God, not again....

[itsme123]

Okay, so all had been fine with pup, no more incidents for few days (which for him is a small miracle). We'd been shutting him in the hallway when we went out (nothing but carpet or radiator that he might hurt himself on). But we then realised our doors don't 'shut' as such, just close to, and if pushed from the outside will open which meant pup could theoretically get int the lounge. So back to a stairgate it was. We can't crate/ pen him as he panics and throws himself around.

Yesterday we had to go out for half an hour in the afternoon. He'd been to the yard with me all morning so we thought he'd be tired. Left him with a chewy bone and went out. Tied the stairgate tightly closed, aware of the fact he'd got his head stuck in it (perhaps) before....

Came home and as soon as we walked into the entrance of the flats we could hear crying, rushed into the flat and there he laid with his nose stuck UNDER the gate. How he'd managed that god only knows

.

Tongue bleeding, nose bleeding and one VERY swollen muzzle

. Vet assures us nothing is broken, just lots of swelling. He's eating and drinking fine... just obviously won't let us touch his face. I'm sure the Vet is sick of the sight of us... but this makes sense re the tongue....

So... stairgates are now a total no-no, as is his puppy crate.

Separation anxiety the vet said, which makes total sense, he must've been freaking out when we left him

I feel terrible because I just never thought, just didnt imagine he would be that upset.

We're moving into the house next week and OH's spent all weekend fencing the garden safely for him and hopefully once we've settled in he'll be okay, but we're wondering if getting another dog would help? perhaps an older dog (we've been looking at rescue) which would help calm him?? We've the space and money for another (and time, afterall he's only ever alone for an hour a day tops). Would it be better to leave it until he's settled before we thought about this??

He's 100% fine when we're here, we can leave him behind the stairgate and he doesnt do a thing. Just, it seems, when we're all out, he anics so much he's actually hurting himself. My nerves (and bank balance) can't cope with much more

 

[Colleen_Miss_Tom]

Oh the poor pup .....

Do you ever close him in somewhere when your actually in the house ? He needs to be taught that it is ok for him to be left on his own for short periods of time .

As for getting another dog, you could do this but you would need to be sure of its background if you are thinking of rescueing . Also needs to be something that has a laid back attitude and not something that could potientially make pup worse ...Unlikely but you just dont know .

What about a really large crate with a few toys in it ... just leaving the crate open and put his bed in it .... not locking him in but just gradually getting him to go into the crate so that he knows its nothing to panic about .

Poor boy has really been through the mills

 

[CAYLA]

I thought u crate trained him as a puppy? do u not use his crate anymore?

 

[kerilli]

i think i'd get a friend for him really quickly, he sounds as if he just cannot cope with being on his own... 2 dogs really are no more trouble than 1 imho! (and sometimes a lot less, by the sounds of it...)

 

[CorvusCorax]

Wow, that explains things a bit better re his tongue then.

I do agree with getting a big crate (I have a mahoosive one) and getting him used to that while you are in the house so he sees it as a den and a comforting place, not a place where he is shut when you go out.
When you are out, maybe leave radio or telly on.

I don't know about getting a new dog for the sake of one hour a day? He really needs to get used to periods alone - what if something came up? They can't be at our sides 24/7 and have to be prepared for that if, God forbid, something important happened, you couldn't take him with you etc and there was no other option for him to be alone.

Just out of interest, how do you 'greet' him when you return home?

 

[itsme123]

In reply to various questions (sorry, I've been so busy couldnt get back on before).

Yes he was crate trained. He was fine with his crate until I hit upon the idea that maybe he would like to have the door left open and have the run of the kitchen 24/7... and he chose to sleep on the floor as opposed to the crate. He outgrew his crate and I got him a HUGE crate (I actually have pics of both my kids in it somewhere) which he didnt like, but that's the crate he destroyed the bottom of. It's a savic crate (cost me over £100) so destroying the base, literally tearing it apart was no mean feat for a JRT pup...

and I darent put him back in it.... the builders witnessed this and one said he was going 'loopy throwing himself against the sides'

He's chewed his testicles (we're waiting on his blood tests returning as normal... his platelets are still a wee bit low... before the vet will castrate him) and yesterday chewed his own back leg. WTF am i doing wrong? Yes, we moved house.... I just don't understand why, after 8 weeks, he's still unsettled??
OH and I have decided that in the new house (we seriously couldnt help having to move twice) he will have the run of the house and whole garden and we've made the garden 100% escape proof, and we've discussed getting another crate, smaller this time (maybe the huge crate frightened him?) and working on that... though that won't stop the chewing of legs.. but maybe the security will help??

I'm no numpty when it comes to dogs, my father has trained gundogs for years, only stopping ten years ago, and we've had some insecure rescues, but nothing that was to this extreme. I did everything by the book as far as I can see, he was socialised, left alone as a pup (he was fine until we moved, and I can see why this started), and is treated like a dog not a child (I was guilty of mothering him at one point but that all stopped). He has a strong dislike of OH, yet when HE chooses to will happily lay on his lap and play with him. If OH goes behind the gate with him he snarls and bites. He never does this with me or the children. But then, he;s always been funny with OH.
When I come in I do what i have to do (shoes coat etc) perhaps 5 or so minutes then open the gate and allow him to come to me before taking him out for a wee. If it's all of us coming in the door then generally OH will let him out and take him for a wee, as he doesnt 'go' for me, only OH...

It's driving me round the bend with anxiety...

 

[CorvusCorax]

Argh, I know this isn't going to help you, but he WILL be picking up on your anxiety, the more stressed he gets, you get, and he will get even stressier.

Sorry, when I talk about a crate, I talk about a big metal one, not a plastic one, is yours the latter?
Mine is like this:

so it has a removeable metal tray which a dog would be hard pushed to damage.

Self-mutilation is related to anxiety or as Cayla mentioned the other day, externalisation of an internal problem he can't get at.

It's hard to comment without actually seeing him but is there any way you could consult a behaviourist near you?
As well as the move he has also had those injuries and being back and forth to the vet will have unsettled him too, he just sounds like he is very confused and stressed, hope things work out for you all.

 

[itsme123]

yes, that's the crate. I bought one of the biggest i could get and here's the pic, as after it arrived i realised perhaps it was too big?
(it always had his beddng and toys in and I reasoned it was large enough to get his water etc in and give him room to stretch out)

I asked my vet re 'therapy' (couldnt think of another word) and he said to leave it for a while until we've settled as the nearest is quite a way away.
I don't know if it would be worth trying puppy classes and seeing if the person who runs them could help me? I mean, we stopped puppy classes as he was socialised and we'd moved (and he can do sit, stay, lie down, recall and heel etc) so maybe worth starting up again? I don't know how to stop worrying, I leave him with loads of toys, chews, he has two stuffed kongs when I go out yet has bite marks all over his back legs... I sat and bawled the other day and Oh asked did I want to rehome him and I half considered it, maybe he'd be happier elsewhere?

 

[CorvusCorax]

I think keeping up the training is a really good idea.

My dog is two and I will be taking him to training at least one day a week, sometimes twice, for as long as he is with me - it knackers him mentally and physically, it keeps his brain active, once he has got good at something we can look at other options and try something else.

Also the trainer may be able to offer help.

Have you ever tried covering the crate with a blanket so he feels more secure? Ours gets used as an extra coffee table

 

[CAYLA]

It sounds like he has experienced something bad whilst u have not been there...which could be getting jammed in the gate or something else

........I also think taking the crate away when he was so young was a mistake, alot of people do this and it'a always harder to get them back in...u need a smaller crate for sure , and u need to start crating him gradually when u are in and not jsut when u are leaving him and wear him out first, to burn off some of the energy he is using to fuel the anxious/self mutilating behaviour.........owners often think their dog is fully trained when they see acceptible all round results at a certain age, your dog experiences 3 different stages in life going from puppy to juvenile to adult and each and every stage can bring about different behaviours and believe it or not some stages are more vunerable than others when experiencing a fearful experience making it a little harder to over come, his hormones are also kicking in...as he is unless im wrong in his juvenile stage and has alot to deal with (think teenager)
U need to reasure him in a non physical pampering way and I would also with what u describe......get some recording equiptment on the go....but for now, get a smaller crate and re-introduce it positively only placing him in it when u are in and he is well exercised, feed him in their and give him as u already do his usual pigs ears, kong stuffed with some of his dry diet and tuna, and take all of this away when he is not in it, it should not be randomly left for him, this is a positive only to be assosiated with the crate.
Also try a dap collar/diffuser.

 

[Colleen_Miss_Tom]

Also Charlie ...How often do you walk him ? and how long for ?

Would be worth taking him for really long walks and plenty of running around and really tire him out .

Then as cayla and CC have suggested start work on retraining him for the crate again .

I actually didn't realise he was as small as that, I for some reason had it in my head he was a type of collie or something

:

Very cute little fella

 

[itsme123]

ahh no, he;s just a wee JRT

We're going to get a smaller crate (that one will never fit in our new house) and crate train him again, it seems the obvious solution to help him regain his sense of security.

Because we're in a flat he has to go on the lead and for a short walk to do his buisness, so he goes out when we get up (around 6 or 7am) then when I get back from the school run at 9.30am he has a longer walk, perhaps 40 minutes or so we walk over to the park and play with the ball, do some 'work' or go up the fields and he runs around lots, then he goes for a short 'loo' walk at about lunchtime, then he comes to school with me which takes about an hour, then goes for a 'loo' walk at about 6pm, then again in the evening as and when he asks to go. Sometimes OH takes him out again, but not too far as I'm aware he's still only a pup and I dont want to wear him out

. So he can be out an about 6 or 8 times a day. Hes not bored, he has lots of new toys (I have a box of toys and chop and change what he has out to play with).


Thankyou again for your advice, I'll come back over this in the coming days and weeks (maybe months!) and might ask some questions if that's okay? You've all been terribly patient with my dozy questions and I'm annoyed with myself for 'un training' him from the crate. I just never realised how secure it must have been for him

 

[kirstyhen]

Sorry if this has been suggested/tried, I haven't really read all the replies, but have you tried DAP?