Good all rounder. Rare as hens teeth?

Mouse19

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 April 2013
Messages
215
Visit site
My friend is looking for a new horse. I’m trying to help her out but I’m not having much luck either.
She wants a really nice allrounder. 15.00-16.3 she’s not worried about a minimum age but I’d say 7 is being sensible - 11 years maximum.
Must be good to hack alone/ in company. On the flat have the ability to go to elementary or above. The main criteria is it must be a confidence giver to jump. She’s jumped a lot in the past but had a bad accident, as long as she trusts the horse she’ll happily jump 1.10.
She has a generous budget for the right horse. But can we find one? No chance.

She has been looking at event horses that have a record at 90 or aren’t going to go to the higher levels. But I now think this is a bad tactic.
The problem is every horse we’ve seen is being sold by a professional. So what they think is ‘easy’ to jump, we’ve not found so easy.
I’ve now decreed we need to alter the search. But where to search? We’ve been scouring horsequest but all the ones we’ve found have been too much for her.
Dealers next? I’m worried that’ll result in the same problem - good producing riders.

Her biggest problem is that although she’s not a numpty and she can ride (in her day she’s competed at medium but she’s realistic that the horse was a schoolmaster) she really gets nervous viewing. Not helped by the first horse we viewed put in a really nasty stop jumping and the owner commented ‘oh he’s not done that in a while’

I know this is a rambling post but I feel so sorry for her.
She’s got one more to view tomorrow but I think that’s too big for her really.
How/ where would people search? Is it the wrong time of year?
 

coss

Well-Known Member
Joined
13 August 2010
Messages
1,184
Location
NE Scotland
Visit site
Is it worth looking down the riding club all rounder category? That way it's less likely to be the failed eventers that have been pushed to far too fast and have therefore failed, you're maybe likely to find something that is less educated but more genuine. That or Pony club horses? Ones that have done interbranch etc and the rider is now off to uni so lack of time forces sale. If she's happy to put in a bit of work and not look for something already competing 1.10 and elementary but just has the scope to go onto do that I'd think your field of horses could open up?
 

Pearlsasinger

Up in the clouds
Joined
20 February 2009
Messages
44,730
Location
W. Yorks
Visit site
It doesn't sound to me as if she is doing enough to weed out unsuitable horses before she gets to the viewing stage. You/she need to read the ads extremely carefully, looking for what has been left out as well as what is put in, although if the ad is written by a pro it won't be so easy to pick apart. Ask *a lot* of questions before arranging a viewing and if something jars, don't arrange to view.
Of course your friend is looking for what a lot of people want, so good ones are snapped up quickly. Perhaps if she doesn't want something that is used to being ridden by a pro, she needs to look for horses whose owner/rider is moving on to something else, possibly becasue the horse can't go any further or because the rider has had a change of circumstances.
 

Mouse19

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 April 2013
Messages
215
Visit site
Is it worth looking down the riding club all rounder category? That way it's less likely to be the failed eventers that have been pushed to far too fast and have therefore failed, you're maybe likely to find something that is less educated but more genuine. That or Pony club horses? Ones that have done interbranch etc and the rider is now off to uni so lack of time forces sale. If she's happy to put in a bit of work and not look for something already competing 1.10 and elementary but just has the scope to go onto do that I'd think your field of horses could open up?
Thanks for your reply :). I’ve looked on the allrounder category on horsequest but have also found a crossover with the eventers on the site. But will keep looking :)
 

Jack110

Active Member
Joined
3 September 2017
Messages
41
Visit site
I bought a 5 years old from a small dealer, didn't want that young but couldn't find anything older. He has been perfect brill traffic, jumps anything very quiet, what I did was get a very confident rider to do everything on him first. 1st hack various show and 1st x country so my nerves wouldn't affect him. Good luck on the hunt.
 

Mouse19

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 April 2013
Messages
215
Visit site
It doesn't sound to me as if she is doing enough to weed out unsuitable horses before she gets to the viewing stage. You/she need to read the ads extremely carefully, looking for what has been left out as well as what is put in, although if the ad is written by a pro it won't be so easy to pick apart. Ask *a lot* of questions before arranging a viewing and if something jars, don't arrange to view.
Of course your friend is looking for what a lot of people want, so good ones are snapped up quickly. Perhaps if she doesn't want something that is used to being ridden by a pro, she needs to look for horses whose owner/rider is moving on to something else, possibly becasue the horse can't go any further or because the rider has had a change of circumstances.
I am doing the weeding out lol.
I’ve been very black and white about her ability. Well pretty much what I’ve said above. Do you think I need to be more explicit?
In my defence it wasn’t my idea to do the eventer route... they’re blooming expensive if nothing else. I know she’s got budget but still.
 

DabDab

Ah mud, splendid
Joined
6 May 2013
Messages
12,572
Visit site
If she's happy training the flatwork in the school then I would look at hunters to try to find something super straightforward to jump.

I have noticed in the last few years that genuinely straightforward jumping horses are getting harder to find in the 'allrounder' market. I had a friend looking for the same thing a couple of years ago - good rider but previous horse couldn't jump so she had become tentative. She looked at so many dead ends, but eventually ended up with a 10yo hunter who had started to get stressed out and take off out hunting but was push button to jump and chilled out completely once in a leisure home again.
 

AdorableAlice

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 October 2011
Messages
13,000
Visit site
I am not surprised you can't find one to be honest. Think about it, this type of horse is the very type that people treasure and don't pass on. I have several of this type, not world beaters but really nice honest types that would never come to the market and were lay down when they left me at big ages.

There might be a few hunters come to market at the end of the season or at the start of the Uni intakes.

Could you friend look at a nicely started 5 year old and make her own horse perhaps.
 

be positive

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 July 2011
Messages
19,396
Visit site
They are hard to find and if she is really nervous trying an unknown horse that makes it even more difficult so I would suggest taking out a wanted ad so you are under far less pressure when you get to viewing, if something is not yet on the market you can weed out the ones that don't suit, get videos sent of those that might and ensure you can view twice so she doesn't feel pressured to jump on the first viewing.

I often go to view with people and we will watch the horse jump properly but may do no more than some flatwork and pop a x pole on the first ride, if it seems right the second viewing is the time to do a bit more but still keeping fences low, it takes time to build trust so why do too much when you really don't know it, I would normally prefer a well produced horse ridden by a competent pro to one from a dealer who may have cut corners or a nervous person who may have let it learn bad habits, a well produced horse may take a bit longer to gel with but if you go back to basics it should soon settle to a new rider.

I would also suggest you look for a pony x or cob x rather than a performance bred horse, they will be more than capable of doing elem with correct training and should be more forgiving with the jumping.
 

buddylove

Well-Known Member
Joined
12 January 2011
Messages
1,757
Location
Shropshire
Visit site
I would echo AA, focus on what is most important. For me this time it is temperament, trainability and being a genuine trier with minimal quirks. I am going for another youngster, specific breed, from a well known breeder, renowned for breeding and bringing on well mannered horses.
 

SusieT

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 September 2009
Messages
5,915
Visit site
you probably want to look at more novice eventers for her - they will have been there and know the ropes much more than a 90 horse
 

Trules

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 April 2012
Messages
204
Visit site
Hi.i would echo what be positive said. Cob type. Cob cross. Really genuine and forgiving type. I know a few in our ruding club that are absolutely flying aroung be90's and doing novice dressage and a good one will be confidence giver and trainable up the levels.
 

Antw23uk

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 October 2012
Messages
4,058
Location
Behind you
Visit site
I think your friend really needs to sit down and answer honestly what her ability is and what she will honestly actually do with the horse. I cant help getting the impression you are looking for a high level horse when you should just be looking for a nice little low level type with a good honest nature! I might be wrong but sounds to me you are aiming for the stars and she is being unrealistic about her ability!
 

Mouse19

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 April 2013
Messages
215
Visit site
I think your friend really needs to sit down and answer honestly what her ability is and what she will honestly actually do with the horse. I cant help getting the impression you are looking for a high level horse when you should just be looking for a nice little low level type with a good honest nature! I might be wrong but sounds to me you are aiming for the stars and she is being unrealistic about her ability!

She is actually a good rider and did her stage 4. But that was 8 or 9 years ago now.
 

be positive

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 July 2011
Messages
19,396
Visit site
She is actually a good rider and did her stage 4. But that was 8 or 9 years ago now.

It is not really relevant how good she is and what qualifications she has if she now gets nervous and has reduced her ambitions she needs a horse to suit her now that she can train on at her own pace not what she was in the past and as I have already said a nice half bred will do all she needs with the right training and obviously decent conformation and movement, so many people overhorse themselves and lose their nerve completely, maybe you are looking for something she doesn't need and are asking the wrong questions/ giving the wrong information when you make contact with the sellers.

As a seller I don't really like speaking to well meaning friends, a professional phoning is fine but over enthusiastic friends or family members frequently give the wrong impression of the would be buyer and means it can be tricky weeding out unsuitable viewers.
 

Antw23uk

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 October 2012
Messages
4,058
Location
Behind you
Visit site
It is not really relevant how good she is and what qualifications she has if she now gets nervous and has reduced her ambitions she needs a horse to suit her now that she can train on at her own pace not what she was in the past and as I have already said a nice half bred will do all she needs with the right training and obviously decent conformation and movement, so many people overhorse themselves and lose their nerve completely, maybe you are looking for something she doesn't need and are asking the wrong questions/ giving the wrong information when you make contact with the sellers.

As a seller I don't really like speaking to well meaning friends, a professional phoning is fine but over enthusiastic friends or family members frequently give the wrong impression of the would be buyer and means it can be tricky weeding out unsuitable viewers.

You put it so much better than me .... What be positive said, lol! ;)
 

Pearlsasinger

Up in the clouds
Joined
20 February 2009
Messages
44,730
Location
W. Yorks
Visit site
It is not really relevant how good she is and what qualifications she has if she now gets nervous and has reduced her ambitions she needs a horse to suit her now that she can train on at her own pace not what she was in the past and as I have already said a nice half bred will do all she needs with the right training and obviously decent conformation and movement, so many people overhorse themselves and lose their nerve completely, maybe you are looking for something she doesn't need and are asking the wrong questions/ giving the wrong information when you make contact with the sellers.

As a seller I don't really like speaking to well meaning friends, a professional phoning is fine but over enthusiastic friends or family members frequently give the wrong impression of the would be buyer and means it can be tricky weeding out unsuitable viewers.

I think that is pretty much what I said, further up the thread! I certainly agree with this.
 

Theocat

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 November 2010
Messages
2,753
Visit site
Agree with changing the parameters to suit her ambition - but if she approaches the purchase as the right "horse for just now", rather than "horse for a lifetime", she'll find it easier. Plenty of horses will get her confidence up (which she needs to do first) and plenty will do the Elementary and jumping (which she needs once she's got her confidence back) but very very few will do both- and they won't be cheap. There was one for sale near me recently, and it was on at about £15k. Focus on a horse that will get her through the first stage - she can always upgrade when she needs to, and a safe horse will always have another good home waiting!
 

ester

Not slacking multitasking
Joined
31 December 2008
Messages
60,197
Location
Cambridge
Visit site
you say she wants a confidence giver to jump but don't say how high/how much jumping she wants to do? It might also depend how good she wants the flatwork to be currently.

also it all depends on budget, but as AA says that is the sort of horse that people generally hold onto, or sell word of mouth. She might be missing out on a few that would be jumping confidence givers with the 11yo age limit, though I can understand that if you plan to keep them a long time.
 

ihatework

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 September 2004
Messages
21,345
Visit site
Yes the really good ones - ie quality, safe, confidence building, talented are as rare as hens teeth. You either make your own with the right raw material or you pay through the nose for a proven one (because they don’t come onto the market often)
 

Blixen Vixen

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 December 2017
Messages
67
Visit site
I’m a little confused to be honest. She wants to compete, it sounds like she’s looking for a nice half bred as opposed to a cobby type. Does she want a really quiet horse as she’s nervous or is she okay with a forward horse who can jump and will take her to a jump. Or is she too nervous for that?
 

sport horse

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 January 2002
Messages
1,908
Visit site
No professional is going to produce a 'good all rounder' - it would take too long and generally people wanting that do not expect to pay the realistic cost of producing a horse for all three disciplines.
What about looking for a show jump produced horse that is not going to make it to the top levels? It will have been travelled plenty, seen the world and know how to jump. Most have pretty good flat work and many move well too.
There are several major show jumping studs that produce their horses and sell them out as they decide how far they will progress. There is one horse around me doing pretty well at dressage with an amateur rider and it came from just such a stud.
 

honetpot

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 July 2010
Messages
9,058
Location
Cambridgeshire
Visit site
I would buy cheaper, and go PC, RC, or just happy hacker.
Both my daughters were competent but nervous riders, and I always bought from people who didn't ride as well as they did but the horses were obedient. This meant when we took it home with correct schooling and work we could improve it without them becoming over horsed.
You friend may want something posh, but it will come at a posh price and have been worked and schooled to look its best, and its often disheartening when it doesn't go as well when you get it home.
 

Bernster

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 August 2011
Messages
8,029
Location
London
Visit site
Aye, I'm with a lot of the above posters in terms of thinking you're prob better looking for the basics and work from there.

Def rare as hens teeth these ones. I think they are out there but need luck timing and a good budget to get them. I'd go for a bit younger with potential and spend the time training it which is good fun and can help build confidence. Or an older model that's ready to move down the grades or maxed out at it's current level (although I'd have concerns about soundness).

Confidence wise I'd be looking at the RC all rounders not sj or events as I tend to assume they are a bit sharper or more experienced rides although I realise there will be lots of exceptions.

Most importantly I'd really want something that's been ridden by a similar level of rider. That will show you what they can truly do in your friend's hands.
 

OldieButGoodie

Well-Known Member
Joined
16 August 2017
Messages
165
Visit site
"I bought a 5 years old from a small dealer, didn't want that young but couldn't find anything older. He has been perfect brill traffic, jumps anything very quiet, what I did was get a very confident rider to do everything on him first. 1st hack various show and 1st x country so my nerves wouldn't affect him. Good luck on the hunt."

I did the same as this ^^ poster - bought an ISH from a local dealer who was 15.2 5 years old, green but a good stamp, VERY nice natured and trainable. Had hunted so was pretty good at XC (I didn't buy him for that I hasten to add but my last sharer took him to a XC clinic and he was simply amazing at it). I had totally lost my confidence but found it again with this horse. Took me a few years but I'm now out competing at RC dressage and recently started Le Trec arena events. I've also taken him showing - with good results - considering I didn't think we would stand a chance of being placed. Haven't jumped much (too nervous) but he's honest and has a nice jump in him (sharer used to jump him and again he was fabulous). Oh he grew a bit - he's 16.1hh now! He is definitely what I'd call an allrounder and I wouldn't sell him for the world. So I would echo the advice of the other replies - try to get a 5 year old cob x (mine is more ID than TB and is white book so nothing special on paper). He came from Ireland - the dealer bought him from the sales, had him a week and then I bought him. He didn't look anything to write home about, he didn't stand out from the crowd and he was quiet and withdrawn but once I got him home I realised how good his temperament and personality actually is. I would have thought this was a one off but the reason I went to this particular dealer is that a lady on my yard bought a 5yo IDx from the dealer and this horse was really lovely.
 

Batgirl

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 February 2011
Messages
3,190
Location
Yaaaarkshire
Visit site
16'3 on my yard - all that you describe (6 rather than 7 though) we can get anyone interested - I'd snap him up if I was looking! Although with a professional her 13 year old daughter is jumping him and he's a lovely sort.
 
Top