golden retriever refuses to move when he sees dogs on lead

[Molly'sMama]

Hey all Just looking for a little bit of advice.
our boy is nearly 2 now, and pretty good in most ways - doesn't pull on the lead, good with people walking past etc.
He was neutered about 3 months ago.. before he was neutered he was quite boisterous with other dogs- did have the odd grumble at other young males but on the whole he is a big wimp- chased when about 7 months by a staffy type so maybe that;s scared him into freezing at all dogs seen?

One of the only issues with him at the moment is if he sees someone walking another dog on the other side of the road... he freezes. just sits and then lies down and refuses to move until they've gone past. he is NOT aggressive/outwardly nervous of them ; always seems happy to greet them as they come past. just not sure how to move on from here; 35kg of muscly dog is too much to pull up! he is v food orientated usually but treats don't usually distract him enough to make him get up and keep walking!
any other questions, i'll do my best to answer!
MM

 

[JillA]

You need to train an incompatible behaviour such as a recall, and train it over and over until it becomes a really well conditioned response to your cue (think answering a ringing phone even if you know it isn't yours lol) If he is food orientated that makes it easier - recall for his favourite treat, but as a reward for coming, not an inducement to break his behaviour.

 

[Bellasophia]

I've come across a few dogs on our walks who do this...when we approach we give a friendly greeting to the owner and very often when the dog realizes mine are harmless it gets up and will come up to have a sniff. If you can get some neutral dogs to be the stooge then I think you can overcome this in fast time.
I wouldn't insist on more than a brief salute and then walk on ...in this way your dog gets the message you want to walk by and not all dogs are there to have a go at him.

 

[87whistle]

The question i ask whay treats do u use and do u use them when they are hungry. I use the command touch. So if i want them to focus on me or they get distracted i use the word touch. But u need decent treats. This works with ny goldie when he being a pain or is your goldie toy mad mine is. as long as it squeaks or a ball. May help to distract him and reward good behaviour.

 

[Dry Rot]

The crouching and staring behaviour is uncertainty. Or the preliminary to possible aggression by either dog. It is dog body language for "I can see you and I am ready for you. Just waiting for you to make the next move". It does not mean your dog is aggressive, just that it is unsure and needs to be ready for what might happen next. It is behaviour I am very used to having trained pointing dogs. Sheepdogs will make that stare (called 'eye') when watching sheep and trying to predict what they will do next. It can be controlled, both in sheepdogs and gundogs, even initiated on command.

I train the command "Leave". The shepherd will call "That'll do!", which means the same thing. The Leave command basically means stop what you are doing and pay attention to me.

Being an old fashioned and cruel trainer, I will have the dog on the lead or check cord to start with, give the sharp command "Leave!" coupled with a jerk on the lead or cord, and smartly march off in the opposite drection. Once the dog is paying attention to me, it will get praised and reassurance. Forget the treats. They won't work.

The "Leave" needs to be taught like any other command and the dog is not trained until you have instant compliance. My young German shepherd will go into attack the 'decoy' but must Leave the instant he is told. That has been trained in since he was a pup as an attack dog that canot be controlled is a liability. The first and most impressive demonstration I saw of the Leave command in action was an RAF police dog sent in to attack a decoy. The dog launched himself at the decoy from several paces, aiming for the padded sleeve. While in mid air, the handler shouted 'Leave" -- and the dog sailed past without continuing the attack! I think that must have been over fifty years ago and I promised myself I would one day train a dog like that. These days I think the police use the command 'Out!' but it is basically the same thing.

OP, you are pack leader. Call the dog off as if you have better things to do and he will follow. He takes his cues from you. If you watch him, he will probably glance back at you for guidance on what to do. If he sees you standing there undecided, he will continue with the stare. In short, take control!

 

[Alec Swan]

Dry Rot; A good post.

OP, when your dog goes 'down', if you were to give him a quick tug on the lead, keep walking and approach the problem from a 'no nonsense' stand point, then he should with luck, follow your example and ignore what seems to currently trouble him. As DR says, crouching at the approach of a perceived threat is either through fear or preparation for an incoming attack, or a combination of both.

Treats or rewards only work when the dog decides that they're of greater interest than the distraction. When the distraction takes precedence, then you can waive a fillet steak under the dog's nose with no effect. It all boils down to whether the dog wants to listen to you, or it doesn't and it's really up to you how you re-establish command.

It's also possible that by neutering your dog and having had his masculinity removed, he's no longer as sure of himself as he was. It's a bit late now to reverse the process!

Alec.

 

[twiggy2]

I agree that re-direction is the best approach with a confident attitude of this is where we are going and at what pace, it may help to work on this with another dog in an open space and start by working at a distance that your dog does not feel the need to 'drop'. then work closer and closer.
An open area gives you space to redirect yourself and your dog both physically and subsequently mentally, by using a known dog you will avoid (at least to start with) another dog making yours more hesitant by only using a calm dog that ignores yours. If at this stage you come across dogs that create when they see yours you just make it harder work to overcome his insecurities.
I turn away and just use the command heel use short sharp cues with the lead avoid at all costs hauling your dog along-resistance in the lead can give dogs the confidence that you are backing them up.
Praise (and if you wish treat) when the dog is focused on you. OP will your dog play tuggy with a toy when other dogs are about? If yes use that it may work better than toys, if not it is another thing to work on as it gives them an outlet for adrenalin that can build up when a dog is stressed/excited, it provides and outlet and you are actively involved-they cannot play tug alone.

 

[Molly'sMama]

thank you for all your responses; really really helpful and I appreciate them very much!!!

He doesn't do it off the lead or in an open area - in fact he loves going up to dogs and playing with them - so that does back up the idea that it is because of uncertainty on the lead. He's still as confident with other boys off the lead as he was preneuter and he did the crouch thing then and now [admittedly worse now but it could be because it's become a habit for him/learnt that it's allowed] would he still be unsure of himself due to that, Alec? He's never really liked the lead and has always been a bit 'backward' -- as a pup we never had problems with him pulling, rather he would freeze and not want to walk, and was scared by cars etc.

He is not really a toy orientated boy, - i had thought of toys like twiggy suggests but then figured that as he loves food so much and even ignores that, like Alec says, as the distraction is much bigger, then toys etc won't work.

DR- when you say ''I will have the dog on the lead or check cord to start with, give the sharp command "Leave!" coupled with a jerk on the lead or cord, and smartly march off in the opposite drection. Once the dog is paying attention to me, it will get praised and reassurance. '' - is that what you mean you do to initially train the generic command Leave?

The display by the GSD sounds amazing- [I went to a guard/security dog display + talk with my young farmers and was hooked but that's another story!]

also should I turn on my heel and make him walk the other way to the incoming dog, or make him go past it/the way we were going?

I've already learnt so much thank you all. Most other bumps we've come across I've managed to sort, or research but this just had me stumped! I generally think of myself as pretty briskly affectionate with my animals; with horses and dogs, I do usually take the leadership position haha, but I guess we all make mistakes/learn as we go

 

[Alec Swan]

It would be difficult, if not impossible to give any clear explanation of the dog's conduct at times of stress and over a forum without witnessing both the dog's AND your actions and reactions. All so often a dog will react to the nuances of a handlers conduct, however subtle the changes may be, and all that anyone can do is attempt at what may be helpful suggestions.

The best that anyone who's only able to read your posts can do, is to say "Well, it 'could be' or 'it sounds like' …….. ". That said, as with horses, if a fearful situation arises then generally, the least helpful course of action is to turn and walk the other way because this simply reinforces that the animal's concerns are valid. Better I believe, to have the dog understand that you will be obeyed, and that's best achieved I suspect, by not overreacting, but by a simple no-nonsense approach and if you're able, by insisting upon eye contact, though with ideas which are already in place, that's easier said than done!

Alec.

 

[Dry Rot]

DR- when you say ''I will have the dog on the lead or check cord to start with, give the sharp command "Leave!" coupled with a jerk on the lead or cord, and smartly march off in the opposite drection. Once the dog is paying attention to me, it will get praised and reassurance. '' - is that what you mean you do to initially train the generic command Leave?

.....also should I turn on my heel and make him walk the other way to the incoming dog, or make him go past it/the way we were going?

Yes, pretty much that. The jerk on the lead should be accompanied by the "Leave!" command, then immediately walk off in the opposite direction. Obviously, that isn't going to work if the other dog is approaching and quite close as now your dog is in retreat which is canine body language for "I am running away". So much in dog training is watching for subtle signals and responding to them. But, yes, a sharp tug and a "Leave" should disengage your dog so that it is at least not in that aggressive stance of staring. Then, if you don't want your dog to interact, just walk on by with another jerk on the lead if your dog looks in the direction of the other. As Alec says, there cannot be any hard and fast rules as it will depend entirely on the situation on hand. You have to read the body language!

My pups do this lying down and staring. It usually happens before they make a play attack on the other and is part of the game. So it is not necessarily a bad thing, but it does no harm to be able to disengage your dog with the "Leave" and it will get you out of many tricky situations.