Golden geese

[P3LH]

Observed a new puppy on our walk this morning. A funny coloured chow-chow. Odd pigment around eyes and lips. But very teddy bear Didn’t look real. The owner made pleasantries.

Chatted for a few minutes - and ended with ‘why a chow chow?’

‘Hes a rare colour. Gonna stud him out. He’ll make back what he cost in a few jumps’

The dog is probably 4 months. Asked how he will know he will he good enough. He appeared shocked by this and didn’t seem to grasp what I meant. He then told me the vets checked for ‘both balls’ this time as the ‘other one’ only had one, so they sold him on. Some discussion - it was another young chow, same purpose in mind but didn’t fit the bill.

I don’t get it? I know we’ve spoken about the view that a uterus equals money before, and I don’t get that either. But I just don’t understand why everyone thinks everything should be bred?

I currently have two intact boys. One very old and one very young. Neither have been used. In fact none of my boys have and all have been well bred and in numerically small breeds too.

I know I shouldn’t be shocked anymore - I think the attitude is sadly the norm, but it really got me. This need to breed everything and the disposable attitude/cavalier attitude to breeding.

I also don’t know how you can say you will breed from a four month old? The chap told me there’s three bitches lined up for when he’s a bit older - but how can you say that with a young pup where everything is still at stake? Sure you can flirt with the idea/be keen to take a litter from a young dog, but this is always subject to how things turn out - like with my Pem bitch. Was always keen to take a litter but by the time it should have been time, there were lots of factors which meant she was speyed. Equally with my young dog, he’s about 16 months now and still ever changing. Nobody would be able to say if he was good enough for at least another year - FYI, this is a hypothetical comparison.

This indiscriminate breeding really is going to get us into a bad place.

 

[rabatsa]

My neighbours breed from everything. They were a bit miffed when the vet told them not to breed from one ridgeback when he was treating it for entropian.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Across from my house, a woman got given a staffy pup, now she thinks that because our staffies are well behaved and fantastic that hers would automatically be the same!
Q the male entire staffy called Dexter being an absolute savage to anyone outside their family, it jumps on the 15ft trampoline and near chews everyones face off when they walk past their garden!
They have only gone and bought a bitch puppy now, TO BREED FROM!!!

Its beyond me! It really is

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Oh god, I despair. If I wanted another pup, I’d likely go back to the pups’ breeder (although she said never again!), I wouldn’t dream of breeding from mine, despite their pedigree. A 4 month old can’t have health tests, it’s utterly depressing how some people use and abuse dogs.

 

[Wishfilly]

I suppose in the owner's eyes, breeding for the rare colour is enough? People do it with horses too, obviously. There's at least a few cremello stallions who I don't think would be entire if they were a different colour.

But I do think with dogs there is the bizarre idea that a bitch or a stud who actively has health problems is fine to breed from.

 

[SilverLinings]

If dogs weren't so highly valued (by uneducated/inexperienced people) just for certain unusual colours, and were in fact valued for their health, conformation and temperament then we wouldn't have half the problems we do. It's a shame there isn't some kind of stud dog licensing scheme which requires the dog (and breeding bitches) to be passed as fit and healthy enough to warrant breeding from.

I rather hope the puppy market crashes before the dog in the OP is old enough to breed, so that the owner isn't able to use him as a reliable source of income. I think there are still quite a few people around who think the £2k+ puppy prices for breeds sold to inexperienced homes in the pandemic are going to hold, and they haven't seen the start of the upcoming massive slump in the market as the COL increase bites (and, in some cases, the novice owners loose interest). I don't like to see dogs have little value, but hopefully there will be a drop in people who see dog breeding as a get rich quick scheme, with no interest in the welfare of the dogs involved.

 

[CorvusCorax]

It's a shame there isn't some kind of stud dog licensing scheme which requires the dog (and breeding bitches) to be passed as fit and healthy enough to warrant breeding from.

.

We have it in GSDs, it's called a breed survey/Körung, both my males have been surveyed, think a few German breeds operate similar systems and there are a few other variations in Europe and there is an British version with no courage test which has been running for decades. Could be very easily watered down/adapted for all/other breeds.

 

[P3LH]

We have it in GSDs, it's called a breed survey/Körung, both my males have been surveyed, think a few German breeds operate similar systems and there are a few other variations in Europe and there is an British version with no courage test which has been running for decades. Could be very easily watered down/adapted for all/other breeds.

Something that looks at steady/sane temperaments too. In a number of breeds I’ve met dogs at stud over the years, often from fairly successful breeders too, that I can’t imagine living with not in a kennel set up and therefore struggle to see how their progeny would be any good for…normal life! E.G One successful rough collie studs, years back now, couldn’t be approached by visiting bitch owners as would panic and proceed to throw up everywhere!!!

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

I suppose in the owner's eyes, breeding for the rare colour is enough? People do it with horses too, obviously. There's at least a few cremello stallions who I don't think would be entire if they were a different colour.

But I do think with dogs there is the bizarre idea that a bitch or a stud who actively has health problems is fine to breed from.

Is it Westminster dog show (America) where a blind double Merle collie won some class and was much desired as a stud? Colour is often used in adverts, far more than good health tests, it’s depressing. Saying that, we said we’d never have a liver and white springer again. ?

 

[CorvusCorax]

Something that looks at steady/sane temperaments too. In a number of breeds I’ve met dogs at stud over the years, often from fairly successful breeders too, that I can’t imagine living with not in a kennel set up and therefore struggle to see how their progeny would be any good for…normal life! E.G One successful rough collie studs, years back now, couldn’t be approached by visiting bitch owners as would panic and proceed to throw up everywhere!!!

These surveys involve weighing, measuring, teeth, testicle check by an assessor etc and you're not allowed to string the dog up/bait it, you'd soon find a dodgy temperament.

 

[CorvusCorax]

Is it Westminster dog show (America) where a blind double Merle collie won some class and was much desired as a stud? Colour is often used in adverts, far more than good health tests, it’s depressing. Saying that, we said we’d never have a liver and white springer again. ?

I think it was either sired by/sired a blind and deaf dog. I think it would be difficult get a blind dog around a showring.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

I think it was either sired by/sired a blind and deaf dog. I think it would be difficult get a blind dog around a showring.

Right. I thought it was at the show. Too bonkers, even for America! ?

 

[Clodagh]

People keep saying ‘I’ve got a fox red’ and are most put out when you say ‘oh, lovely, what breed is it? ?.
So yes I think colour is far more important than anything else.
What is it with a horse- temperament, conformation, breed, in that order? May be wrong. If you stuck to that with dog breeding you’d not go far wrong.

eta breed can’t be right, that’d be first!

 

[SilverLinings]

People keep saying ‘I’ve got a fox red’ and are most put out when you say ‘oh, lovely, what breed is it? ?.
So yes I think colour is far more important than anything else.

In the last couple of years I've heard people refer to their labs as 'fox red' when the dog was pretty much any shade of brown- I think a lot of dodgy breeders were very free with the term during the pandemic breeding boom!

 

[Karran]

There was a silver lab stud advertising on Facebook I saw last night. Did have to sit on my hands and ask if a weimaraner had slipped in somewhere

 

[SilverLinings]

There was a silver lab stud advertising on Facebook I saw last night. Did have to sit on my hands and ask if a weimaraner had slipped in somewhere

Don't be ridiculous, of course it's a special-rare type of lab that is only available if you have a spare £3K+ and no understanding of dog breeds/coat colours. Surely you know that? ?

 

[Karran]

Ah yes! ? just as well I didn't ask! Would have been made to look very foolish indeed! ??????‍

 

[SilverLinings]

Ah yes! ? just as well I didn't ask! Would have been made to look very foolish indeed! ??????‍

Indeed, you are clearly not of the calibre required to own such a distinguished dog.*


*If it is actually a dog, and they aren't trying to pass a ferret/cat/sheep off to unsuspecting buyers...

 

[CorvusCorax]

I was very skeptical of 'Panda' coloured shepherds, thinking a collie or Akita had jumped the fence until I an aquaintance bred one.
They have to be DNA tested as part of hip and elbow x-rays and the dog is what it says on the tin.
The sire of the dog was exported to the USA and has thrown very dark grey animals with large white flashes on the chest, so there's obviously some genetic element to it.

The panda dog looks phenomenal by the way!!

 

[SilverLinings]

I was very skeptical of 'Panda' coloured shepherds, thinking a collie or Akita had jumped the fence until I an aquaintance bred one.
They have to be DNA tested as part of hip and elbow x-rays and the dog is what it says on the tin.
The sire of the dog was exported to the USA and has thrown very dark grey animals with large white flashes on the chest, so there's obviously some genetic element to it.

The panda dog looks phenomenal by the way!!

I just googled 'panda shepherd' as it wasn't something I'd heard of, and got quite a mixed bag of images come up- is it the ones with grey in their coat or just any tricolour that has a black eye patch?

 

[blackcob]

I also don’t know how you can say you will breed from a four month old? The chap told me there’s three bitches lined up for when he’s a bit older - but how can you say that with a young pup where everything is still at stake?

One of the top winning dogs in my breed this year didn't win his first ticket until he was 6 years old. Perhaps an extreme example but you cannot possibly know what you've got for certain with a four month old dog. And I can't imagine the lined-up bitches are much quality either, if they're being put to a non standard dog - I thought chow breed standard called for solid colours?

I think all other things being equal it's fine to have a colour preference (I know I do) but colour at the expense of anything else, health or temperament, is batshit. I do think the bottom is dropping out of the market though, anyone who was going to get an insanely-priced 'rare' dog on a whim got one during the pandemic.

 

[blackcob]

Is it Westminster dog show (America) where a blind double Merle collie won some class and was much desired as a stud?

It was Wyndlair Avalanche if you want to lose half an hour to Googling the story. He was never shown (blind, deaf and a non breed standard colour himself) but was bred specifically for and used extensively as a stud dog.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

It was Wyndlair Avalanche if you want to lose half an hour to Googling the story. He was never shown (blind, deaf and a non breed standard colour himself) but was bred specifically for and used extensively as a stud dog.

Batshit! And the breeder’s eulogy for him on Facebook is beyond belief!
‘He was our first puppy born after we got married in 2006, he exhibited all of the virtues we did the breeding for’.

Seriously?!

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Don't be ridiculous, of course it's a special-rare type of lab that is only available if you have a spare £3K+ and no understanding of dog breeds/coat colours. Surely you know that? ?

There is a dog a month or so older than the pups in the house behind us. I thought it was a weim, but weirdly lab-a-like. The owners brought it to meet mine through the fence and told me it’s a silver lab. It’s tiny, despite being a dog, possibly as small as Goose. Apparently it was the runt of the litter. I just smiled and nodded. Who am I to tell them it’s completely the wrong size and colour for a lab? (And has funny coloured eyes-for a lab)

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Panda shepherd. I actually really like this.

 

[Karran]

The panda Shepherd is beautiful!!!

 

[Clodagh]

Panda shepherd. I actually really like this.

Oh yes! I actually really like genetic anomaly type colours.
I think silver labs could be a spontaneous mutation related to chocolate. I’d have one if they actually were Weimeraner colour but they are a sort of pale mud. Very boring.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

Oh yes! I actually really like genetic anomaly type colours.
I think silver labs could be a spontaneous mutation related to chocolate. I’d have one if they actually were Weimeraner colour but they are a sort of pale mud. Very boring.

Hmm, this one has funny coloured (for a lab) eyes. The size is odd-true runt, maybe, but small as, maybe even smaller than Goose. It’s puppy size. Funnily enough, we met a small Great Dane in the woods yesterday, weim colour, also odd coloured eyes. Maybe it was small because it was a bitch. I haven’t met many Danes, to be fair.

 

[SilverLinings]

Hmm, this one has funny coloured (for a lab) eyes. The size is odd-true runt, maybe, but small as, maybe even smaller than Goose. It’s puppy size. Funnily enough, we met a small Great Dane in the woods yesterday, weim colour, also odd coloured eyes. Maybe it was small because it was a bitch. I haven’t met many Danes, to be fair.

I expect over the last couple of years in particular inexperienced buyers have been told all sorts of stories about what breed/type/colour their puppy was when they bought it. I think most inexperienced first-time pet buyers probably didn't ask to see proof of any type of breed registration or parentage, and many were swayed by fashionable breeds, but didn't know enough to spot a cross breed as long as it was roughly the correct size and shape (especially if they chose them as a puppy). I'm sure this has resulted in a lot of lovely pet dogs, but it is wrong if lying was used to make money by claiming a cross-breed was purebred.

Mind you, I expect there were also a few cases where the back-yard breeder didn't know their bitch/dog's breed for sure either, and were just going on what they were told when they bought it!

 

[CorvusCorax]

I just googled 'panda shepherd' as it wasn't something I'd heard of, and got quite a mixed bag of images come up- is it the ones with grey in their coat or just any tricolour that has a black eye patch?

Normal saddle pattern but it's black, white and brown. This one was from a dark grey and a bicolour and much darker than the one CT posted.