Good god. dragon driving again

Pearlsasinger said:
I have bought from one of the 'ethnic minority types' from an ad on there. I have seen this man several times at Holmfirth unwarranted auction market, talking to other 'emt's. He showed me some of his breeding stock, which he is justifiably proud of, mainly Appaloosas and Friesians. They are living on his family farm, with fabulous facilities which I would be lucky to be able to afford if I won the lottery.
Some people are very quick to judge on appearance without actually knowing the people they are judging.
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What you describe I would call romany, and they ARE horsemen and yes, as you state, justifiably proud of what they turn out.
The sort of DD are not Romany, and they just x mare thrown in with y stallion producing in most cases a less than desirable result.
To sell this dross, they advertise it on DD, in many cases holding back on the feed as they KNOW some soft touch will come along and buy it because they feel sorry for it. And so the merry go round continues....
Perhaps its because I have had to deal with the type of seller on DD dumping thier cr*p in my fields, stealing out my tack room, and worst of all drowing their poor animals in the local lake.
THEY are the type selling on DD as a rule. Your guy is the minority being a decent seller
 
joeanne said:
I was trying to not get infarcted for using a bad word!
Its a site for travellers to sell their unwanted wares.
But you only have to look at many of the ads to realise that.
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I did not know it was run by travellers but they have as much right to run an web sie as anyone else ,
However I do not think that only travellers advertise there and even if they did its abit much to tar all the advertisers on the site by the behaviour of some not all travellers break their yearlings and we don't know this yearling belongs to a traveller.
 
I would say its a fair certainty to think its owned by a traveller. No other race breaks an eleven month old colt and then drives it ten miles.
That gives it away.
For me personally I wouldn't buy from DD as the likelyhood of buying a traveller raised animal is very high.
Most romany animals are pure class and as a result command good money, so wouldn't normally end up on DD.
Yes, they have a right to sell their stock as you say......doesn't mean I or anyone else has to buy it and encourage them in their breeding of poor quaility animals though....
 
Romany are an ethnic group you can't call a traveller romany just because he knows horses that is simplistic.
You can't condem all travellers because of the behaviour of some any more than you can condem all racehorse trainers by the way some deal with their castoffs
And we don't know this is a travellers pony.
 
Like I said, the fact he is 11 months old and been driven on a ten mile drive makes it likely.
Romany are a race apart from travellers.
I would buy from a Romany any day, but not a traveller.
Travellers as a group believe themselves to be outside of the law, and this is certainly the case with the ones that were local to us.
Perhaps it IS tarring all with the same brush, but I have yet to meet a "decent" traveller.
Maybe when that happens I can review my thoughts on them, but I don't believe its likely.
 
joeanne said:
What you describe I would call romany, and they ARE horsemen and yes, as you state, justifiably proud of what they turn out.
The sort of DD are not Romany, and they just x mare thrown in with y stallion producing in most cases a less than desirable result.
To sell this dross, they advertise it on DD, in many cases holding back on the feed as they KNOW some soft touch will come along and buy it because they feel sorry for it. And so the merry go round continues....
Perhaps its because I have had to deal with the type of seller on DD dumping thier cr*p in my fields, stealing out my tack room, and worst of all drowing their poor animals in the local lake.
THEY are the type selling on DD as a rule. Your guy is the minority being a decent seller
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No, he's not Romany! Neither is he of travellers extraction, that was my point.
He goes to unwarranted sales, talks to travellers/dodgy dealers types/ dresses in a similar manner to them/ drives his horses and advertises them (amongst other places) on DD.
He is actually a very well-off, professional horseman who has extremely good facilities on his family farm.
I would buy from him any time and recommend that any-one else could do so too.
As far as I am aware, DD is run by a driving family - I have no idea at all about their ethnicity - but as Prince Phillip is a well-known driver, I hardly think that all drivers can be called 'travellers'.

I frequently look at DD and had seen the pony linked to in OP. I, like many, was disgusted and would not dream of buying from that advertiser BUT until the racing industry is stopped from breaking yearlings to ride nothing can be done about any-one breaking such young equines. We should all be aware that pulling does not put such a strain on young joints as carrying a weight.
 
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I drive too does that make me a traveller or like prince Phillip thats a thought although I would like to drive like Prince Phillip.
 
Not too far from me there's a field owned by travellers for mares & youngstock. The colts are sold at weaning, the fillies tend to stay till 3. Not seen any being ridden or driven yet & people who've lived here longer haven't either. I have far more respect for them & their standards of care than I do for many private owners I've met over the years. Theirs do command a reasonable price too, certainly not a sympathy vote. Not all may be like that but I don't agree with tarring all travellers. And whilst I'm not a fan of tethering I would prefer mine tethered correctly over being fully stabled with an hours individual turnout in a tiny paddock like some non travellers keep their horses.
 
Just horrid to see and there isn't a lot we can do.

People rightly say we buy out of pitty we line the pockets of those selling and then the circle of breeding, badly breaking and selling continues.

It has been going on for years and years, they do things their way - whether it be right or wrong. It's the same in different countries - I can't see a poor farmer in some third world country waiting for his donkey to turn 3 or 4 to break when he could easily hitch a cart to it at 2 and it start earning its way.

I don't have any personal experience of Romany travellers... however I have had experience of some new age travellers as I used to know the nephew of one through friends who was related to the 'big' dogs. I have heard some spine tingling stories of what they do to each other, I know that Peterborough has one of the biggest travellers sites in the UK and the police won't step foot on the place as they have no power to do anything. I also know when the dykes around peterborough are drained thousands of pounds worth of tack is pulled from them, even stolen trailers containing horses are found where they have unhitched the trailer and pushed it in the dyke.

Any government legislations against the treatment of the horses would be thoroughly ignored and spat on. The websites are only interested in the adverts from a money point of view. Even if a website was set up that vetted adverts before placing on the site, what would happen to the horses that werent allowed to be advertised, at least by advertising you are giving the horse another shot to a better life.

Its another 'what came first the chicken or the egg' scenarios.. you can't do right from wrong, and just pitty the poor horses involved :(
 
diluteherd said:
Just horrid to see and there isn't a lot we can do.

People rightly say we buy out of pitty we line the pockets of those selling and then the circle of breeding, badly breaking and selling continues.

It has been going on for years and years, they do things their way - whether it be right or wrong. It's the same in different countries - I can't see a poor farmer in some third world country waiting for his donkey to turn 3 or 4 to break when he could easily hitch a cart to it at 2 and it start earning its way.

I don't have any personal experience of Romany travellers... however I have had experience of some new age travellers as I used to know the nephew of one through friends who was related to the 'big' dogs. I have heard some spine tingling stories of what they do to each other, I know that Peterborough has one of the biggest travellers sites in the UK and the police won't step foot on the place as they have no power to do anything. I also know when the dykes around peterborough are drained thousands of pounds worth of tack is pulled from them, even stolen trailers containing horses are found where they have unhitched the trailer and pushed it in the dyke.

Any government legislations against the treatment of the horses would be thoroughly ignored and spat on. The websites are only interested in the adverts from a money point of view. Even if a website was set up that vetted adverts before placing on the site, what would happen to the horses that werent allowed to be advertised, at least by advertising you are giving the horse another shot to a better life.

Its another 'what came first the chicken or the egg' scenarios.. you can't do right from wrong, and just pitty the poor horses involved :(
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Talk about a little bit of knowledge being a dangerous thing !!
 
Everyone is an expert including someone who used to know the nephew of someone through friends ! I just couldn't see the relevance to an ad selling a driving pony...and frankly tales of unhitched trailers containing drowned horses in dykes in Peterborough are just ridiculous.
 
Well having spent nearly ten years as a welfare officer I am qualified to comment IMO.
near every large city these type of areas exist I do think the tales do sometimes grow in the telling but there where no go areas when I was in the field and I don't think it will be any different now.
 
And lets face it, they'll only be selling their "rubbish" on DD, anything half decent and they would sell it within their own extended family. They don't like letting go of anything to non travellers on the whole. I came across a lovely 2 year old coloured trotter type, really nicely put together. They wouldn't sell her for less the 5K!!, clearly wanted to keep her in the "family"
 
bonny said:
Everyone is an expert including someone who used to know the nephew of someone through friends ! I just couldn't see the relevance to an ad selling a driving pony...and frankly tales of unhitched trailers containing drowned horses in dykes in Peterborough are just ridiculous.
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I met him through friends, ok then he was a friend and being the nephew I never said he wasnt involved in any of the goings on.

People were talking about Romany travellers and travellers, I thought I would just say my experience of new age travellers from first hand experience. Therefore moving on to say about how even government legislation would have little standing against these people.

Yes it has happened - Horses pulled from the dykes still in their trailer... drowned. Not nice but it happens, just shows they dont even have the aptitude to put their horses out of their misery in a decent fashion.

Its called a conversation or discussion - Someone starts with a topic and you can expand on said topic. Personally, I get bored of reading the same old thing, poor horse wish I had space/money/time and like to read people experiences, opinions etc on these people and what they do and peoples personal opinion on what they believe could be done.


This could very easily be put in the thread of what annoys me on HHO.. We are not all experts but because we have given an opinion on something apparently we are now classed as such. Its called a forum, that's what happens on forums.
 
diluteherd said:
I met him through friends, ok then he was a friend and being the nephew I never said he wasnt involved in any of the goings on.

People were talking about Romany travellers and travellers, I thought I would just say my experience of new age travellers from first hand experience. Therefore moving on to say about how even government legislation would have little standing against these people.

Yes it has happened - Horses pulled from the dykes still in their trailer... drowned. Not nice but it happens, just shows they dont even have the aptitude to put their horses out of their misery in a decent fashion.

Its called a conversation or discussion - Someone starts with a topic and you can expand on said topic. Personally, I get bored of reading the same old thing, poor horse wish I had space/money/time and like to read people experiences, opinions etc on these people and what they do and peoples personal opinion on what they believe could be done.


This could very easily be put in the thread of what annoys me on HHO.. We are not all experts but because we have given an opinion on something apparently we are now classed as such. Its called a forum, that's what happens on forums.
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There's a big difference between having an opinion, which of course everyone is entitled to and writing down things as if they are facts when they are at best urban myths....
 
I advertised a very well put together show standard HW coloured traditional yearling filly on DD last year and found the person running the site to be pleasant to deal with. I sold my filly to a trainee vet who has since taken her out and got 1st place at her first show a CHAPs Qualifier, so there are quality animals on there.
I certainly don't agree with driving yearlings but I don't think you can tar everyone using the site with the same brush.
I have contacted Preloved a few times regarding animals advertised as not having a passport or being broken at a ridiculous age and on every occasion the adverts have been pulled.
 
I have bought some nice horses from auctions ( & at that the bottom end ones not bloodstock ones) & daughters came from the side of a disused footpath so I certainly wouldn't be one to knock a horse just cos its on dd.
 
I've been reading this with great interest, i've purchased horses from travellers and from private, the 2 times i got stitched up it was from private buyers. There's good and bad horsemanship in all, I keep my 2 horses with a friend of mine who is from a travelling family, they have a stunning gypsy cob. He's part of the family and is looked after a lot better than some non travelling people look after theirs. And no they are not the exception to the rule. I've seen cruelty from both sides regardless of class, age or money.
 
Not condoning anything on that site or the premature working of youngsters but that sure doesn't look like a yearling to me!!!!
 
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