Going of my stressy TB post - heres a video for CC please

[cobface]

After yesterdays post, i have decided to put this clip on to see what peoples opinions are and maybe get some helpful CC, i know on this vid i need to shorten my reins a tad - something i have started doing and also i know i am looking down i myself have gotton into a few bad habits since i have had her mare was quite un co-operative in this video at first, quite a bad downward transition from canter to trot you can see her head goes straight up then its a bit of a battle to bring her back to me again. After this she starts to relax again. Throughout the video i am using my legs and asking constantly, we get the outline for a bit then it goes.....this was a not so good day, sometimes she can hold herself all the way but other times she just gets stressy or tries to pull the reins from my hands. You can see from the vid that at times she does put up resistance with her head.
She is such a hard horse to ride, my friend who is a good rider is going to get on her next week for me, see if shes the same. My RI rode her and couldnt get her to do a thing.
Please ignore the chatting!! i don't know how to edit the clip so here it is in its full glory! please watch till the end. Thanks ps sorry it looks a bit grainy on youtube, should be in HD??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl1-bAE5jTY

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

cant see vids at work, will watch when i get home tonight

 

[HollyP]

What is your horse like with just a normal loose noseband? To me it looks like she is really resisiting which is causing her to run and stick her now out.

I'm struggling to find a bit for my mare atm she needs a lot of tongue relief, when i got her the answer was to cram her mouth shut (she sticks her tongue out/over bit etc) but its all because she doesnt like pressure, especially on her tongue.

 

[dessmont]

Lovely pony - looks very similar to the way of going of my TB mare - have faith though!

We have spent so many lessons doing thousands of transitions, initially just walk to trot to walk to trot again and again, even just a stride of walk then pushing up to trot again - it did the trick with Dessa, who just used to love hollowing and looking like a giraffe!

I have a strong left hand which I fix sometimes (Im finally getting out of that habit) and if you can keep her equal in both reins then you can look to improving the bending of the neck and body.

Up until last year Dessa did a fantastic tip from the poll - not so anymore!

I always find with the trot to canter transition that I really have to prepare but not do much - sounds daft I know but to keep everything together thats where the half halts become priceless. My instructor always tells me to "just let it happen" and allow her to go forward to the trot which invariably is always 100x better after a canter. If I get at all tense we get this awful crabby short trot which is terrible - John then sends us back into canter to try again!!

Tips from a fellow TB owner - transitions, circles, keep the legs on (even though it feels like you may break the sound barrier sometimes!!) and have faith that it wont all fall apart!

also that as long as you have good rhythm and impulsion the head and neck will follow.

Good luck with her

 

[Tempi]

You ride really nice and quietly

One thing is that your horse looks very stiff in its hind legs and over its back and almost unlevel at times behind. When did you last have her back/saddle done? The resistance in the mouth and stiff neck IMO is a result of a problem with her back/hind legs - she is basically not moving forwards enough and swinging over her back, once she is doing this i think she will be easier in her mouth. She is also very crooked which again to me indicates a back problem. If you have recently had her looked at i would suggest a second opinion from someone else.

Once all that is sorted then i would start thinking about exercises to do with her.

 

[Weezy]

Thanks for posting the vid

For me I would be urging you to work on getting her to take the contact forward and down, and forgetting about trying to get her into an outline as it isn't correct. She needs to learn to come up over her back and accept your hand before you can ask her work into a shorter contact IMO.

I was quite suprised to see her willingly drop into a lovely long frame when you had *finished* your session, you need to exploit her willingness to do that from walk, into trot, pushing her forward more and getting her to really use her back end. Work on making your elbows more flexible, pick your hands up a little and widen whilst pushing her forwards - she needs to be more forward full stop.

Lots of transitions, lots of bending, changes of directions, sweeping turns, riding on the outside aids, stop head tilting ( ) sit in the middle of her and try to stay there and not lean.

I think she is a super sort who will come right, but you are going to have to go back to basics first to get real results.

Good luck

 

[Allover]

Agree with the other posters, transitions and bending work, try not to have her going round the track too much, lots of circles and movements, give her plenty to think about. Lots of leg and give her more of a contact to go into. I would also say not to move up the paces untill she is happy in the slower ones. Lots of changes of speed within the pace etc. TBs are notoriously quick at getting bored.

She is a very pretty mare!

 

[cobface]

Thank you everyone lots to think about.
Re drop noseband - my other RI suggested this as she was pulling her head down and opening her mouth, i have thought about changing it and my dressage trainer mentioned the nose-band too, will take it off and see what shes like in her cavesson one.

Re back - thought it could be physical, dressage trainer a while back suggested it maybe as she had never come across such a resistant horse, but that was before we had massive improvements with bending, and more excepting of the contact. I have got the back man coming out again to check her over, and due to have saddle checked aswell.

Re being bored - again this is a thought i have had lately, been schooling 3 times per week and hacking has taken a back seat as has jumping. Planning a few varied days coming up, hacking and home made xc tomorrow, road walking, jumping and poss xc schooling next weekend and maybe taking her cubbing soon to.
Although i do have my trainer on wednesday next week.

Weezy - yes when i ride her i notice i do all you mentioned - head tilting and especially leaning - my old RI said it was like i was doing the wall of death :0
She does always stretch right down after we have finished or say half way through session when i let her take a breather - she seems to enjoy this.


My trainer had me using a strong left outside rein contact which seemed to help alot. When i have someone on the ground with me she goes alot better with me being told to try various things with her.
I do think jumping is def more her thing though

 

[cobface]

anyone else?

 

[asterid]

Agree with the other posts. She looks as if she could ride more forwards in trot, but not so she is running on the forehand. If you feel her running circle her. Try 20 metre circles on the centre of arena so she has to work the circle not seek support from the fence.

Try riding her more forward in th trot, but as said so not on forehand. Encourage her to relax her head out and down. Agree with Weezy, asking for an outline is pointless, she has to work from behind, over back and into bridle. It will come. As other have said, plenty of transitions and plenty of circle work, but correct circles. Dont worry about short reins or outline, this will come as a matter of establishing the correct basics.

Nice front action though, think once she is plonked on her behind and really working she will offer a very nice grown up trot (way down line though).

The canter is a bit hurried, unlevel and wobbly. Again, practice makes perfect, the canter will come after the basics are established.

I have a 4 year old TB and am at the exact same stage of training. Mine is an ex racer straight from the track.

By the way, the resistance is probably work resistance not noseband or bit. Just keep asking her to go forward when she starts to evade. But of course, please feel free to change noseband or bit if you feel necessary.

Keep going, she will come good

 

[Baggybreeches]

Agree with pretty much already said, she needs to work from her back end more, have you tried walk pirouettes? I would just ride her forward and open out her stride, don't worry about the outline, you can deal with that once you have her forwards.
A nice rider to watch!

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

ok, i think you know what you want, you just arent sure how much to insist she goes there.

i would change bit and noseband, i know i rave about them but honestly the neue schule team up is fab for getting a consistant contact that goes down and out, and i would go to a loose flash.

in halt, flex her one way, wait for her to soften middle of neck, relax rein, big pats, rinse and repeat both ways a few times, same in walk, then do leg yields with quite a bit of neck flexion, releasing and patting as soon as middle of neck softens, neck drops and jaw chews.

same in trot,dont be afraid to ask a little more firmly, its better to ask once firmly and get a good reaction that you can praise, than to be drawn in to the middle ground of you niggling away and her never really giving you a decent answer that you can tell her was correct. so ask a little more determindly for that inside flexion, hold outside rein and push her to it with both legs, as soon as neck softens, pat inside hand and verbally praise and allow her to stretch down if she wishes. do lots of flexions and counter flexion and leg yields and really be determinded that you will ask nicely but firmly and that she will give you a half decent effort and then you will really praise her.

atm she looks a bit middle finger in air, make me!

canter will be better once trot softer, but work on leg yield in to canter and spiralling the canter in just a bit then out to get ribs softer.

 

[Baggybreeches]

Is the team up the same as the starter bit? I have one of them in Emerald and he is the most beautiful mouthed horses I have ever ridden, he went in that as soon as we got him and otherwise goes in a double for showing or hunting!

 

[Eccles]

OK quick reply. I'm going to go against the grain a bit here. I think she is relatively forward but is blocking a lot in her neck,from her wither. Tempi is right, you are a lovely quiet sympathetic rider. You ride though with your hands wide, open but very low though which is imo blocking her shoulder a bit, hence uneven steps. Pick your hands up and shorten your reins, but be ready to give them. When she tips her nose, pick your inside hand up, and open it out - up and out though rather than low and out. You'll pick her shoulder up too. Also, i think bits and nosebands are blamed way too much. I would get her moving her head and neck more. She needs to know she can move her head and neck either way whichever rein she is on, she needs to be ready for anything! i think this will chill her out and make her step through. From what I see she fixes her neck from just in front of her withers, ask her to move it - i may be wrong, it may be back, or something more sinister, but try to get her to flex her neck a bit. I would start with lots of counter bend, hands higher, leg on, bend her this way and that - not loads just enough to get movement. Then maybe leg yielding, don't block with leading hand though. Unfix her a bit. Turn on the forehand, get her moving away from your leg, she needs to be manourverable. (sp!) You need to be able to move her shoulders (by placing yours where you want to go) and the rest will follow. From what I see she will come through nicely, if you ride her like you expect her loosen up. Might be a bit experimental but give it a go! I know what stressy TBs are like....Good Luck!

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

the team up has curved arms, the starter has much more square arms. i prefer the team up,but have also herd good things about the starter, but no personal experience.

dont like the feeling the verbindend gave me on Bru at all, he hung on it like a dead donkey!

have also tried the tranz and found it very similar to a sprenger.

 

[Eccles]

Just read Prince33Sp4rkle's post (sorry should have read before), I think we are on the same wavelength here....

 

[Baggybreeches]

the team up has curved arms, the starter has much more square arms. i prefer the team up,but have also herd good things about the starter, but no personal experience.

dont like the feeling the verbindend gave me on Bru at all, he hung on it like a dead donkey!

have also tried the tranz and found it very similar to a sprenger.

Sounds like me, you have spent your life savings on expensive bits! BTW my most recent experiment for my big TB (hunter/pointer) was an american gag with a short shank (ebay special £6.99!) makes me feel so much better about the £400 plus worth of NS and Sprenger in my tack room :crazy:

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

lol!!!

star will start hacking in his double over winter so iv been buying and hoarding any ebay bargains i can find since about, um, April!!!! i bought every decent curb i could find in a 4 3/4 or 5 and now have 3 neue schule, 1 sprenger and 3 variations of *bog standard* to try.

i do have a bit of a bit fetish.

 

[cobface]

Thanks for all advice
Will change her noseband and also will look into getting her a neue schule bit. Took her hacking yesterday and she was nice and relaxed, even managed a blast across the field with no bucking!
Hacking again today and jumping tomorrow to add more variety.

 

[Kenzo]

I'd try to do some latral work in walk, flexing the neck, plenty of halts and circles etc, also before your start anything do some gentle neck stretching just to loosen her up good and proper, I'd spend 10 minutes doing this before you do any trot work, then when you do some trot work, I'd slow it down a touch, with plenty of transitions, againg working on circles, work long and low to begin with so your give her the opportunity to work up into a relaxed contact, then push on into a contact, think about working your way up, rather than fixing your arms to bring her down, that is why she's resisting and there is tension there.