Good manners with the farrier/trimmer?

Oberon

Oberon

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What do you consider to be good manners from the horse, when with a hoof care professional?

and

How do you train a horse to be well mannered for this purpose?
 
Stands quietly, lifts legs when asks does not lead to much on them .
Don't really train it as such except by picking feet out at least twice daily and doing lots of handling with them from foals or when ever I get them .
I don't tolerate any bad manners ever so mine tend to be good with vets and farriers.
 
I would expect my horse to pick his feet up when asked, not fidget, not try and wave his feet around and not rear or try to kick the s**t out of the farrier or handler.

How do you train for this - as you train for everything, slowly and consistantly.

I would also expect my farrier to treat my horse with respect and treat him fairly and kindly, and to help me work with any issues. The more time spent in the beginning the easier the horse will get.
 
I consider good manners a horse who will stand quietly, pick up feet when asked and not lean too much and generally not fidget too much.

Nell is not at this stage yet, but she will be one day, she is simply not used to it, she has come on alot since I have had her, she used to kick out with her backs when I wanted to pick them but she has mostly stopped this now
 
EllenJay said:
I would also expect my farrier to treat my horse with respect and treat him fairly and kindly, and to help me work with any issues. The more time spent in the beginning the easier the horse will get.
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Important point I think - a quiet and kind farrier is a must. I knew of one who would belt the horse with his hammer - I'd have slung him out on his ear.
 
We have one livery whos horse really leans on the farrier, he gets really annoyed by it. Doesn't take much to teach them to pick up nicely.
 
Posie said:
We have one livery whos horse really leans on the farrier, he gets really annoyed by it. Doesn't take much to teach them to pick up nicely.
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So, when you have taught the young horse to pick his hooves up nicely....but he still leans on the farrier - how do you prevent that behaviour?
 
I'd go back to basics and re-teach picking up feet probably with the use of a clicker.
My 3yo was great to pick feet out etc but would get a bit snatchy with her backs if she was either distracted or felt you ought to have finished by now so we went back to the start with the clicker, CT isn't something I usually practise but it seemed like the right way to tackle it as I can give a clear sign of when she's doing the right thing, she actually wants to pick them up and hold them up now and we've only worked on the LF and LH over a couple of sessions.

My personal opinion of horses that lean is that they either have joint problems (or maybe string halt type issues) and have real problems holding the foot up or that they believe thats what they're supposed to do. I know its damned hard work trimming a horse and trying to hold it up at the same time.
 
Oberon said:
So, when you have taught the young horse to pick his hooves up nicely....but he still leans on the farrier - how do you prevent that behaviour?
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put his feet on the stand to trim them that way he doesn't have the chance to lean on anyone. If it's not obvious to him teach him to have them put on the stand (sole uppermost) and then move to the side and leave him standing in that position.
 
The reason that I ask is that poor manners is a common complaint in hoof care professionals, and leaning is a common risk to backs.

You get the horror stories sometimes of horses being smacked with tools and I have to wonder what drives someone who has chosen a career with horses to do such a thing.

I wonder if the criteria for 'good manners' may be different between owner and professional?

I, myself, have a lovely, healthy, 10 y/o draft who is well mannered....and is great for picking hooves out.....but he leans on my poor trimmer and even rests a hind when his front is being trimmed :(

Having experienced this myself - I now know, first hand, how uncomfortable and dangerous this is for the hoof care professional.

Where did I go wrong :p
 
OK, I live in Ireland where things are perhaps a little less "fluffy" than they seem to be in England/UK, but if my farrier wants to give any of my horses which are misbehaving a thump, and that may involve a tool of some description, then he is entitled to do so. I'm not the one underneath half a ton of horse, and it's not my back/foot/hand that's in danger. It is my job to present a mannerly horse to the farrier and he is well within his right to complain, refuse to handle or discipline as he sees fit.
 
I don't agree that smacking helps to teach the horse anything than to be afraid of the farrier.
Surely working with the owner to improve the horses manners is better? That's why I am asking these questions.
 
My comment was based on knowledge of a very bad tempered farrier who gave horses a good deal more than a bit of a slap. If my pony misbehaved when he was being shod (which he doesn't) my farrier has ways of dealing with it that don't involve hitting him hard with a hammer. I'm sorry but that to me such an action is totally unacceptable and I'm not a fluffy bunnies person! And yes I value my farrier and wouldn't expect him to be squashed or pushed about, he gets tea and cake every visit and a bottle of whisky at Christmas!
 
Perhaps for leaning,you could wait until your horse has committed his/her full weight and then let go. A few experiences of finding that humans are not reliable leg rest might do the trick.

My boyfriend is a farrier/trimmer. His biggest bug bear is horses that head butt the handler and gradually push them to the other end of the yard and away from the van/tools/swept area.

Its also worth pointing out that farriers are generally very experienced when it come to dealing with horses. They know all the 'judo' moves and the difference between fear/discomfort and bolshiness!
 
I don't suggest that anyone beat the c**p out of a horse, just that a poke isn't going to cause a mental breakdown and in many cases will solve a problem instantly. Too many horses are dangerously undisciplined nowadays.
 
Yep, agree totally. There are a lot of horses out there that have been allowed to get away with being bad mannered and that makes them dangerous to be around. But if it came down to controlling them by strength & violence none of us would have a prayer competing against half a ton of muscle. As abitodd says - there are sneaky judo moves ;)
 
If one is leaning on me I just gently flex my knees downwards, not to quick so it thinks its going to fall but but just to let it know im not going to take200kgs, the important thing is to have the leg under the horse not to far out to the side. Like all things equine the more you grip the more you pull the more the horse will pull you. Works for me anyway.
 
Abitod - ask your oh for all his bugbears. I'd love to hear them. Perhaps if owners knew what pees farriers off so much, and what they are expected to teach the horse to make it safe for a farrier, then the farriers would be safer:)
 
Oberon said:
Abitod - ask your oh for all his bugbears. I'd love to hear them. Perhaps if owners knew what pees farriers off so much, and what they are expected to teach the horse to make it safe for a farrier, then the farriers would be safer:)
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I want my LIKE button for this :) my farrier is too polite even when La uses him as a crutch :rolleyes:
 
Cortez said:
I don't suggest that anyone beat the c**p out of a horse, just that a poke isn't going to cause a mental breakdown and in many cases will solve a problem instantly. Too many horses are dangerously undisciplined nowadays.
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Agreed. My horses, shamefully, aren't great. They're fine for me but can be fidgets for the farrier, nothing awful just see something and want to move. They wouldn't do it to me as they know what they'd get. My farrier is probably too nice to them tbh. I do tell him to just growl at them or give them a wallop if they deserve it but he doesn't. He's lovely so I give them a slap for him!
 
Hate to brag but my girl is AMAZING, she picks up her feet before you even ask, you have to bend down with a hoof pick and she'll pick her feet up. She can sometimes pull away but that is because of her arthritis and she gets uncomfortable but will pick her foot up straight away again.
She used to be terrible and not pick them up at all but it took months of just practising. :)
 
OH is a farrier and comes home shattered sometimes because of horses leaning. His other bugbear is owners who allow their horses to move around while being shod/trimmed without seeming to even notice far less attempt to make them stand still! A lot of owners still see the farrier as there to take all the risk, though it's not his job to train the horse.
 
I class good manners as standing quietly (not fidgeting all the time!), picking up feet when asked / multiple times easily, no biting, no kicking & no leaning.

If I get a horse leaning on me it get's an elbow in the ribs, I've got bad shoulders & knees & don't appreciate a horse using me as a rest post!

I wasn't around for my horse to be shod the one time & apparently she almost took the farriers head off :eek: ! I couldn't believe it! She stands almost perfectly still usually. My old farrier expected good behaviour & was allowed to discipline if it was him she was leaning on or such (no hitting with tools though!).
 
I think a horse should stand quietly and pick up all four feet without leaning and the owner should be there to oversee this. My two aren't perfect but I do everything I can to make sure they are well mannered, inc working with them before I'll ask a Farrier to. It's not their job to train a horse to pick up its feet.
 
In an ideal world I would agree with the above.

But what about horses like my oldie. He used to behave perfectly for the farrer but for the past 5 years or so, after he turned 30, he leans. He also couldn't put his foot on the stand.

My old farrier had a bad back and I had to change to someone else in the end. I explained the problem to the new one who agreed to do him and had a smaller stand for the oldies.

My warmblood also got stressy for the farrier, even though she is good for us. The farrier has solved this by singing to her (it calms her). I dont see how you can train them to trust, it comes with time. We did try to get strangers to pick up her feet but its just not the same.
 
My daughter has an oldie on loan that is a bit stiff in her back legs... She's brilliant at picking them up and is only trimmed but he does have to work a bit lower so as not to cause her discomfort... When the TB's near side back leg is being shod he can get a bit antsy after a while and move it around a bit which is a pain - but his balance isn't the greatest (he's still young) so we normally put his off side against a wall and he can lean on that and stands a lot easier...

There was an older hw cob on the yard... When his back feet were being done or feathers clipped he didn't lean - he sat on whoever was doing what... I'd have found him pretty hard going...
 
Stands quiete, didn't fidget to the point it makes things difficult. We have some very highly strung foals which our farriers are very calm but firm with and they grow into great ponies with the farrier. Sometimes we find they can be fidgets but we try to ignore them until they stop.
 
Cortez said:
I don't suggest that anyone beat the c**p out of a horse, just that a poke isn't going to cause a mental breakdown and in many cases will solve a problem instantly. Too many horses are dangerously undisciplined nowadays.
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Couldn't agree more.

FWIW, one farrier trimmed my youngsters the other day in the boxes without being held/tied up without a problem while I was outside hanging on to a mare for hot shoeing that did not want to be there. Farrier 2 was patient with her but she was a PITA, not frightened just fidgety; hopefully she'll be better next time but if she isn't she better watch out as she's had loads of 'nice' chances to know what is the correct behaviour and there are no excuses next time.
 
Mine stands quietly and picks feet up etc but he is cheeky, the farrier wears a gilet sometimes with a little toggle thing on elastic on the back. He likes to get it in his teeth, stretch it as far back as possible and then let's go and it whacks farrier! Tbh first time I was laughing too much to tell him off .....
 
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