Going in an outline then snatching....

On the subject of bit L was worse in a loose ring French link. I changed to an eggbut lozenge which improved things then I changed to a demi anky which was much better.
 
He's only four, young horses do these things. Just ride him correctly, don't take any crap (snatching at the rein is NOT allowed!) and give him time to figure it out and get some muscles/balance/maturity. I doubt that changing the bit will have a really significant effect; changing the riding might.
 
*sprinkles* said:
My horse used to do this. It's very annoying. I changed his bit from a French link to something with more of a lozenge and the behaviour pretty much disappeared so perhaps he's simply not comfortable with the bit you're using? I also worked on engaging my core muscles when he went to do it so that he was unable to yank me forward.
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He is/has always had a lozenge... I'm not a fan of 'French links'.

Tnavas said:
How old is this horse? I picked up 4yrs from somewhere but I'm not sure whether it was QB or someone else.
t'was me, he is four

If 4 then I would be looking regularly for caps on teeth. Have wolf teeth been removed? Another consideration is bone spurs on the bars.

actually could be this as he has become more nibbley with his lead rope etc of late, which is how he behaved last time his caps were being shed.

Next would be getting the poll checked by chiro - if the poll is out staying in any outline is uncomfortable, has he or does he ever pull back when tied up? If so then regular poll checks are crucial.

He has regular checks, last time he did have tension in the poll, but this was due to his haynet (small holed and he was being really 'aggressive' with his eating... Lunging and grabbing). He had tension in his poll and build up of muscles underneath, this was sorted out in march and he has switched to being fed off the ground. When his poll was tense he exhibited emu behaviour, so am pretty sure this isn't the case but she is coming down to do him on the 8th of June anyway so if there is tension he will be sorted. He is done every two months, as I like to be certain that everything is nice and loose and there are no areas that could cause issues.

Saddle fit - young horses change shape all the time so much it's a nightmare trying to keep their saddles right. Something I discovered with my young TB was that at times his saddle would be uncomfortable directly under the riders seat. To check for this ride for 10 mins in walk, trot and canter with nothing under the saddle, then take off and check in the channel directly under the rider - if there is a grease patch or a shiny area then the saddle is making contact when the back is lifted.

Saddle fits nicely, its level, and not pinching, again this is regularly checked, by myself, yo and a saddle fitter and it is adjustable, whenever needed. Infact I even tried a different saddle on him last week as I was considering buying it and he was quick to let me know that although it looked ok on the lunge it didn't feel ok to him! However, I do like that tip... Never heard of that before, good to know.

Schooling wise - I'm concerned that you say you ride him on no contact - it is important to have a contact - the weight and suppleness of the contact is the important key.

I was taught by an ex Spanish Riding School person that you MUST have a contact at all times and that you MUST follow that contact wherever the horse puts its head, the feel must not change - the horse then learns to trust the contact and with trust accept with a still head. If head goes up - riders hands go up maintaining the straight line elbow hand horses mouth - if the head goes down then the hand goes down, if the head tilts the riders hands tilt.

Thank you, this is helpful and will bear that in mind

I agree with the person who said when you give the reins when he pulls down you are rewarding him.

Any chance of seeing a video of him doing this as sometimes its easier to comment when you have seen the problem.
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On some levels I do have a contact... Certainly at the beginning of the ride as he is a bit of a hot thing at the moment, our normal ride goes as follows, ride out (snorting, spooking and jogging) five mins in he starts to relax so we have a warm up trot, then a walk down the hill, we then come to the bridle path, we walk part way, trot then a nice gentle incline for a canter. After this I will generally allow the reins to 'sag' in the sense that he chooses to reach forward seeking a contact. In the past I would just sit still and quiet, doing a few up and down transitions with allowed periods of stretching long and low which I instigated. Now however, he stretches forward, holds for a few strides then just either snatches his nose forward then reaches down into long and low, or he just goes long and low... and im catapulted out of the saddle:o. He is happy to maintain this long and low, still stepping underneath and driving from behind from both walk and trot. To be honest, I've never 'asked' for him to go on the bit/in an outline or whatever you want to call it, I've only focused on getting him to engage and drive from his hindquarters... That's been all I expected, and he does this very well now... It's just that recently this evasion has occurred... It may well be caps shedding as you suggest as he did lose a bit of willingness and focus last December when he shed some caps and I decided to turn him away for the winter... Although I put that partly down to baby brain it may well be his caps are shedding. Edt isn't due until mid july but he is out to the yard mid June for another liveries horse... Will ask him to squeeze Ben in just incase.

Kat said:
On the subject of bit L was worse in a loose ring French link. I changed to an eggbut lozenge which improved things then I changed to a demi anky which was much better.
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Thanks, will have a look into these, although I do thing I'm liking the idea of a Mullen mouth type bit, he seems to fiddle about with the one he's got so much, although he is more than willing to have it in his mouth.
 
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Cortez said:
He's only four, young horses do these things. Just ride him correctly, don't take any crap (snatching at the rein is NOT allowed!) and give him time to figure it out and get some muscles/balance/maturity. I doubt that changing the bit will have a really significant effect; changing the riding might.
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Thank you :). I was worried that the bit was moving around too much but on the other hand he's gone lovely in it until now. Ill be less of a pushover with the snatching :o. And I suspect I need some muscles too! I've really been working on remaining balanced and building my muscles up evenly because of an old injury that niggles, I have now cracked the lower leg and feel a difference in my general daily life not just the riding, so I suppose its just building on that and developing my core strength as well as his, to stop me being yanked out of the saddle like a weed:rolleyes:
 
A mullen mouth would probably help too. L liked a nathe straight bar but we lost all steering!

Tnvas is spot on, and jftd's description of the use of the hand is great too.
 
I'm not sure what you want suggestions for when you don't want the problem identified? AS that's the first step to a solution.
FWIW, watch a top eventer or rider on a youngster, they will have a contact so maybe this is the issue but again, impossible to say without seeing it, so a good instructor is probably the next stage.
 
SusieT said:
I'm not sure what you want suggestions for when you don't want the problem identified? AS that's the first step to a solution.
FWIW, watch a top eventer or rider on a youngster, they will have a contact so maybe this is the issue but again, impossible to say without seeing it, so a good instructor is probably the next stage.
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I have a good instructor on site, its her yard... Up until now most work has been on hacks... I was literally chatting with her last week about wanting a couple of lessons a month with him after I have the county show out of the way.

Well, a lot of people have given a range of suggestions which have all been helpful, and have helped me think about it from the point of view of knowing him. It has helped me see that it may be the bit (but possibly not as he has been fine in it) it may be caps shedding as he was funny last time they did, it may be contact, he may just 'need' more now, he may be taking the pisssss using snatching as his new fun move :rolleyes: A range of suggestions and ideas is always a good thing, and even if you were able to say its because of 'x' what works to fix 'x' for one horse may not work for another, so a range of ideas and suggestions is always a good thing.
 
I just wanted to update this thread incase it was of use to anyone. Recently as many of you will know I went to a local county show. In the run up week to that I switched from a neue Schule lozenge bit to a rugby Pelham for practice. After the show I switched straight back to his normal. Lozenge bit. Since rc show my boy has ridden and schooled fantastically, we are doing a ridden class in two weeks so yesterday we switched back to the RP for a day, just so he is completely used to it. But as they say, a change is as good as a rest, this certainly seems to be the case with Ben, he is schooling more enthusiastically and more relaxed in his bit than he ever has done before.
 
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