Good advise needed

Topstripe

Topstripe

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Morning all

I bought a lovely 4 year old 17hh full ID about 6 weeks ago and have been getting to know him, hacking out with a friend and schooling. He is a very lazy soul and a gentle giant and his previous owner (who was a friend) always rode him in spurs. He was overweight and unfit when I got him so slowly been getting him fitter.

Anyway we went to a SJ show last week and he tried a broncho act on me, just once, but put it down to him being at a show and taking in all the atmosphere etc. I calmly worked him in after episode and he went on to do 2 clear rounds in the main ring and was brilliant.

I schooled him on sunday and he did some nice work (trying to get him forward from the leg) and about 5 mins from the end of my session, I started cantering on the right rein and he took off with me down the long side, after a couple of bolting strides he put his head between his legs and bucked (just once), I sat calmly and then gave him a kick to move him out of his bronk and then continued cantering round the arena like it never happened. I cantered on the left rein and then gave him a big pat.

I started riding him on a loose rein with no real questions and then last couple of weeks started to now ask more of him (only to move forward into the bit, nothing too demanding) and am wondering whether this is him saying "i dont want to work like that" and I need to now ride him through it and say "yes you are!" or whether to just back off a bit and go a bit more slowly? Maybe I was pressuring him too much - or am I just being soft?

I am getting conflicting advise on how to solve this problem which we seem to have now got... Any advise on bronching horses would be great and best way to help prevent it happening.
He has had a new saddle fitted about 2 weeks ago. My friend thinks he is now feeling fitter, winter is upon us and he is feeling fresh! I hope its only that and not a new game!
 
Hmmmmm ... has this bucking only started after he got the new saddle? If so, might be worth getting a second opinion on the fit!

Other things might be that he is just trying it on a bit now he now he is fitter and stronger - when he took off down the long side of the school, was it towards the gate/other horses?

Or he could just be feeling a bit fresh - is he getting as much turnout as usual? What are you feeding him?
 
I would have the saddle checked, if he has only started doing this since the new saddle then it could just need tweaking for him. If he has muscle building from the different way of working it could be changing his shape and making everything a little bit uncomfortable and the new saddle may not allow for this. Unfortunately there are some useless saddle fitters out there just as there are some brilliant ones and I would definitely be looking at saddle fit before anything else.
 
You say he is 4, do you know how long he has been broken and what kind of work he has been doing in the past compared with what you are doing now? Also did you get him vetted? I agree that it could be a saddle issue, maybe something is slightly pinching him, but at the same time it could be his workload. He is only 4 and ID's can take a while to mature - I have a 5 year old 16.3, he is very lazy and he will only buck when he is in pain.

We found out that he had OCD in his stifles and after arthroscopy to them both earlier this year on starting him again, there has been no bucking.
 
He has broncked with his previous owner, no bucking, just when he was fresh at a show!

He has just started coming in at night and out through the day - and only fed on hay and a handful of Hi-Fi original morning and night (don't believe in too much hard feed esp on a baby horse!). He took off as he passed the gate hee hee, so cant even put it down to napping to get out of arena!!! Grrrr so annoying!

Yeah I think I will get the back man out to check him over and his saddle fit and see if that might be the cause. His old saddle (stubben) was very tight over his shoulder...his new one (Bates interchangeable GP) seems to fit super esp down his shoulder!

Hacking out this morning with a friend so we shall see what happens then...might just stick to roads tho until I have this sorted out. LOL
 
Yeah he was broken at 3 as he was so big and she has just been schooling, hacking and taking him to SJ shows every few weeks. Qulaified for TB 95cm second rounds and can really jump and enjoys it. But he was quite unfit when I got him believe it or not, he must have been shattered after a show!

I did get him vetted and he passed with flying colours.

Just annoying as he was going so well, I think this is his party piece (as his previous owner had said he can curl his back sometimes when stressed or worried) very very few and far between, so I expected it at a show but not schooling at home!

I do think you are right tho - he is only 4 and I think I will take the pressure off and just try and enjoy him this winter without asking too many questions when schooling, IDs take ages to grow into themselves.

I have been riding 30 years and jumped to Foxhunter on my other IDxTb and AI so know my onions, its just lack of confidence now with having 2 kids that makes me wonder whether I am doing something to caus ethis reaction!
 
Sounds like he's feeling well - and having a bit of a woopie!

I'd be tempted to sit and ignore - but easier said than done, I appreciate.

You could also look to increasing his workload so that he's not quite as fresh and perhaps lunge before riding him in the school?

Have you clipped him?
 
Right I will now put my two penny worth in.

1) He is only 4, a baby still

2) As a baby he has been asked to do a lot, far too much. The previous owner has done shows every few weeks. That is far too much. People are asking far too much of their horses when they are far too young.

I take in horses for rehabilitation, those that have been bought by people that find they are too much for them.

You say "He has broncked with his previous owner" but only at shows. This horse has not been taught good manners as a baby. He knows he can get away with it.

You know he can jump, so he is not going to forget that.Leave him and don't jump him.

I would spend time in just hacking him out, lunging him and doing ground work.

I would never wear spurs on a youngster, they should move off from the leg. Voice commands are also very useful.

Have PM'ed you as if you are anywhere near me I maybe able to help.

In my own sport (Endurance) we are not allowed to compete more than 450km in a year. I do not think that young horses should be allowed to do more than a certain number of shows in their first year.
 
Agree with Paulineh, he seems to have done a lot at a young age, IDs take time to mature. Take it easy for the winter, hack and do a bit of schooling ignoring the bronking if you can!
 
paulineh said:
Right I will now put my two penny worth in.

1) He is only 4, a baby still

2) As a baby he has been asked to do a lot, far too much. The previous owner has done shows every few weeks. That is far too much. People are asking far too much of their horses when they are far too young.

I take in horses for rehabilitation, those that have been bought by people that find they are too much for them.

You say "He has broncked with his previous owner" but only at shows. This horse has not been taught good manners as a baby. He knows he can get away with it.

You know he can jump, so he is not going to forget that.Leave him and don't jump him.

I would spend time in just hacking him out, lunging him and doing ground work.

I would never wear spurs on a youngster, they should move off from the leg. Voice commands are also very useful.

Have PM'ed you as if you are anywhere near me I maybe able to help.

In my own sport (Endurance) we are not allowed to compete more than 450km in a year. I do not think that young horses should be allowed to do more than a certain number of shows in their first year.
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Agree with most of this. He is still a baby, but being expected to behave like an adult. He has done a blinkin lot for his first year in work. I'd keep him working, but do more fun stuff with him - hack out more - you can do all the schooling he needs at that age on a hack. Give him the winter to have fun, then build it up more in the spring. Also he has not been with you long, so has had the stress of changing location thrown in on top. I alsways think you're "riding on borrowed pertrol" for the first month or so when you get a new horse, then they start testing you out... Let him settle a bit more perhaps?
 
I also think 4 is very young for jumping at shows. Many horses don't mature in their skeleton till 6-7. Have a look at this.
http://www.equinestudies.org/ranger_2008/ranger_piece_2008_pdf1.pdf
I also second having saddle and back checked and rechecked if necessary.

One thing that springs to my mind is diet and feet. I know this may sound way off but the sluggishness etc. say sore feet and feeling not 100% to me. I'd have a look at his diet as well. Low sugar high fibre may help his energy levels too.

Btw. I'm not trying to have a go at you. Many people jump youngsters etc. I just think we should think more about this.
 
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Very typical behaviour for a four year old ID! and older for that matter......:o
Don't forget, he is only four and IDs will continue to grow for another year or two yet. I measured my boy at four and he was 17hh - I haven't had the nerve to measure him since and he is eight now! :p

They are a lovely type but occassionally cannot contain themselves, I can school my boy for some time and have him working beautifully and yet he will still squeek and bounce around. I expect him to behave and be mannerly, but he's a horse and sometimes his happiness overflows! :) I wouldn't change him for the world. :p
 
Good idea to get the saddle and back checked. Sounds to me like he's just testing you out. Also, if he's got a bit stronger and fitter maybe he's worked out what he can get away with. My baby just ambled about doing exactly as I wanted for the first few months after backing, then he got stronger and more coordinated and found out he could do little rears and spin round - that's his party piece (more just a whip round now). Sounds to me like you're appraching it right by staying clam and not causing a huge fuss about it, he probably just needs time to settle.

Not sure about the workload, he obviously sounds like he's done a fair bit but if it was all done gently with no major questions asked then sounds find, those young event horses that do the burghley young event horse have to do dressage and jump a decent course at 4. All depends on the horse surely.
 
Firstly, don't panic, could be a number of things....all fixable in good time so don't worry yourself too much.:)

Get your saddle checked along with his back, I know you state it's a new saddle that has been fitted but trust me saddle fitters do it get wrong at times, so he could be telling you he's sore or 'it feels a bit strange mum', please give him the benefit of the doubt and look into it.

Or...welcome to wonderful world of owning a 4yr old :D yaaaaay your going to love it ;) he could just be testing the waters, he's at that age where he's finding out what he can get away with and will have his own ideas about things, if you have the above checked and doubled checked if needs be then just ignore him, push him through, laugh it off and look forward to when he turns 5! :eek::D

Could just be feeling fresh or a bit fitter, the grass has a spurt during October, turning quite a few steady steeds into luney tunes, so it will wear off if its that, you could bob him on a calmer, see if it makes a bit of difference.

You'll get to the bottom of it.
 
Foxy53 said:
Very typical behaviour for a four year old ID! and older for that matter......:o
Don't forget, he is only four and IDs will continue to grow for another year or two yet. I measured my boy at four and he was 17hh - I haven't had the nerve to measure him since and he is eight now! :p

They are a lovely type but occassionally cannot contain themselves, I can school my boy for some time and have him working beautifully and yet he will still squeek and bounce around. I expect him to behave and be mannerly, but he's a horse and sometimes his happiness overflows! :) I wouldn't change him for the world. :p
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yes i was about to say same~~~~typical behaviour at this age. my best best boy who sadly is no longer with us after 20 year and 18 seasons eventing was exactly the same. He was broken in at 3 and was so quiet,easy in fact a bit idle and it wasnt until he was 4-5 that he tried out the boundaries. we did actually turn him away virtually at this stage since i was told these big horses take time to grow and mature and we knew he could jump too!this was great advice and by not getting too concerned about the occasional baby strop i ended up with the most fantastic horse ever. however even as a teenager experienced event horse he still had his little habits##eg putting in the most enormous buck when the bell went to begin his show jumping before jumping effortless clear rounds. And then there was the xc start box!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
You are taking things far to fast for a young and un-fit horse.

He should not be jumped at all and only short schooling sessions of no more than 30 minutes per day.

What you shoud be doing is lots of gentle hacking out and gradually increasing the length of time of the hacks from one hour to three hours per day each and every day.

You can gradually increase the pace when hacking out but no trotting on the roads at this stage. Give him a good 6 months to build up the hacking out and stick with it as this is the best method of getting him both physically and mentally sorted out.

If you want your horse to remain sound then take things nice and slowly and most certainly don't do any jumping or dressage for a good year.
 
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