honeymum
Well-Known Member
The miners strike was under Margaret Thatcher, but the miners themselves were LABOUR supporters is what was meant.
GOOD BYE TONY BLIAR
- Thread starter clipertyplop
- Start date
Pasha
Well-Known Member
No I mean when all the bin men etc went on strike and there was rubbished piled in the streets etc - total chaos!
Sooty
Well-Known Member
That was under a Labour government.
airedale
Well-Known Member
the strikers are union members
union members are generically labour and left wing
irrespective of which strike you are talking about
and it's not down to new labore that there aren't any horrible strikes - it's down to the Tories who sorted out the unions and stopped them holding the country to ransom by their unreasonable actions.
my family were miners and we now have no mining industry left - that is economic forces and nothing to do with the breaking of the union stranglehold by maggie. Its down to the eastern europe production of cheap coal compared with our high labour charges
e.g. building rates in this country £200 per day per builder.
building rates in France for a qualified Artisan - 70 euros per day
doiuble glazed window here - just the glass for a small window - £94
almost same sized window in france - 35 euros
This is rip off britain and it has gotten a LOT LOT LOT worse under B-liar and Gorgon (lets take away peoples pensions) Brown
union members are generically labour and left wing
irrespective of which strike you are talking about
and it's not down to new labore that there aren't any horrible strikes - it's down to the Tories who sorted out the unions and stopped them holding the country to ransom by their unreasonable actions.
my family were miners and we now have no mining industry left - that is economic forces and nothing to do with the breaking of the union stranglehold by maggie. Its down to the eastern europe production of cheap coal compared with our high labour charges
e.g. building rates in this country £200 per day per builder.
building rates in France for a qualified Artisan - 70 euros per day
doiuble glazed window here - just the glass for a small window - £94
almost same sized window in france - 35 euros
This is rip off britain and it has gotten a LOT LOT LOT worse under B-liar and Gorgon (lets take away peoples pensions) Brown
JM07
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
put the flags out finally announcing his resignation hoorayyyy
[/ QUOTE ]
INDEED!!!!!
put the flags out finally announcing his resignation hoorayyyy
[/ QUOTE ]
INDEED!!!!!
Folara
Well-Known Member
Thank god the tw*t is going. As for Brown ...... he surely cant remain in power for long?
As for who to vote in next, I say lets all go out and vote for one of the weird parties (used to be monster raving loonies!). Then when they get in power they wont have a clue of how to do anything and make some really radical changes and not follow the 'rules', cos they wont know them and who knows they could even do a MUCH BETTER JOB!!!!
Just a musing thought lol.
As for who to vote in next, I say lets all go out and vote for one of the weird parties (used to be monster raving loonies!). Then when they get in power they wont have a clue of how to do anything and make some really radical changes and not follow the 'rules', cos they wont know them and who knows they could even do a MUCH BETTER JOB!!!!
Just a musing thought lol.
Folara
Well-Known Member
Oh and has anyone else noticed the title says TONY B LIAR. C'mon admit that was a purposefully typo!!
AlisonG
Active Member
[ QUOTE ]
and if you try and discipline your kids or protect your property you are put in jail or court or both and the criminal gets 'compensation'
crazy country and crazy system
I'm staying here until the result of the next general election - if labour get in again I'm leaving this country and going to NZ.
[/ QUOTE ]
Because NZ doesn't have a labour government... oh hang on yes it does!
and if you try and discipline your kids or protect your property you are put in jail or court or both and the criminal gets 'compensation'
crazy country and crazy system
I'm staying here until the result of the next general election - if labour get in again I'm leaving this country and going to NZ.
[/ QUOTE ]
Because NZ doesn't have a labour government... oh hang on yes it does!
conniegirl
Well-Known Member
Alison at least thier labour government isnt screwing the country into the ground!
airedale
Well-Known Member
it might well do - and I know that - but it still is a country with a Police force (a lot of them ex-UK coppers that have left to do real police work instead of paperwork); manners; civility; school discipline; and tbh - a lot more sheep than people (and I prefer animals to people anyway mainly - so 30 million sheep and a good few horses and only 3 million people is a lot better than 60 million people and a gov. trying to push the farming sector to the wall and then concrete over the countryside.
and NZ respects it's farming sector as well ....
plus it still has a sense of 'national pride' which this country lost a LONG time ago.
and NZ respects it's farming sector as well ....
plus it still has a sense of 'national pride' which this country lost a LONG time ago.
AlisonG
Active Member
I was making a bit of a glib point!
Seriously.. I wonder what you have ll done about it though. I'm not suggesting people haven't done anything but you know people complaining and not doing anything to make it better is one of my pet peeves. Clearly I don;t know enough about any of you to make the assumption.... but I'm just gonna throw it into the mix for people to think about.
And before you ask.. yes I do my bit (policies I write have become law...) and no I'm not a Blair fan.
Seriously.. I wonder what you have ll done about it though. I'm not suggesting people haven't done anything but you know people complaining and not doing anything to make it better is one of my pet peeves. Clearly I don;t know enough about any of you to make the assumption.... but I'm just gonna throw it into the mix for people to think about.
And before you ask.. yes I do my bit (policies I write have become law...) and no I'm not a Blair fan.
clipertyplop
Well-Known Member
oh by the way sorry for the bad spelling (BLIAR)
conniegirl
Well-Known Member
Alison ive Protested alot about it, particularly the hunting ban.
protested about alot of other things, sent petitions to the PM (only to have them ignored), joined the NFU, voted for anyone except labour, what else can your ordinary jo bloggs do without breaking the law?
I'm a student so ive joined my student union and they have sent petitions about top up fees to the PM, ive done everything i can to peacefully protest about the state of affairs in the UK and im not willing to break the law as i cant afford to have it on my record.
what else do you suggest we do? the government has basicly ignored everything anyone has said about anything!
protested about alot of other things, sent petitions to the PM (only to have them ignored), joined the NFU, voted for anyone except labour, what else can your ordinary jo bloggs do without breaking the law?
I'm a student so ive joined my student union and they have sent petitions about top up fees to the PM, ive done everything i can to peacefully protest about the state of affairs in the UK and im not willing to break the law as i cant afford to have it on my record.
what else do you suggest we do? the government has basicly ignored everything anyone has said about anything!
airedale
Well-Known Member
personally I have done nothing at national level but I'm involved with a local residents group on the basis that we have a chance of achieving something +ve for our local community and buggerawl chance of changing anything at national level. We all live in our community so trying to make things better, like potholes, local hospital campaign, etc is about the best and most productive use of our time that we can do.
I am aware though that by being a 'local activist' who has made several 'enquiries' under the FOI act to find out what is being 'secreted' by our local council that my 'card is marked' and I'm 'labelled' by our over monitoring government and their lackeys
It is interesting to note that the more paranoid leaders are - e.g. mugabe and stalin - the more opressed, monitored and controlled - their populace are
So as we are the most monitored country in europe - that means that B-liar and Gorgon Brown must be paranoid........
..........now if they hadn't closed so many wards on our hospitals, let alone the hospitals facing closure, there would be sufficient space to lock them up in straightjackets and get them out of Parliament
The Labour cabinet strikes me as very close to "promoted to their level of incompetence"
After all, only B-liar would have taken M. Beckett from DEFRA where she made such a mess that the UK has been fined MILLIONS by the EU for not paying the farmers and PROMOTE her to be the MOST INCOMPETENT Foreign Secretary this country has ever had
ANYONE who thinks new labore are any good - just look at M. Beckett and think hard...............and then vote for D. Cameron at the next election
I am aware though that by being a 'local activist' who has made several 'enquiries' under the FOI act to find out what is being 'secreted' by our local council that my 'card is marked' and I'm 'labelled' by our over monitoring government and their lackeys
It is interesting to note that the more paranoid leaders are - e.g. mugabe and stalin - the more opressed, monitored and controlled - their populace are
So as we are the most monitored country in europe - that means that B-liar and Gorgon Brown must be paranoid........
..........now if they hadn't closed so many wards on our hospitals, let alone the hospitals facing closure, there would be sufficient space to lock them up in straightjackets and get them out of Parliament
The Labour cabinet strikes me as very close to "promoted to their level of incompetence"
After all, only B-liar would have taken M. Beckett from DEFRA where she made such a mess that the UK has been fined MILLIONS by the EU for not paying the farmers and PROMOTE her to be the MOST INCOMPETENT Foreign Secretary this country has ever had
ANYONE who thinks new labore are any good - just look at M. Beckett and think hard...............and then vote for D. Cameron at the next election
AlisonG
Active Member
[ QUOTE ]
Alison ive Protested alot about it, particularly the hunting ban.
protested about alot of other things, sent petitions to the PM (only to have them ignored), joined the NFU, voted for anyone except labour, what else can your ordinary jo bloggs do without breaking the law?
I'm a student so ive joined my student union and they have sent petitions about top up fees to the PM, ive done everything i can to peacefully protest about the state of affairs in the UK and im not willing to break the law as i cant afford to have it on my record.
what else do you suggest we do? the government has basicly ignored everything anyone has said about anything!
[/ QUOTE ]
Stand for something, suggest something different and persuade people to vote for it
Easy!
Alison ive Protested alot about it, particularly the hunting ban.
protested about alot of other things, sent petitions to the PM (only to have them ignored), joined the NFU, voted for anyone except labour, what else can your ordinary jo bloggs do without breaking the law?
I'm a student so ive joined my student union and they have sent petitions about top up fees to the PM, ive done everything i can to peacefully protest about the state of affairs in the UK and im not willing to break the law as i cant afford to have it on my record.
what else do you suggest we do? the government has basicly ignored everything anyone has said about anything!
[/ QUOTE ]
Stand for something, suggest something different and persuade people to vote for it
Easy!
conniegirl
Well-Known Member
unfortunately as a student i dont have the financial backing to do that (unfortunately it costs a hell of alot so its not as free as people think) or the political know how.
Tia
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
have lived under a few more PMs than you have, and in my experience not one of them has done as much to damage the fundamental essence of the UK as Blair has done
[/ QUOTE ]
Hear! Hear!! Sooty.
have lived under a few more PMs than you have, and in my experience not one of them has done as much to damage the fundamental essence of the UK as Blair has done
[/ QUOTE ]
Hear! Hear!! Sooty.
Tia
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Seriously.. I wonder what you have ll done about it though.
[/ QUOTE ]
We left. Immigrated to Canada.
Seriously.. I wonder what you have ll done about it though.
[/ QUOTE ]
We left. Immigrated to Canada.
southgate1975
Well-Known Member
Exactly !
southgate1975
Well-Known Member
This isnt new. In a word, IRA, and the troubles.
mickey
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
will say that i am in fact sad to see him go (waits to be shot down!) the labour government has done more for this country than ANY other party, and i think its a shame so too many people are quick to shoot down a person who served our country well
[/ QUOTE ]
Preparing also to be shot down I wanted to say that I agree with flintus. As a man, I believe Tony Blair is very talented and has worked hard during his term genuinely wanting to do the right thing.
I did not agree with the war in Iraq and I do not agree with it now....but he has acknowledged his mistakes.
One of the things I do not like is that a lot of the very rich in this country are getting richer on the back of a labour governement. This to me is not what a socialist / left wing party should be doing, whilst taxing lower paid people more.
Whatever happens I think people will look back in the future and realise that Tony Blair did a lot of good things for this country.....in time. Right now all anyone wants to do is be negative and critical. They may well eat their words esp if David Cameron (god forbid) ever becomes prime minister.
will say that i am in fact sad to see him go (waits to be shot down!) the labour government has done more for this country than ANY other party, and i think its a shame so too many people are quick to shoot down a person who served our country well
[/ QUOTE ]
Preparing also to be shot down I wanted to say that I agree with flintus. As a man, I believe Tony Blair is very talented and has worked hard during his term genuinely wanting to do the right thing.
I did not agree with the war in Iraq and I do not agree with it now....but he has acknowledged his mistakes.
One of the things I do not like is that a lot of the very rich in this country are getting richer on the back of a labour governement. This to me is not what a socialist / left wing party should be doing, whilst taxing lower paid people more.
Whatever happens I think people will look back in the future and realise that Tony Blair did a lot of good things for this country.....in time. Right now all anyone wants to do is be negative and critical. They may well eat their words esp if David Cameron (god forbid) ever becomes prime minister.
southgate1975
Well-Known Member
That's one way to look at it.
But it's not relevant to the people who fling litter out of cars... to people who ask more money for houses than they're worth, yet buyers still pay....
Are you going to overlook the first Gulf war, the invasion of Kuwait ? Or Serbia ?
Bottom line... I agree that Blair isnt perfect.... but neither wre most other Prime Ministers in the past. And some of the things that have changed in the last 10 years are not his or the governments fault - they have been caused by shifts in society.
But it's not relevant to the people who fling litter out of cars... to people who ask more money for houses than they're worth, yet buyers still pay....
Are you going to overlook the first Gulf war, the invasion of Kuwait ? Or Serbia ?
Bottom line... I agree that Blair isnt perfect.... but neither wre most other Prime Ministers in the past. And some of the things that have changed in the last 10 years are not his or the governments fault - they have been caused by shifts in society.
Tia
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
the invasion of Kuwait
[/ QUOTE ]
Eh? We didn't invade Kuwait LOL!! We went to help them.....
the invasion of Kuwait
[/ QUOTE ]
Eh? We didn't invade Kuwait LOL!! We went to help them.....
Sooty
Well-Known Member
Did we invade Kuwait or Serbia? I must be slipping! As a society, we have been encouraged to adopt more and more American standards, to the degree that my 75 year old American aunt has expressed astonishment at the similarity between the two countries nowadays. Anything tradiitonally British has become an embarrassment as far as our glorious leader is concerned. No PM is perfect, but few are as duplicitous as this one - from the word go, a public school educated Oxford trained lawyer was always going to be slippery if he was able to pass himself off as a Labour man! I have no time for Call Me Dave either, who has built his image in that of a young TB. I despair...
tremorfa
Well-Known Member
He will go down in History as the man who sold us down the river, lost our self respect and leaves us totally demoralised as a nation. I am fiercely proud of being British, I still stand for the National Anthem(either English or Welsh!) and I could cry at what that B*****d has done to my country.
Christmas_Kate
Well-Known Member
I don't think Labour made SUCH a cock up. When you loook at things from a simplistic point of view, labour have done a fair amount for our country.
IMO Conservative are mainly for buisnesses and the rich. Labour have done alot for poverty, for needy families for education and for health. yes, you do seem to get taxed more the further on in life you get, but who can say it wouldnt be the same under conservative?
Yep, Labour banned hunting, but hunting still goes on. It's not the disaster for the countryside we originally feared it would be. IMO it was done in the best possible way, a complete pi** take of the antis
.
Yes labour allied up with Bush and sent our men out to fight. But England was also at threat of terrorism, and many Britih were killed in the twin towers. What should we do? turn the other cheek? say 'well, we're okay...." ? men who join the army know what life they're gettig into, so at the end of the day if they're not prepared to fight for the safety of our country and others then they should find another career.
Conservative made some humdinger cock ups... CSA... WTF was that??
So have Labour, they've made a complete mess of some things (ie tax credits), but IMO have done far more for this country than we could have realisticaly hoped for. I cannot find one thing which conservative did for the people of this country which has had a positive effect.
Personally, i think we'd be better not voting for anyone. Let the people of this country vote for what they want, when they want it and how. IMO Parliament is ancient and has no place in the modern world. How can a bunch of toffy nosed chelea tractor owning people say what is right for us, the general public and the ones who have to live in the real world and use the NHS and state schools?
IMO Conservative are mainly for buisnesses and the rich. Labour have done alot for poverty, for needy families for education and for health. yes, you do seem to get taxed more the further on in life you get, but who can say it wouldnt be the same under conservative?
Yep, Labour banned hunting, but hunting still goes on. It's not the disaster for the countryside we originally feared it would be. IMO it was done in the best possible way, a complete pi** take of the antis
Yes labour allied up with Bush and sent our men out to fight. But England was also at threat of terrorism, and many Britih were killed in the twin towers. What should we do? turn the other cheek? say 'well, we're okay...." ? men who join the army know what life they're gettig into, so at the end of the day if they're not prepared to fight for the safety of our country and others then they should find another career.
Conservative made some humdinger cock ups... CSA... WTF was that??
So have Labour, they've made a complete mess of some things (ie tax credits), but IMO have done far more for this country than we could have realisticaly hoped for. I cannot find one thing which conservative did for the people of this country which has had a positive effect.
Personally, i think we'd be better not voting for anyone. Let the people of this country vote for what they want, when they want it and how. IMO Parliament is ancient and has no place in the modern world. How can a bunch of toffy nosed chelea tractor owning people say what is right for us, the general public and the ones who have to live in the real world and use the NHS and state schools?
Sooty
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
IMO Parliament is ancient and has no place in the modern world. How can a bunch of toffy nosed chelea tractor owning people say what is right for us, the general public and the ones who have to live in the real world and use the NHS and state schools?
[/ QUOTE ]
Members of the House of Commons are democratically elected. I fail to see how their choice of vehicle affects their ability to do their job... Surely if people choose to educate their children privately and use private health, they are freeing up state services for others? I am far more concerned about the way the hunting act was forced through parliament using a measure designed to be used in times of national crisis than the act istelf. Maybe you cannot remember what Britain was like before the last Tory government came to power, but it was a nightmare in many ways, with endless strikes, galloping inflation and massive unemployment. The reason the economy is in reasonable shape now is because NL have continued with the Tory policies that were in place when they took over.
IMO Parliament is ancient and has no place in the modern world. How can a bunch of toffy nosed chelea tractor owning people say what is right for us, the general public and the ones who have to live in the real world and use the NHS and state schools?
[/ QUOTE ]
Members of the House of Commons are democratically elected. I fail to see how their choice of vehicle affects their ability to do their job... Surely if people choose to educate their children privately and use private health, they are freeing up state services for others? I am far more concerned about the way the hunting act was forced through parliament using a measure designed to be used in times of national crisis than the act istelf. Maybe you cannot remember what Britain was like before the last Tory government came to power, but it was a nightmare in many ways, with endless strikes, galloping inflation and massive unemployment. The reason the economy is in reasonable shape now is because NL have continued with the Tory policies that were in place when they took over.
Christmas_Kate
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
IMO Parliament is ancient and has no place in the modern world. How can a bunch of toffy nosed chelea tractor owning people say what is right for us, the general public and the ones who have to live in the real world and use the NHS and state schools?
[/ QUOTE ]
Members of the House of Commons are democratically elected. I fail to see how their choice of vehicle affects their ability to do their job...
[/ QUOTE ]
It was tongue in cheek
.
But seriously, how can someone who has no idea of the state of the NHS comment on it? Someone who hasnt used it, someone who hasnt had a child go through mainstream state school? That's just my thoughts on the subject. I didnt vote the local elections as TBH I hadnt a friggin clue who any of them were. we were sent a leaflet with their names on, but I didnt recognise any of the names and knew nothing about any of them. Surely if these people want us to vote for them they'd do a better job introducing themselves via local media etc? I'm nt going to vote for someone just because they happen to be a certain party, I vote because of what that person is, what life experience they have, where they live, and who they are, which IMO means alot if we want these people to speak for us.
I do vaguely remember the 80's recession, the strikes, the riots. But i was just a kid then, and the world did look a scary place. I do remeber maggie thatcher's perm... jeez she was a scary woman!
[ QUOTE ]
IMO Parliament is ancient and has no place in the modern world. How can a bunch of toffy nosed chelea tractor owning people say what is right for us, the general public and the ones who have to live in the real world and use the NHS and state schools?
[/ QUOTE ]
Members of the House of Commons are democratically elected. I fail to see how their choice of vehicle affects their ability to do their job...
[/ QUOTE ]
It was tongue in cheek
But seriously, how can someone who has no idea of the state of the NHS comment on it? Someone who hasnt used it, someone who hasnt had a child go through mainstream state school? That's just my thoughts on the subject. I didnt vote the local elections as TBH I hadnt a friggin clue who any of them were. we were sent a leaflet with their names on, but I didnt recognise any of the names and knew nothing about any of them. Surely if these people want us to vote for them they'd do a better job introducing themselves via local media etc? I'm nt going to vote for someone just because they happen to be a certain party, I vote because of what that person is, what life experience they have, where they live, and who they are, which IMO means alot if we want these people to speak for us.
I do vaguely remember the 80's recession, the strikes, the riots. But i was just a kid then, and the world did look a scary place. I do remeber maggie thatcher's perm... jeez she was a scary woman!
polyphonic
Well-Known Member
I have read with interest the comments made by various posters most of whom have valid points on both sides. True, I may be younger than most and my political awareness may have been realised relatively later in life than some others but I am both mature and intelligent enough to know some of our countries political past and to have an educated opinion, for which i will share with you now.
It is naive to think that any government gets everything right all of the time including this one, but equally it is churlish not to recognise its succeses, of which, im my opinion their has been many.
Firstly, Tony Blair should be given credit for his part in the major transformation of the Labour party. He took an outdated, irrelevant, spent force in British politics, grabbed it by the collar and turned it into the election winning machine it is today. He showed that the choice didn't always have to be between big controlling government, nationalisation, redistribution of wealth on the left and the big business is all that matters on the right. He demonstrated that their is a third way. We are a nation of moderate people and he acknowledged, quite rightly, that some of what the previous Conservative administration did in its 18 years was good for the country. He proved that their really is a thing as community and a need for Social justice, but that it cannot be achieved by the people alone. He encouraged self worth, hard work, contributions from business and moderate unions. The result of course is the longest period of economic growth our country has ever enjoyed. He gave independence to the bank of England, the national minimum wage, the right to paid leave, paternity rights, high employment, a REAL chance of lasting peace in Ulster and recognised that the gay community are equal citizens too.
People will always be divided over the issue of Iraq. Opinions will always be strongly held, and rightly too. What I will say is that I truly believe that Tony Blair took the decision after much thought, in good faith and in a firm belief that what he was doing was right for the country. History will judge him as to whether or not it was right. I think History will judge him far more kindly than it does at present and will recognise that today, we lost one of the most formidable politicians, talented orators and true statesman that this country has ever seen. I doubt we will see his like again. I wish him every success, as he wishes us. AS for the stance on gordon Brown, i will judge his character when he comes to power.
It is naive to think that any government gets everything right all of the time including this one, but equally it is churlish not to recognise its succeses, of which, im my opinion their has been many.
Firstly, Tony Blair should be given credit for his part in the major transformation of the Labour party. He took an outdated, irrelevant, spent force in British politics, grabbed it by the collar and turned it into the election winning machine it is today. He showed that the choice didn't always have to be between big controlling government, nationalisation, redistribution of wealth on the left and the big business is all that matters on the right. He demonstrated that their is a third way. We are a nation of moderate people and he acknowledged, quite rightly, that some of what the previous Conservative administration did in its 18 years was good for the country. He proved that their really is a thing as community and a need for Social justice, but that it cannot be achieved by the people alone. He encouraged self worth, hard work, contributions from business and moderate unions. The result of course is the longest period of economic growth our country has ever enjoyed. He gave independence to the bank of England, the national minimum wage, the right to paid leave, paternity rights, high employment, a REAL chance of lasting peace in Ulster and recognised that the gay community are equal citizens too.
People will always be divided over the issue of Iraq. Opinions will always be strongly held, and rightly too. What I will say is that I truly believe that Tony Blair took the decision after much thought, in good faith and in a firm belief that what he was doing was right for the country. History will judge him as to whether or not it was right. I think History will judge him far more kindly than it does at present and will recognise that today, we lost one of the most formidable politicians, talented orators and true statesman that this country has ever seen. I doubt we will see his like again. I wish him every success, as he wishes us. AS for the stance on gordon Brown, i will judge his character when he comes to power.
Christmas_Kate
Well-Known Member
B****y hell Flintus. Who did you steal that speech off of??
(joke)
well said!!
well said!!