Going barefoot ?

[Ali2]

I didnt alter his diet at all and didnt give him and special extras/supplements, I think all that tosh is hype! Good luck!

Lucky you! What was his diet to start with? That diet 'tosh' is most certainly not hype IME! Plenty of horses are significantly improved by putting them on a 'barefoot diet' or, as I prefer to think of it, a suitable diet for an equine. My boy most certainly wouldn't be as good as he is without all the diet 'tosh'

 

[paddy555]

Yes, I am in a DIY yard and he moves around from one field to another, according to the YO, also the haylage is off the same farm but varies in composition, I can't do much about it, and as he is occasionally fine, I feel there is no basic problem. I do not like his feet to be so wet, and feel this is the main problem.
Steady up is a magnesium based supplement, but am happy to add a bit more.
He has perfect gait in the walk , but I listen to him as he comes in from the field, and can tell if he is confident or footy. In fact, his hind hooves are the best they have ever been [three and a half years]

I would struggle with the wet being the problem. (albeit you could have thrush or fungal infections which would cause a problem) There are far too many barefoot horses who are at their soundest in winter living on wet muddy ground. You could possibly have a problem of thrush with keeping him in if he is mucky in his stable. Not sure what bedding you use but that could be one thing to consider.

His diet seems to be almost totally haylage and grass and I think that is where your problem will be. The haylage has the potential to be the culprit. Obviously depends on the original grass, when cut etc etc. The other is the grass. One of mine cannot even have 10 mins at the moment and even in the depths of winter he is limited to 20 mins. If he is sometimes fine and sometimes footy then I suspect it may be linked to the grazing, state of the grass at the time (it has been particuarly bad recently) and possibly the grass in conjunction with the haylage. Leaving aside mineral balancing and a feed plan it may be possible just to get a sample of your haylage analysed which may give you an indication of whether it is likely to be causing a problem

You could eliminate the grass by removing him completely and giving only haylage. It would probably take around 10 days to get an answer.
The other variable is the haylage. If it has been made from different fields, cut at different times etc different bales may have different results.

I suspect you will be in the same position as a large number of people with horses affected to some degree by grass who do not have total control over their horses living arrangements and you will struggle,.

Some people muzzle. If you would consider that you may be able to get him out for much longer.
Some people accept it and boot to ride. If you can be sure he is simply footy due to the grass and not liable to go into laminitis that would be one way. I cannot do that as mine would go quickly from footy to full blown lammy if he got the chance. It may be a case that as we move into winter yours gets progressively less footy which will probably indicate grass.

The only other method of keeping him would be to find some accomodation where he can live yarded off grass but that may not be a possibility.

Personally I would boot him all the time to ride during the months when he was footy. It may mean that you could get more ridden faster exercise into him to compensate for being stabled. I find with mine that the more exercise the better although he probably has worse problems than yours.

Somewhere you describe him as going loopy on rich grass. Mine does that on hay that is too rich and becomes almost unrideable.

 

[Miss L Toe]

I have just spoken to a visiting farrier and he says west of scotland is notorious, mainly due to the wet, I am not prepared to keep him stabled any more than now, so I will go with the boots and see how it goes.
He gets a feed night and am, but as he is not in work, I don't feel he is being deprived of food, and he is getting sugar beet pulp plus vits and mins plus mare and youngstock.
He is only 15.00 and does 40 mins walking per day.

 

[cptrayes]

I didnt alter his diet at all and didnt give him and special extras/supplements, I think all that tosh is hype!

I am sorry, but the fact is that you clearly do not have the experience to make this judgement. You have ONE barefoot horse. Anyone with multiple barefoot horses will tell you that they are all different and what suits one will not suit another. Diet is not tosh, it is probably more important than almost any other aspect of maintaining a diet-SENSITIVE (which yours is not) barefoot horse.

Think yourself lucky that your horse was easy. Many are not.

 

[cob&onion]

Can i ask a few questions?

I really wanted my cob to be barefoot (well without shoes) i have a regular farrier. She is recently broken in and has been going since June. We do road work up to 3 x per week and she copes fine on tarmac but gets stumbly on rocky/stony surfaces, something we cannot avoid she gets her feet trimmed every 10 weeks (thereabouts) and recently she has been worse on the hard stony ground. My farrier came and mentioned she could do with front shoes as there wearing thin?! (the hoofs i think he meant) before she gets any worse.

She out 24/7 and has a small feed of happy hoof and sugar beet once per day.

I take it from reading posts that diet has ALOT to do with it, so is it worth getting the shoes on for now or start the diet and hold off from the shoes?!

Ideas please!

 

[amandap]

I am sorry, but the fact is that you clearly do not have the experience to make this judgement. You have ONE barefoot horse. Anyone with multiple barefoot horses will tell you that they are all different and what suits one will not suit another. Diet is not tosh, it is probably more important than almost any other aspect of maintaining a diet-SENSITIVE (which yours is not) barefoot horse.

Think yourself lucky that your horse was easy. Many are not.

I agree, diet is not tosh or hype. The grass and other forage you have is a vital element imo and in some areas there are minerals missing almost completely or way too high. Getting the best balance you can can be extremely important for some horses.
Generally my grass is bad for all my horses and very bad for two of them. Also, as cptrayes says, within this every horse is individual in it's response and some are sensitive to even tiny adjustments in diet.

 

[paddy555]

Can i ask a few questions?

I really wanted my cob to be barefoot (well without shoes) i have a regular farrier. She is recently broken in and has been going since June. We do road work up to 3 x per week and she copes fine on tarmac but gets stumbly on rocky/stony surfaces, something we cannot avoid she gets her feet trimmed every 10 weeks (thereabouts) and recently she has been worse on the hard stony ground. My farrier came and mentioned she could do with front shoes as there wearing thin?! (the hoofs i think he meant) before she gets any worse.

She out 24/7 and has a small feed of happy hoof and sugar beet once per day.

I take it from reading posts that diet has ALOT to do with it, so is it worth getting the shoes on for now or start the diet and hold off from the shoes?!

Ideas please!

when you get "recently footy" and "out 24/7" together it is a reasonable guess where the problem is. You are right that diet has a LOT to do with it and unfortunately for many that is grass and for some it only needs a little grass.

For you the question will be how much grass is causing the problem ie can she manage going out for part of the time or do you have a severe problem. There is no way of guessing it is just a case of experimenting to find out.
If you only have a slight problem things will get better as the winter comes so in one way if you have got this far you may think it is worth carrying on as you have learnt quite a lot as to what your problems may be.

Things to consider may be for example if you keep her barefoot are you prepared to use boots as and when necessary. The other thing is can you accomodate her if her grazing has to be restricted especially if it has to be considerably restricted in spring and autummn. One of mine is completely off grass (has been for years) but I am very lucky in having sufficient space for him to wander around all the time and to have a good quality of life.

I think that it may be mean if a horse had to be stabled for most of the time due to the grass in order that it could go without shoes.
That is just my opinion of course and the risks of laminitis have to be weighed up.

It is not really a case of shoeing or not as you can buy some boots very quickly. It is more a question of the flexibility in your horse's living arrangements. Do you have enough scope to make it work?

Presumably by sugar beet you mean speedibeet but if not the molasses in sugar beet don't work too well for some barefoot horses so it is worth washing the soaked sugar beet (through a sieve) to get rid of the molasses.
Hope this gives you some ideas

 

[tallyho!]

I tansised (is that a new word btw?? Did I fall asleep??) my boy Summer 2010.

He has fab feet now and Diet IS IMPORTANT TO HIM!!!!! as he is a laminitc.

Yes, A LAMI!!

Sorry to keep shouting but people who are lucky to have a horse that does not need careful monitoring should not patronise those who work hard to have a fit & healthy horse that performs without shoes (xc, dr, sj - we don't hunt but would love to)

Anyway, I thought it would take 6 months to "transise" (snort!) but was much quicker. We were hacking sans boots by January and competing by about May. This is taking into consideration the navicular, nail-bind and lami that had set us back for years. And now, over a year later, we have very good hoofies and we live out 24/7 but supplement with a variety of essential mins... copper, bit of extra calcium and mag. Brewers yeast & micronised linseed helps with his metabolic issues and we detox often and worm carefully.

OP, you will find lots of helpful and kind people on here to bounce things off but I recommend a professional for all the physical necessities you NEED.

 

[Janah]

Why does taking shoes off, as being natural for a horse/pony mean we have to give a certain diet?

Why in Spring/Autumn are they more at risk from laminitis?

Why if being shod doesn't give the same problems, that going unshod does?

I am avoiding the barefoot word and going with unshod.

 

[Miss L Toe]

Why does taking shoes off, as being natural for a horse/pony mean we have to give a certain diet?

Why in Spring/Autumn are they more at risk from laminitis?

Why if being shod doesn't give the same problems, that going unshod does?

I am avoiding the barefoot word and going with unshod.

Re barefoot/unshod, I think we are following the general understanding proposed in Feet First, that a horse is unshod when it is out in a field with no shoes on, not in work, and gets a pasture trim to remove growth.

Barefoot is a horse in work but not shod, ideally, a healthy barefoot horse can cope with most work asked of it without wearing hoof boots. A barefoot horse ideally self-trims so that regular trimming is not required, though this the ideal not the norm.

You are asking a lot of basic questions, the answers would fill a book: a book like FEET FIRST!

OK, briefly UK horses are on an imperfect diet, they get too much sugar rich grass.
UK grass is often lacking in certain minerals and is unbalanced, for that reason ideally the forages should be analysed and the diet adjusted [see http://www.forageplus.com/ ]
Like all athletes, diet is more important to the horse in work than if it is loafing about in a field.

Grass in spring and autumn is high in sugars and low in magnesium, this causes inflammation of the lamellae in the hooves and the horse gets laminitis.

Horse are shod for the convenience of their owners, a rim of steel is attached to the hoof wall, this affects the gait of the horse, plus concussion as the steel hits the road, it can cause long term issues. The sensitivity of the hoof is not so noticeable, and for that reason the average horse can be ridden with shoes on more readily than without.

 

[amandap]

Why does taking shoes off, as being natural for a horse/pony mean we have to give a certain diet?

It doesn't. It means you can see clearly when a horse is struggling as well as see how weak the hooves might be.

Why in Spring/Autumn are they more at risk from laminitis?

Again, it doesn't or rather they're not but you will see any symptoms sooner.

I am avoiding the barefoot word and going with unshod.

Barefoot to me means a striving to get a horse and it's hooves strong enough to work hard. Using unshod to me means shoes are the norm for horses so moves the emphasis to barefoot being unusual rather than how horses are meant to be.

My personal belief is the barefoot movement has exposed problems with how some horses are managed in the longer term. It challenges the owner and professionals to look at problems the horse has and may have developed and then strive to improve all aspects of management so the horse can grow stronger healthier hooves and in many cases (though of course not all) improve problems.
I have come to believe that hooves are a window to the horses general health as well so working to get hooves healthy also helps the horses general health imo. Shoes mask much of what the horses hooves are trying to tell us as well as in many cases causing the hooves to become weaker from lack of the exercize (flexing, stimulation and correct foot fall/landing) over time.

Just my non professional opinion.

 

[Miss L Toe]

Can i ask a few questions?

I really wanted my cob to be barefoot (well without shoes) i have a regular farrier. She is recently broken in and has been going since June. We do road work up to 3 x per week and she copes fine on tarmac but gets stumbly on rocky/stony surfaces, something we cannot avoid she gets her feet trimmed every 10 weeks (thereabouts) and recently she has been worse on the hard stony ground. My farrier came and mentioned she could do with front shoes as there wearing thin?! (the hoofs i think he meant) before she gets any worse.

She out 24/7 and has a small feed of happy hoof and sugar beet once per day.

I take it from reading posts that diet has ALOT to do with it, so is it worth getting the shoes on for now or start the diet and hold off from the shoes?!

Ideas please!

The trouble with shoeing is that it is a backward step in many ways, so maybe you could consider trying boots, the cavallos are the cheapest around
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CAVALLO-SIMPLE-HORSE-HOOF-BOOTS-GEL-PADS-AND-WRAPS-/110760981063?
also I would feed more non mollassed fibre, and include a hoof oriented supplement:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PRO-HOOF-...r_Equipment&hash=item415c6b4240#ht_1589wt_698
The diet should be fibre based, and we know a lot of horse struggle with grass, but in you case it seems to be insufficient growth, is she getting regular exercise on tarmac? I think you should try to get her out four times a week for 40 mins as a minimum.
Make sure her toes are not getting long, as this will cause stumbling, your farrier should advise if she is needing more frequent trimming.
I am sure she will improve if she is shod, but it means you will not have a barefoot horse.
You could lead her up the rocky bits and ride on the smooth bits.
If you inspect her feet daily, once before and once after riding, you will be able to "read" how they are doing, it takes time, but have a look at Rockley farm where loads on pics are available, good and bad.

 

[Clava]

Barefoot to me means a striving to get a horse and it's hooves strong enough to work hard. Using unshod to me means shoes are the norm for horses so moves the emphasis to barefoot being unusual rather than how horses are meant to be.

My personal belief is the barefoot movement has exposed problems with how some horses are managed in the longer term. It challenges the owner and professionals to look at problems the horse has and may have developed and then strive to improve all aspects of management so the horse can grow stronger healthier hooves and in many cases (though of course not all) improve problems.
I have come to believe that hooves are a window to the horses general health as well so working to get hooves healthy also helps the horses general health imo. Shoes mask much of what the horses hooves are trying to tell us as well as in many cases causing the hooves to become weaker from lack of the exercize (flexing, stimulation and correct foot fall/landing) over time.

Just my non professional opinion.

This I totally agree with.

 

[Janah]

Thank you to those that answered my queries.

At present my boy is not in work, only the odd session in the arena. You have given me food for thought.

Jane