 

[Ceriann]

Thanks everyone - it’s comforting to know I’m not the only one with a tricky girthing issue! Taking some of the comments - she has regular physio which doesn’t change her girthiness. Physio is aware. Girths - tried lots. Anatomical, leather, string, padded, elastic, no elastic - the string girth seemed to help on her gp when I bought it but it doesn’t help now. I’ve changed to a prolite a week ago on her dressage saddle - seemed to help instantly but she was worse yesterday. Her diet is very simple - grass, hay and tiny bit of thunderbrooks chaff to carry supplements. She might be worse summer if I think about it so grass or seasons is a possibility - I will try gut support as it’s relatively easy to try. On it being psychological - when I rehabbed her I spent ages training her with the saddle pad, saddle etc. It’s very frustrating.

 

[Henry02]

Have you tried getting a chiro/osteo to look at her? They often pick up on stuff and physio doesn’t (and visa versa). Rob Jackson could also be worth a punt - he picked problems up on my horse that a “conventional” practitioner didn’t.

apart from that, the hind gut ulcers could be an issue... worth looking into and maybe trying suceed. As others have said if it’s not hind gut it won’t do her any harm.

how well has she done with being desensitised to saddle cloth etc? Look up videos on you tube of the likes of Warwick Schiller, Jason Webb etc doing it. Real eye opener for the way I now deal with my horses.

 

[Zoe67]

My horse used to be very girthy, he was scoped and showed no sign of ulcers.. however somebody mentioned that scopes don't always show hind gut ulcers. He was treated for ulcers and is now on a supplement daily and hasn't been girthy since! (Girthiness wasn't the only issue however, he was clearly very sore somewhere in his tummy as he got very cross when I put my leg on)

 

[sbloom]

I would want to be trying a different saddle, perhaps padded up (though I prefer sheepskin to Prolite), but the saddle must be fitted to accommodate it, putting one under a saddle that fits with a cotton pad will tip it back and cause uneven pressure. Like I say it's not about ticking the technically correct box in cases like these, it's about looking at other solutions. Tough conversation because it might mean a different saddle is needed so as fitters we tend to focus on trying to fix the current saddle. Not saying this will be the solution but if she goes happier in something else it's a clue that there's something she dislikes about the current setup.

Ulcers are absolutely a strong possibility by the sound of it. Hind gut ulcers supposedly don't actually exist but the work of Equi-biome and others show that there are various quite serious hind gut issues in many of our horses.

 

[Ceriann]

I need to look at all options as its not going away. The prolite girth seems to be helping, the reaction is milder but its early days. I’m not expecting a fluck of the switch solution by now. I have also started her on protexin - i got a tester pack so hopefully good way of seeing if there is a hind gut issue. Also trying different pads and alternating the saddles (gp and dressage) - saddler due next week so will ask for an honest view of both. She didn’t sell me either saddle so not invested/conflicted. I did buy the same dressage saddle used by the old owner (I couldnt afford hers when I bought her), tested and measured at the time and used for 12 months without a quibble (regularly checked too). The effect of the box rest etc on her could mean neither is now the best choice though so I will ask the direct question again given I can’t discount it as an option.

 

[Ceriann]

So 5 days into protexin but also using my gp, with cotton pad and string girth she is better. She still looks when I girth but her whole demeanour is different. Ears forward when pad and saddle go on and girth brought under belly. A little resistance when the girth tightens but a face not the swinging round with mouthing i was getting. I’m writing all this down in a notebook as we’ve got here before and then gone backwards. I will use the dressage saddle (with different pads) for next few days and see how she reacts.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Glad that you’ve seen an improvement. Is that Protexin acid ease? That can help with foregut ulcers, but not hind gut ulcers (been round that loop myself before ending up with Succeed).

But if the Protexin is helping, then obviously stick with it .

 

[Goldenstar]

I would get a ACPAT trained physio to her and if that fails to help as a wild card I would try a Equine Touch person I would advise you to use one of their trainers or at least a level three person .
ET people so a lot of muscle fascia release and that may be what the issue is the fact that it’s worse with some girth’s suggests this .

 

[Ceriann]

Glad that you’ve seen an improvement. Is that Protexin acid ease? That can help with foregut ulcers, but not hind gut ulcers (been round that loop myself before ending up with Succeed).

But if the Protexin is helping, then obviously stick with it .

Protexin gut balancer. It may not be this that’s helping but it can’t do any harm. She’s improved before and taken a few steps back in recent weeks.

 

[Ceriann]

I would get a ACPAT trained physio to her and if that fails to help as a wild card I would try a Equine Touch person I would advise you to use one of their trainers or at least a level three person .
ET people so a lot of muscle fascia release and that may be what the issue is the fact that it’s worse with some girth’s suggests this .

She sees a physio every 8 weeks or so (who’s done CEPT training) - no consistent issues found though admittedly I’ve been focussed on her hinds given injury. I’ll take a look at ACPAT.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Her being worse on the right side does tally with hind gut ulcers, as do many of her other symptoms. My mare had a ‘weak’ right hind, although she was out competing and doing well inc at dressage. Keep the hind gut issue in mind if she regresses.

 

[Ceriann]

Her being worse on the right side does tally with hind gut ulcers, as do many of her other symptoms. My mare had a ‘weak’ right hind, although she was out competing and doing well inc at dressage. Keep the hind gut issue in mind if she regresses.

This is why I’m trying the Protexin gut balancer - tester/30 day pot as it was the only thing I could buy immediately. If she improves and depending how much she improves i’ll try others - succeed, pharmatrac, equishure - to if anything in particular suits. At her very worst she could give me the ears down look just using a brush on certain sections of her right flank. Im amazed by how many people say its just a nare thing or that theirs does the same but they accept it. The idea she is so unhappy she might threaten to bite me (she is the loveliest person) isn’t something i’m happy to accept as normal. We’ll plough on.

 

[Goldenstar]

I really would consider trying something out of the box like equine touch .
its a management type answer not a cure but if it makes her feel better it’s worth it .

I would also try a Bute trial if you have not and also
one of regumate , separately of course

 

[Ceriann]

I really would consider trying something out of the box like equine touch .
its a management type answer not a cure but if it makes her feel better it’s worth it .

I would also try a Bute trial if you have not and also
one of regumate , separately of course

I looked at ETs and will look at this once saddler been. Also contemplating one of the back vets - not had an osteo to her so might be worth a try. Tom Beech isn’t that far from us so might look to get a session with him. I took her for a walk yesterday in hand - I do it every now and again but tried both saddles (no pad) on her multiple times and she barely looked. All being noted! None of the things I’m doing will be anything but helpful anyway so on I go with the investigations.

 

[Ceriann]

Saddler came last week - mares girthiness was already improving with a combo of using GP saddle, thin cotton pad, string girth and supplementing with protexin. Which of these factors is the key isn't 100% clear but saddler did need to do some work to balance flocking on the dressage saddle. I’ve continued to use GP sincd and she’s pretty close to being good to tack up. Physio came today and tightness etc worked on (some tightness in lower back) so I will now try reintroducing the dressage saddle and see if this is the issue (and whether just the addressed balance or the saddle itself). Not completely discounting protexin helping either! So much easier if they could just talk!