Give and retake inside rein

[SEL]

I'd given up expecting the post office to deliver my December e-riders test sheets, but a welcome package finally turned up today.

Good scores but I am definitely not getting anything involving 'give and retake' in either walk or trot. I've had feedback before that it was a bit brief so I tried to be a lot more obvious this time and got exactly the same feedback.

Do you need to do a very obvious forward movement with the hand? If it says give and retake the inside rein is that one move or do you do it multiple times? (half 10m circle)

Pony off games right now so can't pop him out for a lesson and lorry will be off games soon too so we might be doing video dressage for a while.

 

[RachelFerd]

really big obvious forward movement with the hand showing clear loop in the reins for multiple strides. It's just one move - but sustained for long enough that the judge will definitely see it

 

[Tiddlypom]

For give and retake the reins I keep hold of the reins but offer both hands forward a good way, maybe 12” or so, for two or three strides, with the reins in loops. I expect the horse to maintain the rhythm.

It’s something I do a lot in regular schooling sessions. It’s a smooth action and retake of the contact.

 

[Rowreach]

I'd give and retake over the course of three strides, hands forward towards the bit, hold, retake. It does need to be obvious but smooth, total release of contact to prove that the horse is carrying himself.

 

[Cortez]

Yes, push both hands (or the inside hand for that movement) forwards to give a loop in the reins - even better if the horse takes the rein down (NOT falls on its head!), and count 1-2-3-4 (or however many: at least 3) before smoothly retaking the rein.

 

[SEL]

Thank you, thank you

The advantage of videoing is I can review and it's nowhere near as obvious as I thought. I didn't give as much as I should reading your replies and should have held it for longer.

Once he's sound I'm on a mission to practice that and nail that test.

Now if only I'd asked you lot earlier we might have won that class

 

[humblepie]

Make sure you are giving forward and not upwards with the contact still there. I think it’s quite easy to think you are giving when you’re not. I don’t mean you personally but from writing for judges.

 

[Skib]

I post this as a novice adult who rode their first dressage test mystified by this. I was told (and the experts here may differ) that the give and take of the reins is to demonstrate that the horse is in self carriage, that is, moving from the back legs and supporting its own head and neck, not leaning on the rein. So it is wise to create some surplus energy just before the give and take.

 

[Rowreach]

I post this as a novice adult who rode their first dressage test mystified by this. I was told (and the experts here may differ) that the give and take of the reins is to demonstrate that the horse is in self carriage, that is, moving from the back legs and supporting its own head and neck, not leaning on the rein. So it is wise to create some surplus energy just before the give and take.

I'd be tending towards a rebalance (half halt) before the movement.

 

[Carrottom]

I totally agree with videoing, you think you are giving a release but it often doesn't look so.

 

[SEL]

I totally agree with videoing, you think you are giving a release but it often doesn't look so.

Absolutely - I was surprised to get exactly the same feedback on this test as I had when I rode it "live" last summer. I thought I'd made a real effort with the release but it was a bit pathetic when I watched it again. No more of a give than he'd get if I was about to give him a neck scratch for being good.

Everything else on the sheets I was nodding at, but I was convinced I'd done a better job on that move.

 

[Britestar]

You need a clear loop in the rein. Three strides and then retake.

Having judged many tests you would be amazed how few get it right.

 

[GoldenWillow]

Absolutely - I was surprised to get exactly the same feedback on this test as I had when I rode it "live" last summer. I thought I'd made a real effort with the release but it was a bit pathetic when I watched it again. No more of a give than he'd get if I was about to give him a neck scratch for being good.

Everything else on the sheets I was nodding at, but I was convinced I'd done a better job on that move.

I've had exactly the same, thought I was doing a decent release, got sheet back and watched video that had been taken. It was the most pathetic release! Played about at home videoing and it took a while to realise just how exaggerated it had to be to show correctly. I did quite a few that I felt I had done correctly to see that they were still a bit pathetic.

 

[nikicb]

The other thing to remember is to push your hands forwards. As a writer, it's quite common to see people lift their hands, but in an arc if that makes sense, so the reins remain the same length. I think about pushing my hands towards my horse's eyes, but I guess that might differ depending on horse/rider conformation.

 

[Carrottom]

I have really short arms so actually have to tip forward slightly to get a loop in the rein.

 

[SEL]

The other thing to remember is to push your hands forwards. As a writer, it's quite common to see people lift their hands, but in an arc if that makes sense, so the reins remain the same length. I think about pushing my hands towards my horse's eyes, but I guess that might differ depending on horse/rider conformation.

I need to really over exaggerate the move. I was playing about this morning (he's currently in walk work after tweaking his leg) and I really had to think baggy rein otherwise it just looked like a bit of a forward hand position.

E-riders has been great for identifying my schooling shortfalls [plenty of them apparently]

 

[nikicb]

I need to really over exaggerate the move. I was playing about this morning (he's currently in walk work after tweaking his leg) and I really had to think baggy rein otherwise it just looked like a bit of a forward hand position.

E-riders has been great for identifying my schooling shortfalls [plenty of them apparently]

Yes, it always feels much slower when you are riding it than it does when you are watching it, so definitely give the judges plenty of opportunity to see that you have achieved the G&R. Videoing yourself helps - I know I am my own worse critic. Plus watch some well marked tests on YouTube if you can find them.

 

[sugarpony]

I’ve always been taught to count it out slowly one smooth move: give - hold - hold - retake. Have yet to be marked down for it since following that advice

On a slight tangent, does anyone know if you’d be marked down for a horse dropping into a stretchy/long and low trot as you give the reins? It’s definitely not falling on his head, it’s just that we’ve been really working on developing the stretch and now every time I give the reins he thinks that’s what I’m asking for!

 

[tristars]

i often ride half a circle with the inside rein loose, inside hand forwards, to prove the horse is taking the outside rein while maintaining the inside bend

on the straight i give with both hands forwards to a distinct loop in both reins, whilst not leaning forwards and upsetting the balance as the horse should not fall on the forehand or change posture during the give and retake of the reins, which is why we do the movement , to prove the horse can continue to work in the same frame and is not depending on the rider and reins to hold them up

if coming off the short side across the diagonal use the corner to set the horse up really well and get it together and powered up, then start the diagonal with a few very straight strides then give and retake when ready

get someone to watch or video you and decide how it can be made clear to the judge, and experiment with how many strides the horse can maintain the posture easily to look good

 

[j1ffy]

I’ve always been taught to count it out slowly one smooth move: give - hold - hold - retake. Have yet to be marked down for it since following that advice

On a slight tangent, does anyone know if you’d be marked down for a horse dropping into a stretchy/long and low trot as you give the reins? It’s definitely not falling on his head, it’s just that we’ve been really working on developing the stretch and now every time I give the reins he thinks that’s what I’m asking for!

The movement is designed to demonstrate self carriage and show you're not holding your horse up / in a frame. Long and low should involve the horse following the bit down and forwards or deep depending on what you're asking for rather than giving the contact away.

I've always found horses understand the G&R and don't confuse it with long / low / stretching work, and many will have a better frame afterwards - as long as you keep yourself in a good position and your horse is on your seat rather than your hands it should be fine. I tend to do a few mini-G&Rs ahead of the movement to make sure the horse is carrying himself.

 

[Rumtytum]

I need to really over exaggerate the move. I was playing about this morning (he's currently in walk work after tweaking his leg) and I really had to think baggy rein otherwise it just looked like a bit of a forward hand position.

E-riders has been great for identifying my schooling shortfalls [plenty of them apparently]

Same here with the need to exaggerate!
I used to do rl dressage tests at my riding school but when it became too difficult to book ‘my’ rs horse for the test time I switched to ERiders and have been very pleased with them.

 

[rubyroo_0812]

I'd given up expecting the post office to deliver my December e-riders test sheets, but a welcome package finally turned up today.

Good scores but I am definitely not getting anything involving 'give and retake' in either walk or trot. I've had feedback before that it was a bit brief so I tried to be a lot more obvious this time and got exactly the same feedback.

Do you need to do a very obvious forward movement with the hand? If it says give and retake the inside rein is that one move or do you do it multiple times? (half 10m circle)

Pony off games right now so can't pop him out for a lesson and lorry will be off games soon too so we might be doing video dressage for a while.

Make it really really obvious, for multiple stides. And wear contrasting gloves to your pony!

 

[Lois Lame]

Yes, push both hands (or the inside hand for that movement) forwards to give a loop in the reins - even better if the horse takes the rein down (NOT falls on its head!), and count 1-2-3-4 (or however many: at least 3) before smoothly retaking the rein.

Yes, from what I understand, this movement is to test self-carriage. And the horse who is in self-carriage will, for a few strides, keep his head where it is. But he should, as you point out, want to seek the contact of the bit. So he will stretch down for it if he has long enough to do so (if the reins are in loops for long enough). (Which I suppose in a test they aren't.

Very interesting discussion. I should nip in here more often.

 

[Lois Lame]

Yes, it always feels much slower when you are riding it than it does when you are watching it, so definitely give the judges plenty of opportunity to see that you have achieved the G&R. Videoing yourself helps - I know I am my own worse critic. Plus watch some well marked tests on YouTube if you can find them.

That's really interesting. I've never ridden in a dressage test (or done any competing at all because I would be the laughing stock) but have pencilled/written for dressage judges in the past. And the test zooms by. It never occurred to me that out there in the arena, time would slow down like it does for me when things go pear-shaped

 

[SEL]

Happy - got a 'good clear release' this time. I do need to feel like I'm chucking my hand up towards his ear it seems.

Got docked 1/2 mark for the shape of the 2nd circle but that was deserved.....

Not our best test because he's had time off post injury and lost topline, but onwards and upwards.