Give me hope - awkward baby jumping

[RachelFerd]

Can anyone tell me a lovely story about how they've taught a young horse to jump and it has gone from ugly duckling to superstar sports horse please?!

Although I well know that young horses are often 'two steps forward, one step back' in the training process, I have to say I was feeling a bit despondent on Saturday after young horse repeatedly cantered straight through a small (60cm?) upright with very little awareness that jumping it could even be an option! He's been going fairly well in little short sessions of popping through tiny trot pole -> cross pole -> spread type exercises... a little ungainly, nothing too horrendous. But this Saturday I did despair at his failure and was left wondering if his future as an eventer is in question It's not even that he's insanely brave, because he attempted to test out stop/run-past before settling on ploughing through as the best technique...!

I have readjusted my expectations and am going to go back and introduce some free jumping (which we haven't done) re-do some lunge jumping (of which he's only done a tiddly bit) and then go back over the trot poles -> cross lessons. Also planning to go and find some tiddly logs and other solid obstacles to go and trot over to make sure that up-and-over not through is confirmed in his mind!

I've taught lots of ex-racehorses to jump (some from the flat from scratch, and others as a re-education from hurdling) and whilst there's been all sorts of dodgy jumping, I haven't had a repeat ploughing incident like this one. If they've ploughed, they've generally made a big effort the next time. This horse is bred to jump, so I did think there'd be more of a natural inclination perhaps... and he has an exceptionally nice, powerful canter that is fairly well balanced for such a green horse too... I know he needs lots of time, lots of strengthening up, lots of seeing the world. I'm sure we'll get there... I hope...!!

Any lovely stories about how others have taught horses and overcome initial poor technique would be much appreciated at this point of me thinking "what on earth have I got here..." thank you!

 

[ownedbyaconnie]

You are way more of a serious jumper/rider than me but I have taken my pony from unbalanced and green (as was I) to what I hope is slightly less unbalanced and green ? for me it was really getting the flatwork. Getting her straight, an adjustable canter etc. Lots of grids to help her work out what her feet were doing. Kept everything small until recently (partly because I am a wuss) but I really believe in getting the technique and asking more difficult questions at a lower height and getting it right before moving up.

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The first two are obviously the older videos!

 

[DabDab]

I wouldn't say it is a story of glittering success yet, but I was fairly convinced when my mare was age 5, that I would never jump her from on board. She used to crash through everything, proper demolition derby style. Not just eminently kickable jump poles either, she would quite merrily clatter into solid fencing etc.

With no particular thought to improvement or anything, I carried on loose jumping her a couple of times a month just to give her a bit of variety. She continued merrily knocking 50-70% of fences for a while and then she just gradually stopped hitting them. She's rising 7 now, and I jump her while riding and she hasn't hit a single thing in months. No idea why, it makes no logical sense to me, it was like she just grew a desire not to hit them

She was similar to yours in that the ploughing through wasn't bravery I don't think. It was like she was worried about them and then to deal with that she just metaphorically stuck her fingers in her ears and crashed through.

 

[TheMule]

Put the jump up! I think it can be really hard for them to judge and understand when it's tiny- use a heavy pole and a filler under it, always with a trot or canter pole to help on the way in and get him up in the air over something that needs a bit more respect

 

[eggs]

One of my homebreds looked a completely talent free zone over small fences but came into himself once the jumps got up to around 1 metre.

 

[LEC]

Can anyone tell me a lovely story about how they've taught a young horse to jump and it has gone from ugly duckling to superstar sports horse please?!

Although I well know that young horses are often 'two steps forward, one step back' in the training process, I have to say I was feeling a bit despondent on Saturday after young horse repeatedly cantered straight through a small (60cm?) upright with very little awareness that jumping it could even be an option! He's been going fairly well in little short sessions of popping through tiny trot pole -> cross pole -> spread type exercises... a little ungainly, nothing too horrendous. But this Saturday I did despair at his failure and was left wondering if his future as an eventer is in question It's not even that he's insanely brave, because he attempted to test out stop/run-past before settling on ploughing through as the best technique...!

I have readjusted my expectations and am going to go back and introduce some free jumping (which we haven't done) re-do some lunge jumping (of which he's only done a tiddly bit) and then go back over the trot poles -> cross lessons. Also planning to go and find some tiddly logs and other solid obstacles to go and trot over to make sure that up-and-over not through is confirmed in his mind!

I've taught lots of ex-racehorses to jump (some from the flat from scratch, and others as a re-education from hurdling) and whilst there's been all sorts of dodgy jumping, I haven't had a repeat ploughing incident like this one. If they've ploughed, they've generally made a big effort the next time. This horse is bred to jump, so I did think there'd be more of a natural inclination perhaps... and he has an exceptionally nice, powerful canter that is fairly well balanced for such a green horse too... I know he needs lots of time, lots of strengthening up, lots of seeing the world. I'm sure we'll get there... I hope...!!

Any lovely stories about how others have taught horses and overcome initial poor technique would be much appreciated at this point of me thinking "what on earth have I got here..." thank you!

I actually tend to up the technicality, pretty much if they can trot, they can do baby grids and bounces. I would be looking to improve the co-ordination and footwork. It also means you can put a bigger fence up on a grid to get them trying harder.

I would also go xc schooling to see if solid made a difference - it did with one of mine. I find sometimes the flow of xc helps them more and more space.

I would be using place pole to upright as well to give them the best chance especially in trot. I would also start using V poles for straightness and again to help them work the distances with their body. Tramlines will help with straightness and the running out.

 

[RachelFerd]

Put the jump up! I think it can be really hard for them to judge and understand when it's tiny- use a heavy pole and a filler under it, always with a trot or canter pole to help on the way in and get him up in the air over something that needs a bit more respect

You know... I wouldn't usually hesitate to put them up, but i'm just not getting the vibe that he understand the concept of the ask. And I'm erring on the side of time and caution right now... but will pop them up loose with the hope that without me on his back he figures this one out for himself a bit more.

I actually tend to up the technicality instead and pretty much if they can trot, they can do baby grids and bounces. I would be looking to improve the co-ordination and footwork. It also means you can put a bigger fence up on a grid to get them trying harder.

I was thinking bounces. Perhaps loose initially, given my lack of faith in his ability to save himself right now. Specifically, what he isn't doing, is even with a trot placing pole, he isn't putting both back legs down and pushing off. He's putting one down, letting the next continue as per a canter stride, and stepping that second leg right up under the jump- so he can't take off properly. Now, maybe a decent size fence would help that - but i'm just not feeling it. And we do have time on our side...

Just such a contrast getting on the older lad whose understanding of foot placement and the exact dimensions of anything I ask him to jump is so, so accurate. And I'd like to claim I taught him that, but I don't think I need - I think he has a measuring tape in his head

 

[ycbm]

At four and five, the horse in my avatar was lovingly known as "demolition Dan" for his show jumping performance. All he needed was age, strength and practice.
.

 

[ycbm]

One of my homebreds looked a completely talent free zone over small fences but came into himself once the jumps got up to around 1 metre.

I had one like this as well, he simply wasn't interested in jumping anything less that a metre. At BE90 he was frightening over fixed fences. At BE100 he was safe. At BE Novice he flew.

When I sold him I warned the buyer about it and he rang me after a while laughing about it, so it wasn't just me.
.

 

[MissTyc]

I trained a little TB who didn't even seem to SEE the poles (no matter the height) for the first few months of jumping. Then after bashing her legs a few too many times, she started to half heartedly stumble over them (age 5). She had the winter off and seems to have come back as a new model, progressing to 1m courses with apparent total ease. I really think she needed to sleep on it all for a few months. She never had an reticent attitude - always happy to stumble about between the wings, but she just didn't seem to understand SHE needed to, you know, jump. Now she gets it!

 

[RachelFerd]

I trained a little TB who didn't even seem to SEE the poles (no matter the height) for the first few months of jumping. Then after bashing her legs a few too many times, she started to half heartedly stumble over them (age 5). She had the winter off and seems to have come back as a new model, progressing to 1m courses with apparent total ease. I really think she needed to sleep on it all for a few months. She never had an reticent attitude - always happy to stumble about between the wings, but she just didn't seem to understand SHE needed to, you know, jump. Now she gets it!

That's the type of story I need I like the idea that she just needed a good bit of time to have a think

 

[LEC]

You know... I wouldn't usually hesitate to put them up, but i'm just not getting the vibe that he understand the concept of the ask. And I'm erring on the side of time and caution right now... but will pop them up loose with the hope that without me on his back he figures this one out for himself a bit more.



I was thinking bounces. Perhaps loose initially, given my lack of faith in his ability to save himself right now. Specifically, what he isn't doing, is even with a trot placing pole, he isn't putting both back legs down and pushing off. He's putting one down, letting the next continue as per a canter stride, and stepping that second leg right up under the jump- so he can't take off properly. Now, maybe a decent size fence would help that - but i'm just not feeling it. And we do have time on our side...

Just such a contrast getting on the older lad whose understanding of foot placement and the exact dimensions of anything I ask him to jump is so, so accurate. And I'd like to claim I taught him that, but I don't think I need - I think he has a measuring tape in his head

I do bounces on the lunge but don't do them loose. If you can use square poles? This is teaching you to suck eggs but you must get him doing that hind limb placement properly. So many people ignore it and for me its absolutely essential they have even take off. I have had a lot of crap jumpers and they all have uneven hind take off in common. I did have a unathletic lump of an ID not that long ago who was the worst horse I have seen loose, couldn't even get over poles without scattering them but with repetition and a lot of bounces, footwork drills and poles actually managed to jump round 90cm courses.

 

[MissTyc]

That's the type of story I need I like the idea that she just needed a good bit of time to have a think

I honestly cannot put into words how upset her owner was at the time as the little mare had been bigged up as an "athletic type" but seemed to have about as much jumping skills as a cabbage. Now it's a different story; in fact, I've given her strict instructions not to overface the little horse as it could be very tempting with the way she's going now!

 

[Teaboy]

Yes don’t give up hope. I had one who was literally god awful, if he wasn’t trying to escape out the side he was scrabbling over it taking poles with him, seemed to have absolutely no natural talent or proprioception at all. I took him Xc as a last chance saloon type of situation and he managed to break the back telegraph pole of an oxer by landing on it - said oxer was all of 1ft6 both in height and diameter!!
His one saving grace was that he absolutely loved water! After that I gave him 6 months off and when he came back in he was absolutely insane to jump, jumped like a stag, he was truly amazing, cleared most things by 2ft and continued to do so throughout his career, was brave as an ox and jumped upto inter - could have done more if it weren’t for rider.

 

[RachelFerd]

I do bounces on the lunge but don't do them loose. If you can use square poles? This is teaching you to suck eggs but you must get him doing that hind limb placement properly. So many people ignore it and for me its absolutely essential they have even take off. I have had a lot of crap jumpers and they all have uneven hind take off in common. I did have a unathletic lump of an ID not that long ago who was the worst horse I have seen loose, couldn't even get over poles without scattering them but with repetition and a lot of bounces, footwork drills and poles actually managed to jump round 90cm courses.

I'm totally with you re. the hindlegs - it's that horrible guessy feeling when they take of from one.... I'm so lucky that Simon is totally consistent at pushing equally with both, every single time, short or long or whatever!

We don't have square poles, but we do have SUPER heavy wooden poles (although, they are already in use, and not yet working). I am no stranger to doing endless very pole-heavy grid drills... it has just been a long time since I *had* to. Perhaps its the surprise that it isn't magically easier to teach a purpose bred event horse to jump than it is a little racing thoroughbred. Or perhaps this is just a reminder to me that thoroughbreds are actually super cool and i should get more of them...

 

[RachelFerd]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/9VfgsWcEAmzAFBqk9

Not sure if that link will work to view glorious hindlimb chaos...

 

[Michen]

Is this the rising 4 year old? Surely maybe just needs a little more time/strength. I remember feeling my 5 year old was really dull to jump, sort of lolloped into the fences and felt uninspiring. He was completely different a year later.

 

[Goldenstar]

I bred a foal from my advanced mare by a performance proven event stallion as a rising four year old we lightly backed her at the end of that we did one session loose jumping I was devastated to say she showed no ability did not cover it .
I turned her away ( that was the plan ) when we restarted her after a while we reached the point when she needed to jump .
From the first morning she was brilliant .

 

[tristar]

i start off loose, with poles on the floor then about a foot off the floor, two lots, jump one stride jump, when they have the hang of actually leaving the ground tidily nothing under 2 ft 6 single jump, loose, but with a ground line and another pole at 2ft and never had a problem, and certainly would not be riding at a jump until competent loose

although we have had horses that would take you into a fence having never seen one before , the sort i like!

 

[maya2008]

My rising 6yo did that at 4. Began to pop random branches out hacking last winter out of her choice and popped 50cm like it was less than nothing a week ago (she is only 13hh, so bigger for her than for a horse!).

Her brother will never make a jumper though - always willing to do whatever asked but still has zero enthusiasm at 6!

I had one jump like superman with her forelegs straight out in front of her at 5yo. It was interesting! Funniest thing was that the others decided to teach her how to do it properly, and I came down to the field one afternoon to find them cantering up to the long grass where I had moved the fence, jumping into the grass, then turning round and jumping out of it. After a few days of this, she started to fold her front legs. They stopped doing it after that!

 

[DabDab]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/9VfgsWcEAmzAFBqk9

Not sure if that link will work to view glorious hindlimb chaos...

Looks fine to me, he's just treating it like a raised pole rather than a jump. Lots of horses do that on small bounces (stride over them like single spaced poles).

Give him a go over something bigger

 

[brighteyes]

You know... I wouldn't usually hesitate to put them up, but i'm just not getting the vibe that he understand the concept of the ask. And I'm erring on the side of time and caution right now... but will pop them up loose with the hope that without me on his back he figures this one out for himself a bit more.



I was thinking bounces. Perhaps loose initially, given my lack of faith in his ability to save himself right now. Specifically, what he isn't doing, is even with a trot placing pole, he isn't putting both back legs down and pushing off. He's putting one down, letting the next continue as per a canter stride, and stepping that second leg right up under the jump- so he can't take off properly. Now, maybe a decent size fence would help that - but i'm just not feeling it. And we do have time on our side...

Just such a contrast getting on the older lad whose understanding of foot placement and the exact dimensions of anything I ask him to jump is so, so accurate. And I'd like to claim I taught him that, but I don't think I need - I think he has a measuring tape in his head

You have answered your own question and given the rationale. If he's adjustable and slow downable, you'll be safe with tiny fixed stuff.

 

[Lyle]

I like to lunge over small fences and natural obstacles first. Mine are all excellent on the ground, so we wander off around the property in a rope halter and 20ft rope. They start off at a walk, small questions like natural banks, drops and ditches. The banks teach them to square up behind. Then, I send them over logs. Just small, 60-80cm height. They can walk/trot/canter. I find the logs helps them really read the jump, and encourages a nice shape. Then I love to free jump them. I make the jump a little spooky so they really watch the fence. Start off with it in a combination so they get nice distances, then send them down cold turkey when they have the hang of jumping nicely. I like my horses to be smart, careful jumpers without needing to be micromanaged. It's up to them to jump the jump, but like any skill, they need practice!

 

[Xmasha]

Stop worrying .. you have a lovely young horse who will get it .
If it helps Frank has popped a few poles going over the tiny 50cm x poles he just coasts over them being ‘economical’ to say the least . Then I popped up a 70cm oxer and he ballooned it. I much prefer them to do just enough in the hope that I could maybe pop on at some point . But no , another one who has a very good jump .
I will pop some photos below to show you what I mean
1st photo tiny cross pole = no effort
2nd photo small oxer = effort
3rd photo - tiny log 1st time out
We took him to somerford farm ride at the weekend and I believe he threw some very good shapes over the roll tops ( he only jumped a few)
I was told that with young horses you get one good jump every now and then . Just wait for it .. it will come

 

[LEC]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/9VfgsWcEAmzAFBqk9

Not sure if that link will work to view glorious hindlimb chaos...

I have a very good jumping mare and she looked a bit rubbish for a while with trotting over little fences. A lot of it was physical as she really struggled to sort out the mechanics and to have the strength. Her canter was very big and she had zero ability to shorten. I dared not to put spreads up as her trajectory was very steep up and down! I actually have some video. Up to this point she had done hardly any jumping and it wasn't very organised or filling the heart with joy! But this is her progression in 2 days going on a camp as a 5yo. As a 4yo jumping was basically a write off as just wasn't capable. Its actually nice to look back and see how far she has come and so quickly.

 

[vhf]

Yup. Took one to a lesson with a decent BS trainer (unusual for shoestring budget me!) as a last ditch attempt before confining him to a dressage career. About 3/4 way through the lesson, and after crashing every jump and breaking a filler he suddenly 'got it' and turned out to be quite special. Another one I sold very green with a warning that unless you said 'hup' he literally didn't, we broke a log once when I forgot. I suggested they do no jumping at all for a while for him to reflect! Ended up taking on hedges bigger than himself out hunting, was a total machine across country. But... did have another one who never got it. Perfect technique and totally honest, just no scope or interest; he went to a dressage/hacking home.

 

[RachelFerd]

I have a very good jumping mare and she looked a bit rubbish for a while with trotting over little fences. A lot of it was physical as she really struggled to sort out the mechanics and to have the strength. Her canter was very big and she had zero ability to shorten. I dared not to put spreads up as her trajectory was very steep up and down! I actually have some video. Up to this point she had done hardly any jumping and it wasn't very organised or filling the heart with joy! But this is her progression in 2 days going on a camp as a 5yo. As a 4yo jumping was basically a write off as just wasn't capable. Its actually nice to look back and see how far she has come and so quickly.

Great video! You can really see the jump starting to come together throughout the training - particularly in the gridwork. So reassuring to know that follows uninspiring 4yo jumping!!

I did note today that his full brother (who is with a very good young event rider) has taken a bit of time to come together, but does look super now as a 6yo. So we have plenty of time... would just love to see a flash of brilliance to keep me reassured though

 

[Goldenstar]

Be patient , be diligent in developing him properly enjoy the journey .

 

[RachelFerd]

If the attachment works... Quick update is that we did some loose jumping today, and it was all starting to look much more coordinated - with a good back end. I can relax again ?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/RA9hPboNqZY8SzVs8

 

[Deleted member 150717]

In have a 3 rising 4yr was really un interested in work and interested in everything apart from what he’s meant to be doing. He hacked out he enjoys hacking but due to not having a school and me wanting to get on with his schooling I used the field. Theres poles so we got him to trot (he’s a standerbred pacer so trotting is a big milestone) using the poles which was the reason for him to trot hes a different horse now interested in what he’s doing so now we are trotting consistently. I added in a jump one day it was such a test we are in a 2 acre field next to a main road it was windy and drizzling (the ground was hard and not slippy). We jumped and he’s surprisingly good!! He was a good back end so if my ex pacer rescue three yr old gypsy horse that was driven can jump I’m sure your horse just needs time good luck he will get there in the end!! X