Giving a horse bute before riding?

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clairel

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Ok, a couple of people have suggested this to me but I am not overly keen, so any thoughts would be appreciated.

Davy had hurt his back in Feb, and has been receiving physio and rehab work ever since. Last week the physio came and said he was 100% normal again and to start uping his work (he was in lunging and hacking work as part of his rehab)
The problem is that he is still doing the things that made me realise he was in pain all those months ago (mainly having a VERY dead contact on the right rein)
He is better in lots of ways, so I suppose the question is should I give him some bute for a few days and ride him to see whether he stops being so heavy in the hand, or should I continue riding him without knowing for sure if he is ok?

ETA- teeth have been done and there are no problems there, but he does get a strange swelling on the cheek of his face at times?!
 
He could still behave like he has back pain because he is expecting it rather than actually having it.

Its very difficult to say. What did he do to his back? Have you asked the vet?

I would sit on him and see how you get on.

When my horse split his tendon, this is what I did and played it by ear.
 
I would ask your vet for advice and I would not give bute and ride unless your vet agrees to it.
 
Ditto Little Donkey. I would not ride after giving bute as it is masking any pain and could make things worse. If your horse stood on something sharp while under the effects of bute the horse would not feel it as much and could lead to other problems.
 
I wouldn't... I don't like to ride any horse which I know to be in pain

get the all clear from the vet first as you may be making things worse.
 
One thing I have learnt in the last few months is don't listen to so called experts all the time...sometimes they are wrong.

If you know your horse well enough you will know when things arn't right...

It sounds like you already know that things arn't quite right regardless of what the physio says.

My mare had an undiagnosed lamness for 3 months ...had an equine vet to see her they did not know why she was lame.They wanted xrays and nerve blocks to diagnose her.

I did my own research and on trial an error I discovered she had laminitis (only extremely mild and not all the classic signs either) everyone on my yard said I was wrong and she did not have lami, i treated her as if she had lami and voila! 10 days later she is sound, ...I knew I was right , all along but I found it not the vet....so basically what I am saying is listen to others but don't forget to listen to yourself as well....you may well be right in your feelings as you know the horse best.
 
A bute trial is a tried and tested method of finding out whether something is pain related or not - chat to your vet about it but there is nothing wrong with doing one and often vets will recommend a bute trial like this to determine whether there is pain to investigate or whether this is a rider/behaviour issue. It is a cheap and cheerful first step to a diagnosis - at least if the bute stops the behaviour you then know there is something wrong to investigate. Of course bute only acts on certain types of pain - for example it won't help if ulcers are the issue, but it is a diagnostic tool which can help narrow down where to look if that makes sense.

I would be perfectly happy to a) ride a horse on bute, and b) do a bute trial like this. Do not forget that it is entirely legal to compete BSJA on about 1 sachet of bute a day - it's less like morphine for horses and more like paracetamol!
 
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A bute trial is a tried and tested method of finding out whether something is pain related or not - chat to your vet about it but there is nothing wrong with doing one and often vets will recommend a bute trial like this to determine whether there is pain to investigate or whether this is a rider/behaviour issue. It is a cheap and cheerful first step to a diagnosis - at least if the bute stops the behaviour you then know there is something wrong to investigate. Of course bute only acts on certain types of pain - for example it won't help if ulcers are the issue, but it is a diagnostic tool which can help narrow down where to look if that makes sense.

I would be perfectly happy to a) ride a horse on bute, and b) do a bute trial like this. Do not forget that it is entirely legal to compete BSJA on about 1 sachet of bute a day - it's less like morphine for horses and more like paracetamol!

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Same as Spottedcat!

I had to ride my horse, who was in pain, on bute every day for 8 weeks. She had adhesions following tendon sheath surgery and riding her was the only way to break down the adhesions. As it hurt, she had to have pain relief.

Obviously this was done with the vet's recommendation.

I have also bute tested my mare, again on vet's suggestion, to see if it stopped her dragging her toes. It didn't.

The only thing I will say is that she was more "gobby" when on bute and quite fussy in the mouth. I expect the bute affects the mouth too, with it taken orally.
 
I have been riding my horse on bute for the past 4 years! On vets advice, mind you we dont do a lot, but he is arthritic and has navicular and advice is to keep him moving.
 
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A bute trial is a tried and tested method of finding out whether something is pain related or not - chat to your vet about it but there is nothing wrong with doing one and often vets will recommend a bute trial like this to determine whether there is pain to investigate or whether this is a rider/behaviour issue. It is a cheap and cheerful first step to a diagnosis - at least if the bute stops the behaviour you then know there is something wrong to investigate. Of course bute only acts on certain types of pain - for example it won't help if ulcers are the issue, but it is a diagnostic tool which can help narrow down where to look if that makes sense.

I would be perfectly happy to a) ride a horse on bute, and b) do a bute trial like this. Do not forget that it is entirely legal to compete BSJA on about 1 sachet of bute a day - it's less like morphine for horses and more like paracetamol!

[/ QUOTE ]

Same as Spottedcat!

I had to ride my horse, who was in pain, on bute every day for 8 weeks. She had adhesions following tendon sheath surgery and riding her was the only way to break down the adhesions. As it hurt, she had to have pain relief.

Obviously this was done with the vet's recommendation.

I have also bute tested my mare, again on vet's suggestion, to see if it stopped her dragging her toes. It didn't.

The only thing I will say is that she was more "gobby" when on bute and quite fussy in the mouth. I expect the bute affects the mouth too, with it taken orally.

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I am sorry I don't agree........just because something is done in the main.......dosen't make it right.

After all they gave thalidamide to pregnant women saying all is fine it's tried and tested........turns out that wasn't the right thing to do after all.

I know it's slightly different but just because someone says it's ok it dosen't make it right...the so called experts can and do get it wrong.

I am sorry if you have to give a horse painkillers before you ride it then it is IMO fundamentally wrong whether accepted or not.

You would not do it to a human so why do it to a horse?

Maybe a simplstic approach but a moral one at least.
 
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I am sorry I don't agree........just because something is done in the main.......dosen't make it right.

After all they gave thalidamide to pregnant women saying all is fine it's tried and tested........turns out that wasn't the right thing to do after all.

I know it's slightly different but just because someone says it's ok it dosen't make it right...the so called experts can and do get it wrong.

I am sorry if you have to give a horse painkillers before you ride it then it is IMO fundamentally wrong whether accepted or not.

You would not do it to a human so why do it to a horse?

Maybe a simplstic approach but a moral one at least.

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That is a ridiculous comparison to make - if we were advocating using an untested drug (thalidomide was not tested on pregnant animals before being released for human use) then maybe it would stack up, but we are not.

We are suggesting using something which is the equivalent of paracetamol - lets say you have a chronically arthritic horse, who on one sachet of bute/danilon a day is perfectly happy and stays sound because they can keep moving. Would you advocate letting it live in pain or PTS just because it needs the equivalent of an ibuprofen a day?! You are being overly idealistic and sentimental IMO.
 
What utter tosh!!!

A low level of bute would not mask something seriously wrong, it would however alleviate low level discomfort in some conditions that would help a horse to lead a more active and fulfilling life. Keeping a horse working can sometimes be the best course of action.

And comparing bute to thallidomide is utter madness. Bute is more like a paracetamol!

Back to OP, what you have suggested sounds perfectly reasonable to me provided your vet agrees.
 
I wasn't comapring bute to thalidamide i was comparing the idea behind so called experts giving their opinion and everyone following it like sheep unable think for themselves. The answer being just because everyone else is doing it dosen't make it right!

and no I don't think it is unfair not to give a horse bute if it needs it.

I think it is unfair to then ride it while giving it bute, either way you look at it your drugging a horse to make it rideable.

and for what ? human pleasure...it's morally unjust....
 
So would you leave a mildly arthritic horse sat around doing nothing because in your opinion it is morally unjust?

Mild arthritis is just one example of a condition that actually is benefitted by low level exercise.

Or is it a case of 'sorry granny you just have to sit in your chair all day rather than walking down to the local shops...'
 
Thanks for your thoughts!

I am not suggesting I give him bute on a long term basis, he is an experienced eventer at 2* level, who has missed half the season and appears likely to miss the rest!
The thing is everyone says he is ok, and not in any pain, but he is still being very ignorant in the contact.
It would only be for my peace of mind so as I wasn't trying to ride him through this problem, if there is still an undiagnosed issue.
 
in the past i have done a two week "bute trial" under guidance from my vet as a diagnostic tool, its very useful. In my case it was with a horse who was "cold backed" to see if it was pain related or a learnt behavior.

I have no problem with keeping arthritic horses moving and in appropriate ridden work with a low dose of bute either - better than them being PTS or left ignored in a field.
 
I wouldn't see any harm in it either
I think you may find that the stiffness on the rein is a memory of pain and discomfort avoidance and he has just got used to that way of going
if he doesn't do it on the bute though then you will know you still have a pain issue.
All the people who think its so wrong- Is it not better for him to find out if he is in pain the quickest and simplest way?
 
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What utter tosh!!!

A low level of bute would not mask something seriously wrong, it would however alleviate low level discomfort in some conditions that would help a horse to lead a more active and fulfilling life. Keeping a horse working can sometimes be the best course of action.

And comparing bute to thallidomide is utter madness. Bute is more like a paracetamol!

Back to OP, what you have suggested sounds perfectly reasonable to me provided your vet agrees.

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i totally agree !
 
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So would you leave a mildly arthritic horse sat around doing nothing because in your opinion it is morally unjust?

Mild arthritis is just one example of a condition that actually is benefitted by low level exercise.

Or is it a case of 'sorry granny you just have to sit in your chair all day rather than walking down to the local shops...'

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Yes but your not asking the granny to carry her husband on her back are you.
 
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