Giving horses new competition names.

HashRouge

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What are the rules on name changing a passport horse? Can you do it with breeder's permission (as OP is suggesting)? If so and the OP gets permission, I don't see what the fuss is about. I'm not hugely bothered about names myself and think my Arab's registered name is stupid, but then again I never competed her regularly and had to hear it read over the tannoy!
 

ihatework

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Nah - you could just Google it - here you go: http://www.standardbred.org/files/newsletter/issue65.pdf

So, greater rule-breaking required on your part if you're determined on this on OP.

Of course, if you'd already changed the name I'd not have been able to see his breeding...

Looking at that you have clearly got a breeders prefix and also 2015 look to be ‘P’. I think it would be wrong to change this name. But we all know she will regardless
 

ycbm

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A question I woke with in my head. None of mine or my friend's continental bred horses (seven between us) have had stud prefixes. Why don't the Germans and Dutch seem to care so much?
 

ycbm

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Looking at that you have clearly got a breeders prefix and also 2015 look to be ‘P’. I think it would be wrong to change this name. But we all know she will regardless

My mother used to say 'She's the cat's mother.' I have no idea what that meant, but it wasn't polite about the person who said 'She did xyz'

I've found some of the points raised very persuasive. It was good to be reminded how good I think he is, which is clearly due to his breeder and he should keep his stud name.


What is the situation with owning a colt and breeding from him? Can you just issue yourself a covering certificate and passport the offspring with the father's name? Because if not, then his babies certainly won't carry his name in their passports and it would be nice if they did.
 

The Fuzzy Furry

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What is the situation with owning a colt and breeding from him? Can you just issue yourself a covering certificate and passport the offspring with the father's name? Because if not, then his babies certainly won't carry his name in their passports and it would be nice if they did.

Yes, he (breeder) can issue his own covering certs, and then register stock with his chosen place.
With some passport agencies (most Breeds) they may well need to have a stallion inspection before stock can be fully registered.
Fillies from registered stock can usually be entered immediately, colts for some societies are entered, but if not changed to gelding by 2 or 3 yrs (dependant on society) then usually colt must be inspected to be licenced, or any progeny by said colt is not eligable.

I suspect in your case ycbm, that the breeder is trying to get a stud going, always hard. Am suprised your lad wasn't inspected before you had him. That said, at least Breeder is trying to make a start in registering breeding details :)
 

ycbm

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Yes, he (breeder) can issue his own covering certs, and then register stock with his chosen place.
With some passport agencies (most Breeds) they may well need to have a stallion inspection before stock can be fully registered.
Fillies from registered stock can usually be entered immediately, colts for some societies are entered, but if not changed to gelding by 2 or 3 yrs (dependant on society) then usually colt must be inspected to be licenced, or any progeny by said colt is not eligable.

I suspect in your case ycbm, that the breeder is trying to get a stud going, always hard. Am suprised your lad wasn't inspected before you had him. That said, at least Breeder is trying to make a start in registering breeding details :)

There are two different breeders involved FF. His breeder is a long standing breeder of registered trotters who used an unregistered sire for him, the only one of that year's crop that does not have a registered father. They sold him as a yearling to the breeder I bought him from. That is a long established breeder for the bottom end of the market (think field full of mares and a colt, fenced with trailing barbed wire and baler twine) who used him for one year to sire some foals which are due next year. They will definitely be papered generically, but with a breed society.

Interestingly, he was sold as 'too good to be a stallion' in his advert, make of that what you will !
 
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popsdosh

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Yes, he (breeder) can issue his own covering certs, and then register stock with his chosen place.
With some passport agencies (most Breeds) they may well need to have a stallion inspection before stock can be fully registered.
Fillies from registered stock can usually be entered immediately, colts for some societies are entered, but if not changed to gelding by 2 or 3 yrs (dependant on society) then usually colt must be inspected to be licenced, or any progeny by said colt is not eligable.

I suspect in your case ycbm, that the breeder is trying to get a stud going, always hard. Am suprised your lad wasn't inspected before you had him. That said, at least Breeder is trying to make a start in registering breeding details :)

Actually the breeder has been going for 40yrs plus ,they know what they are doing. Obviously have a very good reason to sell and not wanting to breed more from him.
 

LadySam

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ycbm, I think you have ultimately made the right decision. Even if his lineage can only be traced through his dam (and therefore, only his dam's offspring that can be traced), that's what there is to work with and I personally think that shouldn't be trifled with. And if he does become a little dressage star, and anyone does try to trace him, I don't think there will be any doubt as to who to credit for his dressage chops! :D It kind of does you a favour in that respect, if you look on the bright side.

There was one thing I really wanted to reply to:

Doesn't anyone find it odd to sell something and want the right to control what it's called for the rest of its life? In any other walk of life, if you want control you have to keep ownership, don't you?
No. The first thing that came to mind for me was works of art. The artist - the one who created it in the first place - gets to name it, and quite rightly. Dumb name or no, that's how it's identified. And some works of art that are considered to be of no consequence when they are first created gradually have their worth revealed, and it's through that that our appreciation of lots of the artist's work can mature.

For example, consider the painter Georges Seurat. These days his work is seen as beautiful, brilliant, iconic and revolutionary. Yet he never sold a single painting in his lifetime. His first major work, Bathers at Asnières, was rejected by the Paris salon and confused the hell out of his contemporaries, to the point many thought it was rubbish - yet now it hangs in the National Gallery in London and is one of the gallery's jewels. Imagine if someone had bought it but hated its name and changed it. It could be hanging today in someone's loo, unappreciated, and the world might never know it.

Who knows what else his dam or breeder could produce? Or what Ludo's progeny will do? If there is a good reason in future to look it up, Ludo would not be able to be part of that story if he had a name change.

I dunno. Maybe it's a long bow to draw, but that's the comparison that came to mind.

Anyway. At least he isn't a Quarter Horse. I have quite a lot of those on my books and collectively they have some of the stupidest names I've ever seen. I thought my Quarter Horse mare's name was stupid, but I see they have gotten a lot stupider over the years! :D
 

claude rains

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Interestingly, he was sold as 'too good to be a stallion' in his advert, make of that what you will !


Heres Henry, 2 Year Old Colt
Heres Henry, 2 Year Old Colt
Here’s Henry, stunning Appaloosa colt, rising 3, to make 16hh, trotter x Appaloosa. Seen traffic. Loads well.
Has been turned out with mares all summer. Good to catch, excellent temperament.
Has potential for any discipline, wasted as a stallion hence sale.

Too good to be a stallion or wasted as a stallion?
 

crabbymare

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A question I woke with in my head. None of mine or my friend's continental bred horses (seven between us) have had stud prefixes. Why don't the Germans and Dutch seem to care so much?
I learnt after I named my foal that in Germany that with most registries the name is not set until the horse is registered either for sport with their FN, as a mare on entry to the studbook at 3+ years old, or as a stallion after licencing. Horses can have onbe name for the studbook (breeding) and another for competition, but that does not happen often.
 

ycbm

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Heres Henry, 2 Year Old Colt
Heres Henry, 2 Year Old Colt
Here’s Henry, stunning Appaloosa colt, rising 3, to make 16hh, trotter x Appaloosa. Seen traffic. Loads well.
Has been turned out with mares all summer. Good to catch, excellent temperament.
Has potential for any discipline, wasted as a stallion hence sale.

Too good to be a stallion or wasted as a stallion?

Well they mean the same to me, but if not to you, then that's fine. They meant too good, because it's what they said when I met them.
 
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ycbm

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ycbm, I think you have ultimately made the right decision. Even if his lineage can only be traced through his dam (and therefore, only his dam's offspring that can be traced), that's what there is to work with and I personally think that shouldn't be trifled with. And if he does become a little dressage star, and anyone does try to trace him, I don't think there will be any doubt as to who to credit for his dressage chops! :D It kind of does you a favour in that respect, if you look on the bright side.

There was one thing I really wanted to reply to:


No. The first thing that came to mind for me was works of art. The artist - the one who created it in the first place - gets to name it, and quite rightly. Dumb name or no, that's how it's identified. And some works of art that are considered to be of no consequence when they are first created gradually have their worth revealed, and it's through that that our appreciation of lots of the artist's work can mature.

For example, consider the painter Georges Seurat. These days his work is seen as beautiful, brilliant, iconic and revolutionary. Yet he never sold a single painting in his lifetime. His first major work, Bathers at Asnières, was rejected by the Paris salon and confused the hell out of his contemporaries, to the point many thought it was rubbish - yet now it hangs in the National Gallery in London and is one of the gallery's jewels. Imagine if someone had bought it but hated its name and changed it. It could be hanging today in someone's loo, unappreciated, and the world might never know it.

Who knows what else his dam or breeder could produce? Or what Ludo's progeny will do? If there is a good reason in future to look it up, Ludo would not be able to be part of that story if he had a name change.

I dunno. Maybe it's a long bow to draw, but that's the comparison that came to mind.

Anyway. At least he isn't a Quarter Horse. I have quite a lot of those on my books and collectively they have some of the stupidest names I've ever seen. I thought my Quarter Horse mare's name was stupid, but I see they have gotten a lot stupider over the years! :D

Great post, thank you. Thankfully my QHx is generically registered and has a fabulous name.
 

rara007

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Are you sure he’s even from that breeder- I don’t think you can race without both parents recorded? I have a pony with a fake prefix (since been OKed by the true holder of it and gelded anyway).
 

ycbm

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Are you sure he’s even from that breeder- I don’t think you can race without both parents recorded? I have a pony with a fake prefix (since been OKed by the true holder of it and gelded anyway).

Yes, definitely, he's on the Standardbred register as (PB) which I assume means part bred. The people I bought him from saw his mother and father. If he can't race it does make me wonder why they bred him, and whether he was simply a (lucky) mistake. I plan to contact his breeder and ask if we can change the Patch to something else beginning with P that will work better with his adult colour, which is not bay with one white patch as per his passport, but nearly white with a lot of conker colour spots. Then his foals can be papered to the same name and we can all be happy :)


Ideas for what the P could become are welcome! I quite like Previously Patchy as already suggested :)
 

DD

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I'm with ycbm on this. when I bred competition foals I let the buyer choose the names. most were astounded. the animal was only ever with me for a few months in its life so I decided whoever wanted to buy it train it keep it love it should choose the name. some let me know of the registered name they chose all told me the stable names. breeders egos get in the way. why should the breeder take all the credit for a horse when someone else has put in years of dedicated hard work to get the horse up to a high standard.
 
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I'm with ycbm on this. when I bred competition foals I let the buyer choose the names. most were astounded. the animal was only ever with me for a few months in its life so I decided whoever wanted to buy it train it keep it love it should choose the name. some let me know of the registered name they chose all told me the stable names. breeders egos get in the way. why should the breeder take all the credit for a horse when someone else has put in years of dedicated hard work to get the horse up to a high standard.

Most breeders spend years researching lines, buying the right mares, finding the best stallion match to produce the best offspring they can. It's not just a case of bunging any old mare and and old stallion in a field and hope it comes out good! Then you have the whole keeping of the mare whilst pregnant, the birth, associated vets visits even when things go perfectly etc. And all the mental and physical blood sweat and tears that it takes just to get that foal to weaning!
 

Lanky Loll

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Yes, definitely, he's on the Standardbred register as (PB) which I assume means part bred. The people I bought him from saw his mother and father. If he can't race it does make me wonder why they bred him, and whether he was simply a (lucky) mistake. I plan to contact his breeder and ask if we can change the Patch to something else beginning with P that will work better with his adult colour, which is not bay with one white patch as per his passport, but nearly white with a lot of conker colour spots. Then his foals can be papered to the same name and we can all be happy :)


Ideas for what the P could become are welcome! I quite like Previously Patchy as already suggested :)

I suspect that he was one of the many attempts to breed a fast coloured pacer :D there are a few around racing under rules and are pretty much always slower than their solid counterparts to the point that they have races just for them.
Given his dam's name if he goes back to Stoneriggs JR on the dam side (and given that he's from JRs stud that is a reasonable assumption) then he's got some great dam line pedigree - it's just possible that they put her to an unreg (possibly road racing - totally hypothetical here) stallion to try and finally get a fast one.
FWIW we put one of our ex-racing standies to a spotty stallion on two occasions, she threw 2 enormous colts despite neither parentbeing very big, who both went on to Novice BE level, so it's not a cross that would put me off if I was looking for a riding horse :)
 

ycbm

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EKW that is really nice to know, thank you. He seems to me to not throw his legs far enough behind him to make a good trotter, but heck what do I know about harness racing :D. All I know is I was pleased to see him step right under and power upwards, not push off the legs and have them flying out behind him. I bought the horse in front of me.

I'm pretty sure he's not going to stop at 16 hands despite his parents being smaller. He's only two and since he has been on the hills, over a week now, he has shot up in height and must be approaching 15.2 already. So it's interesting to hear that your mare bred big males to a similar combination.
 

Lanky Loll

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Some of them move amazingly - one of our home breds had a stunning trot and collected canter, sadly she stopped growing at 15.2 and although I would have loved to have kept her once she finished racing she was just too small for me :( Another of ours had a proper show pony "daisy cutter" trot - was amazing to watch when he flicked over :D
With the standies we used to breed for a good strong thigh as that's where the power comes from - also makes for a good jumper ;-)

I remember JR as having a good knee action - his son "Fearless JR" was also amazing racing "free legged" (no hopples) and beating the others off a 60 yard handicap - they're both harness legends: http://www.bhrc.org.uk/racing/hall-of-fame/horses/stoneriggs-j-r/
 

DD

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Most breeders spend years researching lines, buying the right mares, finding the best stallion match to produce the best offspring they can. It's not just a case of bunging any old mare and and old stallion in a field and hope it comes out good! Then you have the whole keeping of the mare whilst pregnant, the birth, associated vets visits even when things go perfectly etc. And all the mental and physical blood sweat and tears that it takes just to get that foal to weaning!
I know been there done it got the t-shirt. I still let the buyer choose the name.
 

popsdosh

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Heres Henry, 2 Year Old Colt
Heres Henry, 2 Year Old Colt
Here’s Henry, stunning Appaloosa colt, rising 3, to make 16hh, trotter x Appaloosa. Seen traffic. Loads well.
Has been turned out with mares all summer. Good to catch, excellent temperament.
Has potential for any discipline, wasted as a stallion hence sale.

Too good to be a stallion or wasted as a stallion?

inbox overload
 
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