Going 'back to basics' ..... not as simple as it sounds

Rosie2407

Rosie2407

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Hi again everyone.

Ok so have posted a couple of times before about my mare's bit/mouth issues.
have now had conf that her teeth/mouth are most definitely not the cause of her ridden issues.
Have had the ok from saddle fitter and back specialist too, so am all good to go right?

My mare is super duper strong and gets very 'excitable' when I move above anything other than walk. I have tried several thousand options with bits, bridles etc and nothing seems to suit us. She definitely needs to be taken 'back to basics' and all of her issues schooled out of her so I will be getting lessons to help us with this.

FYI - our 'issues' are balance (both of us!) and mostly her strenght - cant stop her, she rushes off in canter and then after I 've had a canter her head is in the clouds and I can't get anything else other than canter out of her.

So I guess my main question is, where do I start? I can't stop her at all if I out something 'soft' in her mouth, if I have anything too strong she evades it.

How do I find a middle ground to let me get started?

Big slab of chocolate cake for anyone who bothered to read all that! x
 
Ummm... is she running form excitement or has someone given her a good beating if she's being slow do you think or what?? I would say... Month off with groundwork (maybe clicker to move away form rpessure - my horse never understood about yielding to pressure form mouth or legs until i taught him wiht a clicker). Then get on, using lightest bit that you feel confident in. Just walking, lots of praise, practice e.g. backing up, maybe using clicker etc so it's all about yielding and confidence but in a ncie way for her. Then just a few strides of trot, then calming walking lots of rpaise when she slows down etc. Just really really slow steps, i would say.... may help?? Worth a try maybe?
 
She's def never been beaten up - she's been in my family all her life.
She is very forward going through sheer arrogance I think lol!!

So, groundwork is a good idea. I guess my instructor will help me with this too.
She is just so bossy it can be a nightmare trying to keep her reeled in.

Thank you for your suggestions x
 
ah bless her. lovely to hear of a horse so ethusiastic just from being happy to go forwards though!! i jsut did the 'back to basics' thing with my horse and totally learnt a lot about him. it's really helped in some areas (and highlighted others that need work)! good luck with it - if it's the grey, she looks gorgeous!
 
I had a similar thing with my old horse who was (still is) uber excitable. I did a lot of lunging in a snaffle and side reins. and after this was able to ride in a nice outline in walk. Our problem, like yours, was when we went to trot or canter. As soon as we up a gear, it was very exciting and it was a real mind over matter thing for me - chants inside brain 'DO NOT PICK UP THE REINS DO NOT PICK UP THE REINS while trotting round the school, horse gets faster and more excitable and i try very very hard not to pick the reins up because as soon as I do - CANTER!! Never to trot again, or at least not for that schooling session. Its kind of worked but takes a lot of strength mentally and was also easier for me as my horse though a nutcase in one way is very safe in another. So if we did end up cantering rather fast on a long rein round the school, it didn't really matter as I knew we would stop eventually. Things were most definitely calmer if I could keep on a longer rein (the same length as when walking in a nice outline)

Head also goes in clouds as soon as the pace goes up and we have had varying sucess with a martingale but the best thing is to not take up the reins to starts with - short the rein, faster the pace and higher the head! Not sure if this is helpful or not.......
 
You probably have but I'll ask anyway - have you tried her in a Dr Cook? I've swapped my fussy-mouthed, forward-going TB in the last 6 weeks and it's been something of a revelation.... I never thought I'd have better brakes with no bit but it works.. and he's so much calmer generally.
 
To me going back to basics means going right back and pretending she's a baby horse that you are re-starting. Then working on suppleness, flexion and responsiveness on the ground and all paces, and ridden at all paces. Each time the horse forgets themselves and gets a bit strong I'd take a step back and repeat the earlier lessons.
That's how I retrained my horses to first be ridden in a rope halter, and then reintroduced the bit.
 
Does she listen to weight aids? Are you sitting back and deep or is she pulling you out of the saddle?

It might help if you had some lessons on another horse, so you can get your balance sorted out without worrying about her tanking off?
 
domane said:
You probably have but I'll ask anyway - have you tried her in a Dr Cook?
Click to expand...

No I haven't tried that. I did try a hackamore though and had zero brakes so am a bit dubious now..... How does it work differently from a hackamore? (sorry don't know much about them)


Brandy - thanks, sounds like they are very similar. I actually found myself trying the mind over matter stuff the other day ('think slow') and I felt like it did work to an extent but I didn't try it when cantering. I know she's not going to do anything bad so I might be brave and give it a go. Maybe combining that with all the groundwork/lungeing will start to get me somewhere

*think slow, think slow, think slow* lol!!
 
Spudlet said:
Does she listen to weight aids? Are you sitting back and deep or is she pulling you out of the saddle?

It might help if you had some lessons on another horse, so you can get your balance sorted out without worrying about her tanking off?
Click to expand...

You're probably completely right - I'm sure my rustiness is not helping the situation. I'm just returning after a year off due to injury so still getting back into the swing of things.......

I'll be getting lessons with another person. Maybe we could do a wee swap every now and then......

And yes, she does listen to weight aids and your leg very well and in trot she really does listen but in canter I find myself being towed round so fast that I can't get any sort of seat apart from to haul the brakes on!!!
 
Rosie2407 said:
You're probably completely right - I'm sure my rustiness is not helping the situation. I'm just returning after a year off due to injury so still getting back into the swing of things.......

I'll be getting lessons with another person. Maybe we could do a wee swap every now and then......

And yes, she does listen to weight aids and your leg very well and in trot she really does listen but in canter I find myself being towed round so fast that I can't get any sort of seat apart from to haul the brakes on!!!
Click to expand...

I know that feeling well, I used to have a real electric bum and end up tanking off on virtually everything! **flashbacks to lessons spent entirely with instructor screaming 'Get your @rse back in that saddle!'**:D I used to get told to do circles and transitions to get the horse listening, but that was a horse that knew how to balance but was choosing to be a stubborn git and tank about - the last thing you would want to do is try a circle and end up falling over! Maybe you could start really really big and gradually work on making the circles smaller?

If you lunged her first, would that blow her mind for the whole session or might it help get it out of her system, do you think?
 
Somewhat off topic & slightly random question but, Rosie2407 your horse isn't out of the ID stallion Amber Legend by any chance?

She's the spit of my mare who is & incidently has so many "quirks" that even after a lot of time, money and effort I've pretty much decided to leave her as a very pretty (if large!) field ornament!!

love her to bits but wow she can be difficult.
 
Spudlet said:
If you lunged her first, would that blow her mind for the whole session or might it help get it out of her system, do you think?
Click to expand...

Lol!!! I'm not too sure - I'm going to give that a go this week and see whether I survive it or not!! I've a feeling it might jst get her in a tiz, but it's worth a try!
 
Have you though about making canter just not that exciting for her???

I mean if a horse is shooting forwards then I wold let it canter until it started to stop then keep asking til it got bored.

now I am not talking about galloping hell for leather round a school or field but just keep asking for canter every time she stops until its just not that exciting anymore.

Nikki xxx
 
FWIW I would also try lunging first to get all the kinks out of her legs, even to the stage where she is pretty worn out......
How often is she being ridden? Silly question but what is she being fed?
I'm sure you've investigated all this before as she has been with you for much of her life......
Also (this is not meant to cause offence) has your instructor or any professional rider ridden her and given you an assessment?
My horse is very forward going but when in full work and relaxed in her school situation (ie.she can see other horses) is a complete lamb to ride, other times if something upsets her or unsettles her, she gets faster and faster and can tank off and yes, its hard work so I know what you mean!!
The last thing you want to to is haul her into slowing down as this will just make them pull even more but on the other hand a balanced rythmic pace is what you want!
Good luck!
 
not irish is she by any chance?
my last IDx was a bit like that with her mouth and was obstinate when she felt like it, never dangerous but just downright rude sometimes, pulling me down if she felt she wanted a longer rein. etc.
She went beatifully in a dr cooks - obv no no for dressage so i went thru bits like i dont know what and ended up in a nathe for dressage with drop noseband.
The dr cooks was for occasional schooling and hacking.
It works on whole head rather than nose and poll with a hackamore - If you use left rein it 'pulls' the right cheek around same other way and both reins a little nose pressure but hugs the head. It sounds wierd but works!!!
Can get cheap copies on ebay as original ones are £100
 
Sounds just like the way my grey mare is going! Now she's fit, she's decided that she's going to become strong, stubborn and do everything other than walk at top speed. I know how frustrating it can be (well, at least I have a slight idea now) so I hope you can get it sorted out. :)
 
Thanks everyone!

And yes - she is IDx...... you're not the only person who has said that!! hmmmm

It's nice to kow there are ways to get through this and I'm hopefully going to get there eventually.


Thanks!!! :D x

*goes back to start all over again*
 
Spudlet said:
I know that feeling well, I used to have a real electric bum and end up tanking off on virtually everything! **flashbacks to lessons spent entirely with instructor screaming 'Get your @rse back in that saddle!'**:D I used to get told to do circles and transitions to get the horse listening, but that was a horse that knew how to balance but was choosing to be a stubborn git and tank about - the last thing you would want to do is try a circle and end up falling over! Maybe you could start really really big and gradually work on making the circles smaller?

If you lunged her first, would that blow her mind for the whole session or might it help get it out of her system, do you think?
Click to expand...


hehe i have this problem too... electric bum turns well schooled dressage horse into tanking warmblood... i then made the mistake of buying an excitable & tempremental grey tb mare (coinsidence?) that needed A LOT of schooling & heats up on air. the think slow thing really does work, also because she takes hold of the bit i only have waterford and lozenge bits, although a lot of them as have tried every bit under the sun. i think going on holiday and leaving her to be schooled for 2 weeks at the rs did some good although electic bum seems to have undone that
 
guccigivi2001 said:
hehe i have this problem too... electric bum turns well schooled dressage horse into tanking warmblood... i then made the mistake of buying an excitable & tempremental grey tb mare (coinsidence?) that needed A LOT of schooling & heats up on air. the think slow thing really does work, also because she takes hold of the bit i only have waterford and lozenge bits, although a lot of them as have tried every bit under the sun. i think going on holiday and leaving her to be schooled for 2 weeks at the rs did some good although electic bum seems to have undone that
Click to expand...


hmm maybe its just a thing with grey irish mares then? mines just rude really, although also very excitable... also just to say, go for a hack and when she tanks, make her keep going until you decide to stop, and lungeing aswell so atleast shes doing things on your terms... i found no matter what i feed shes like this, its just her nature so really just dictate when she will do things on the lunge/inhand/galloping etc even if it means feeling a bit bad for being rude and stubborn at her. ive found lungeing has helped a lot as she is now more respectful as to what i want her to do and instead of tanking everytime i want a canter and so forth, she is learning to pop in at a nice speed,m although she will always be strong and have a good argue with me :) you just need to show her whos boss and then maybe sort your brAKES out from there?
 
grey irish mares - the new chestnut mare. who knew lol!!!

I'm going to have a go at lunging before I ride tonight. Hopefully I'll be here to tell the tale tomorrow!
 
Rosie2407 said:
grey irish mares - the new chestnut mare. who knew lol!!!

I'm going to have a go at lunging before I ride tonight. Hopefully I'll be here to tell the tale tomorrow!
Click to expand...

I've got one of these bolshy Irish grey mares too, and yes, canter can be a nightmare. Sometimes she's fine, sometimes she bucks in her transitions (big ones!) and she can be difficult to stop once shes got a good canter going in the school. My techniques for dealing with this will probably be shot down in flames, but I found riding her in a neckstrap and giving it a good pull if she took off tended to help slow her down. (rather than hauling at the reins). For the bucking i have found she is less likely to buck in her transitions if i don't have too firm a contact. So we won't win any dressage rosettes but hey-ho.
Maybe we should start a clique for bolshy Irish grey mares LOL
 
Ha ha!
I can't believe there are so many of us! Feel free to join lol!!!

I recently moved my mare to a new yard and within 2 days everyone was calling her Rosie McBossy instead of Rosie McPosy! She fairly made an impression! :D:D
 
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