Going raw?

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prose

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Recent posts on raw feeding have made me curious--curious enough to buy a bag of Nature's Variety patties. I thought I'd begin feeding the patties for breakfast, and keep to her normal feed for dinner. Then we'll see how she gets on. (I'd switch from the freeze-dried, to regular raw, if we do decide to fully change.)

Is there anything I should be aware of when switching her food to raw (even partially), other than the 4/5 day switchover?
 
Hi Prose - good for you, I think Stella will love it.

When changing over be careful to keep the raw feed well away time wise form any biscuits. The raw moves through the digestive tract much faster and you risk problems with impaction if you feed them too close.

If she likes it I would change over quite quickly and bin the dog food completely after a week or so! Chicken wings would be great addition for her as well for the bone content and they are great as a staple in the diet to control weight gain as they are 80% bone, they give them something to chew and they get exercise eating them. You would probably only need 2 for a meal for her. I don't know about your supermarkets over there but here they come in packs of about 12 and are really cheap. Being from quite young birds the bones in them are not hard and they are a great as the bone part of the diet.

Don't know about the Freeze dried packs but I feed human grade food from the reduced counter at the shop or from my local butcher. Sometimes they get it frozen as I forget to defrost it, they don't seem to mind, but they are thugs.

Basically I don't worry about nutritionally balancing every meal, I aim to feed a bit of offal, mine love sheep’s hearts, but I have to sear liver before they will eat it once a week. Tripe is good and in addition I add a couple of teaspoons of liquidised vegetables to a meal a couple of times a week, liquidising or lightly steaming them makes the nutrient more available to the dog. I like to use spinach and a bit of carrot, plus anything left in the fridge and eggs are really good too. In my diet my two get a bit of everything and probably balance out over a week or even two.

Good Luck and if you need anything PM
 
We are currently on day two of switching our dogs over to a raw diet and so far so good, the dogs are loving it!!! I found a lot of usual info here:

http://www.lurcher.org/llink/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5948&start=0

Only prob we've had is feeding chicken wings to Bes - she'll bolt them down a bit quick and throw them up again so we're having to hold them to make her crunch the bones properly.

I'm quite surprised that they've happily taken to eating the liquidised veg so far too, wasn't sure if they would but mixed in with breakfast it's been easy.
 
Hmmm, my only concern with the chicken wings is that she'll choke on them. She's only 17lbs, and sometimes struggles over larger dog treats (that, coupled with the fact that she is a Grade A gannet/bolter). I've noticed organic chicken feet
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at Whole Foods--claws attached and everything. Are they of any nutritional value? Just seem to be smaller and more chewable, that's all.

Her food now is great--fresh cooked, and consisting of organic turkey breast, various veg, flax etc.--but it's the anal gland issues and the mild spring allergies I'd like to see gone.

Shall be posting with some progress. As for the vegetables, we already give her plenty of those, so I'll continue on as normal.

(On a slightly funny note, the woman at doggie daycare called me last week, all urgent. She has noticed "blood" in Stella's stools on a walk. I had to explain that she had eaten raspberries and strawberries the day before, hence the red blobs. Sure enough, that was the case.)
 
i feed my two raw and you'l start to see the difference soon...glossy coat, whiter teeth
Raw food is so much more natural for dogs but not for all
My whippet used to bolt down chickens wings and i had to hold the end so she could crunch it first now shes learnt to take her time ...3 seconds now to eat one

mine also love fresh rabbit...see if you can find someone who catches them and skin/gut them for you..freeze before feeding to your dog first...the dogs love it
Getting it from butchers can cost up to £3 per rabbit which i will not pay....a friends gets them for me £1 per rabbit

good luck with the switch over to raw
 
How about fresh turkey? It's turkey hunting season in CT in a few weeks, and I'm sure there'll be vendors that you can get it from cheaply.

I think I'll do the Nature's Variety raw patties first, and see how we go. I know it's not the same thing, but I can't tell you the number of times Stella has choked on a too-big piece of rawhide (which we no longer give her), which is why I'm a bit nervy about chicken wings.
 
Mine are total gannets but have to bite chicken wings a few times before swallowing them whole!!! But they do have big mouths, I know its a bit scary but you could hold the end like above or even start her on turkey wings as they are bigger, or chicken legs? My mums little JRT type manages them ok and she is tiny.

If you feel more confident with bigger bones then a small section of lamb ribs would slow her down a bit.

The bone is quite an important part of the diet not only providing a roughage and helping the Anal Gland to empty, but the bone marrow is very nutrient dense as well, so start with muscle meat then build up to the rest. Had a friend who got her cat onto wings and she was one of the most paranoid owners I have met!!!
 
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Had a friend who got her cat onto wings and she was one of the most paranoid owners I have met!!!

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Paranoid? Me
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Not only is Stella small, but she has a squishy head, meaning not a great deal can be crammed into such a small space (Bostons are aptly nicknamed "apple-heads"
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) The lamb ribs sound like a plan, though.

How about goat bones? There's a goat stall at the farmers' market that sells the lot--milk, yoghurt, cheese, meat and bones.

I'm going to start transitioning her today, so I'll let you know how it goes. Do you supplement with anything else, Karyn? For example, glucosamine or fish oils? Or does raw feeding essentially cover all bases?
 
Goat bones are great - Loki gets lots of them - and goat meat
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Don't worry too much about the chick wings - she will probably be fine - just hold onto it the first time she has one. I remember how scared I was that Loki would choke (he was only 3 months old when I started feeding raw/ natural). We did start with lamb bones - ribs I think... then tried chicken wings etc. really helped with his teething - giving him the bones
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Honestly - I reckons she'll do the chicken wing thing fine - but take your time and do what you feel happy with
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Hmmm, my only concern with the chicken wings is that she'll choke on them.

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On advice from a husky breeder - who also has 39 working husky's- we fed our pups raw chicken wings from 3.5 weeks old, not one had a problem....
 
Plus, worrying about size, one of mums Jrt's is only 11 inches and 15lb's and he munches through chicken carcasses as easily as the big dogs
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Goat would be great, we don't get it much in this country, basicaly you find me stalking the shop assistant reducing on the meat counter!!

I get a lot of bones and wings from the local butcher and if you have a good sized freezer you can bargain hunt big time!

The only supplement I would give is kelp tablets, usually in the veg meal, Oil is great plant or fish, cold pressed is the best as its not cooked, again this is good with a veg meal. For my veg meal I liquidise eggs, oil and a small handful of veg and give it with minced beef or lamb, mixed together.

But basically a variety of meats and bones plus a bit of offal fish and a small amount of veg should provide everything they need.

The only cooked I feed is the odd tin of tinned pilchards in tomato sauce, don't know if you can get hold of that, some places stock Mackrell so I alternate.

Sometimes I get fresh fish reduced of course and mine like whitebait mixed with the tinned pilchards. Or salmon heads.

I will also go with what is reduced so they might get 3 days of something like in the wild, but I try to balance over a week or sometimes 2.

Heres some puppies on turkey wings to boost your confidence!

http://members.aol.com/Brushbow/images/photos/pup3.jpg
http://members.aol.com/Brushbow/images/photos/pup4.jpg

Can't find the one of them all around a huge catering sized Turkey carcass, it was great they were all chewing and growling at each other!

Mum was raw fed and threw up for them, she asked for a fruit meal every evening while she was lactating, but after they were weaned at 9 weeks + she didn't want any and she never lost an ounce through this time!
 
Karyn; do you feed the hearts raw? What about tongue? I have a cow in my freezers and am still mulling over how best to feed some of the inside organs. My guys are fed raw meat/bones etc by the way so no changeover issues.
 
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Karyn; do you feed the hearts raw? What about tongue? I have a cow in my freezers and am still mulling over how best to feed some of the inside organs. My guys are fed raw meat/bones etc by the way so no changeover issues.

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Tia, have since been told offal is best fed raw. I've been feeding hearts raw, they seem to love them!
 
No upset stomachs then?

How would you chop a tongue or heart into 4? REALLY not sure I can do it. I think we had this conversation before, didn't we
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Yes most certainly do mine love hearts (Fed whole), technically it is classed as offal but really its just muscle and fat, have not fed tongue mainly as it's not that often available, but it is a muscle so unless they dislike the rough part feed away.

I have manged to get reduced ox tails and they really like that, but it is sometimes quite expensive.

I do have to sear liver a bit on the outside as my cattle dogs are not keen, and they don't like kidney (personally don't blame them). But tripe is right up their street and green tripe they really like.

Just a thought but for oldies and smaller dogs you can take an axe to the raw bones before feeding and break them up a bit, did that with an old girl I had a few years ago and I did the spines on the chicken carcasses too.

Have fed deer bones before but they can be very hard, especially the bigger species and older animals and some beef bones are very hard too, but the knuckles keep them occupied for ages. Basically anything I can get my hands on including the odd not to badly smashed road kill!
 
Thanks for that Karyn. My big Akbash brought home a whole deer leg a few days ago. She appears to have found where the wolves hide their kills and every few days she will come home with some of their fresh kills. Trouble is, she only brings one piece of bodypart home and the 3 other dogs sit there watching her every mouthful. One of them will go and share with her but the others just sit and wait till she wanders off and then they steal it.
 
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I do have to sear liver a bit on the outside as my cattle dogs are not keen, and they don't like kidney (personally don't blame them). But tripe is right up their street and green tripe they really like.

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We used to cook the liver and kidneys but they all eat them raw now, Nero goes wild for them....Uch y Fi regarding the kidneys...stink of pi55!
 
Wow that's brilliant, she's raw feeding herself without any effort, bet the wolves are a bit Piss*ed, but they'd probably think twice before they told a Akbash off!!!

It's interesting that they stash those particular bits for later, so they probably eat a lot of muscle meat and choice offal and stash the rest? It's really hard to find research on what each member of the wolf pack gets to eat, it would be very interesting and to know the teeth condition as well.

Does she manage the leg bones ok or leave them, I know my Aussies find them a little on the hard side and like lamb leg bones they will split the long bones, get out the marrow and leave the rest. Sometimes they do that with the bigger turkey bones too. But both were fed canned or sack crap food before I got them so it maybe that their teeth are not what they would have been if raised raw?

Is she spayed? She might come home with a little more than you expect one day!!!!!!
 
Well she is only 10 months at the moment, so I don't like her straying too far from the farmhouse, but she has definitely been a deterrent to the wolves staying on our farm for too long. They used to camp out in one of our woods for a month at a time, move on for a month and then come back again. Nowadays they tend to only hang around for a day or two. She was nipped by one, a couple of weeks ago mind you, but the bite didn't break the skin thankfully, and I guess it was enough of a fright for them to come up against her, as they have moved off property again.

Clover (Akbash) has amazing teeth and annihilates any bones/meat/etc given to her. Our other puppy, the little one (collie X), is absolutely voracious when eating fresh meat/kills, so I'd imagine that their teeth will be good and healthy like my older dogs teeth. Vet always always comments on how beautiful and white all of my dogs teeth are - although I must admit, I do also always have dry food available on-tap to my dogs.


I wouldn't like to be stuck between these jaws! This was her at 6 months old, she's quite a bit bigger now.

14January2008014-1.jpg


When she brought the deer leg home, the wolves had taken most of the meat and muscles off the quarters. The hoof was still intact and there was still some skin, meat and fur all the way down the pastern. Up by the stifle area and around that joint, there was still a lot of meat and marrow and none of the other leg joints had been touched. This would suggest that they munch quickly on the larger pieces of flesh and save the "leftovers" for a rainy day.

Yes she is spayed, all of them (bar baby puppy) were done last month, thankfully!
 
Must admit I wouldn't argue with those teeth! She looks really good, yes my vets always comment on the teeth, then I have to pick them up off the floor when I tell them what I feed!!!

It's interesting how the wolves seem to know and respect those herder /guarding breeds and I bet those wolves have never seen one before! I am sure that if they had not thought her a threat she might have got a nasy bite! Are the wolves shy around you? Sorry loadsa questions!!!

I thought they might bolt the good bits and bury the bones and tougher stuff for later, just like domestic dogs try and do.

Are you near Yellowstone or Canada, do the wolves predate on stock near you or wild prey? I see in Yellowstone that they have regained the skills to bring down buffalo. I'm sure that ranchers and farmers are not amused but I was really pleased when they were reintroduced, I love seeing these wild animals in their natural environment.

We have a "project" over here that I hate, they promote people walking with wolves and take the pups away at birth to socalise them and I really get upset about that. I don't mind them in packs in captivity, living a largely human free life, but to try and make them into domestic amimals is so sad and unecessary.
 
I'm in Canada. We have Brush wolves and Eastern Grey wolves here and we also have the very occasional Timber Wolf passing through. The farmers HATE them all with a passion! The Brush wolves are by far the worst. My neighbour lost a cow and calf last year, as the wolves attacked whilst she was giving birth. Another neighbour is constantly having sheep attacked and killed. Brush wolves are allowed to be killed by farmers at any time of the year, without the need for a hunting licence. The others are only allowed to be killed during hunting season, or if they are predating on your livestock.

The wolves don't come up to the house anymore, but we were dogged by a giant one for a couple of years. After he stalked and attacked my dogs, we decided enough was enough and bought a shotgun to kill him. We didn't have to in the end as I have a boarder who is a horseback bow hunter and he killed this wolf whilst out riding our trails one day. Life has been so much better since this big beggar has gone. He was really become too big for his boots and when you see those huge jaws about to snap around a shepherd dog, then you have to start thinking that this is not good.

When the big guy was around, I would see him almost every day I rode up in my forest. He was not afraid and would just stand about 10ft from you and watch you ride past. Bit eerie actually. The ones we have now don't do this; I do still see them once in a while, but they tend to slink off the moment they catch a whiff of humans.

Yes I have no doubt that they would have banded together killed a lesser dog. Thankfully my girl is much bigger than them, she is just not grown up enough for me to feel comfortable for her to be meeting them regularly right now. There are quite a lot of Maremmas around here and there are some Akbash so I'd guess that the wolves have actually come into contact with these dogs at some point. All of the Maremmas I know around here are much more violent and aggressive, particularly towards humans, and that was what decided me going for an Akbash instead. Akbash can be unpredictable with humans, but generally their prime target is animal predators. They seem to be more focused on their "proper" job, in my opinion.

The wolves/coyotes we have here now are a bonus to us to be honest. They kill gophers, groundhogs, chipmunks and all of the little critters which make holes/burrows in our hay fields; so they actually are quite valuable to have around. The pack that lives on our property part-time consists of 2 breeding adults, 4 pups from last year, and however many pups they had recently. Although this years pups were again born on our farm a couple of months ago, the adults have definitely moved them off now, probably due to the threat of our big white dog I'd imagine.
 
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