Goodbye to Hounds

rextherobber said:
No, I d

No, I don't know how many people of that generation won't claim it - do you? If that statistic is available, people are on the radar, and if social services do their job, they'll be picked up? I agree if was a sudden halt, but I do believe far more people were in receipt of it than actually needed it. Surely people of that generation are mostly the children of the 50's and 60's, and have been bought up with the benefit system? I believe there was an increase to the benefits which replaced, or more than replaced, the amount lost by the cold weather payment?
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Universal benefits are straightforward to apply for, eg if still in school, free dental care / prescriptions; old aged, cold weather payments - whatever. The uptake of universal benefits is and always has been better, but nowhere near 100%.
In contrast:
Selective, or means-tested, benefits are exceptionally complicated both to apply for and to administer.
Successive inquiries; from successive UK governments of all complexions; have found the amount of unclaimed benefits by those entitled is considerably greater than the extent of benefits-fraud, whether those unclaimed benefits are universal or selective.
The Treasury has no vested interest in those entitled claiming their entitlements, and prefers benefits to switch to selective.
But the estimated totals of tax fraud wildly exceeds either. I know where I’d be focusing administration.
 
Equi said:
I’ve never hunted (no balls) but I think it will be very sad to loose the whole lot and an entire breed of hound for a few who don’t want to follow the law.

But I also think they need a major rebrand, and they need to weed out the law breakers. The word “hunt” is just triggering to the masses. Team chasing is obviously not the same sport but it’s a similar concept of getting to run about the countryside and jump things.

Rebrand, turn clean and maybe just maybe they can save the sport.
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Oh, you missed out, the Balls are one of the best bits!
 
fredflop said:
They don’t care about people that will loose their livihood.
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how many people will really lose their livlihood? surrounding trades eg vets and farriers seem to have plenty of work. There will be the actual paid hunt staff but how many others?

what are the benefits of the hunt (be it fox or trail) to the wider countryside dweller? I can't see very many and they are far outweighed by the problems.
 
canteron said:
Due to world issues and domestic policy food prices are due to go up and there are rumoured shortages of things like butter and broccoli.

These may force more farmer friendly policies - we hope??
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I know this isn't the argument you are making here, but i just wanted to add that hunting isn't a farmer friendly policy except to farmers who hunt. Lots of tenant farmers are unhappy that the terms of their tenancy require them to allow access to hunting.
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I envision it being more of a course like xc or team chase if they want it to survive. Not just out over any ole land they want/historically went in. Strict governance and plans in place. Any divergence gets it called off. I don’t think they should be near or on the roads, and if there is somewhere to go to they shouldn’t need to. I understand it will mean they can only meet maybe once or twice a year due to the ground conditions but it’s what needs to happen if they want to wear the gear and hear the horn. The public just won’t accept “hunting” any more.

I’m naive on the actual killing side of things, and I imagine there is a large underground pack that goes out, but the full force of the law should be brought on them. At the same time I do think proper channels should be used for animal/vermin control and there is still a place for some dogs (ratters) that the public just don’t see the need for.
 
ycbm said:
I know this isn't the argument you are making here, but i just wanted to add that hunting isn't a farmer friendly policy except to farmers who hunt. Lots of tenant farmers are unhappy that the terms of their tenancy require them to allow access to hunting.
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That is very true. Many farms around here are Duchy.
 
Our local hunt are a pain. They used to only come around our area 2/3 times a season. But with many farmers limiting access they come every couple of weeks and it upsets our horses. They churn up the tracks we use and they trespass over private land. After trespassing they just dispatch the master out with a bunch of flowers to apologise.
I think most hunts now don’t have many paid hunt servants. Many rely on volunteer masters to take days so there will be fewer job losses than people think.
That being said, they are good with fallen stock.
 
Just out of interest, if all hunting including drag hunting is banned, kennels shut down, what will happen about fallen stock that at present is disposed of by the hunt kennels?
 
AlinFaolan said:
Just out of interest, if all hunting including drag hunting is banned, kennels shut down, what will happen about fallen stock that at present is disposed of by the hunt kennels?
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You must arrange for the animal to be collected by an approved transporter and taken for disposal to one of the following:

  • knacker
  • hunt kennel
  • maggot farm
  • incinerator
  • renderer. There are other ways to deal with fallen stock. The hunt do not take it all , at least in this area. There is a knacker company and for horses there are now more crems too.
The above is from the Gov website.
 
For those having to PTS on a tight budget Hunt Kennels are usually the best option, cremation is way out of budget for many. Vets are expensive and the traditional 'knacker man' is a dying breed.

I assume that if hunting is banned we may see a lot more 'hound exercise'. Well that is what I would hope.
For all those years of careful breeding to go to waste would be a travesty.
 
minesadouble said:
For those having to PTS on a tight budget Hunt Kennels are usually the best option, cremation is way out of budget for many. Vets are expensive and the traditional 'knacker man' is a dying breed.

I assume that if hunting is banned we may see a lot more 'hound exercise'. Well that is what I would hope.
For all those years of careful breeding to go to waste would be a travesty.
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I really hope that a ban is a ban, no loopholes this time.
 
Between illegal hunts and masked vigilantes trespassing and intimidating and causing road carnage as they please (on both sides) I'll be glad to see the back of the lot of them, illegal hunts and sabs along with them!

I do hope that bloodhounds don't go down with the sinking ship but I think it would prove simpler to ban the lot than try to specifically word the legislation and risk another loophole being exploited.
 
minesadouble said:
For those having to PTS on a tight budget Hunt Kennels are usually the best option, cremation is way out of budget for many. Vets are expensive and the traditional 'knacker man' is a dying breed.

I assume that if hunting is banned we may see a lot more 'hound exercise'. Well that is what I would hope.
For all those years of careful breeding to go to waste would be a travesty.
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I am not sure of the difference between trail hunting and hound exercise.

To ban everything successfully will depend upon the wording in the legislation. The current govt doesn't give me much confidence in that :D

what is hound exercise? is it just a group of riders and dogs going for a ride?

people who support hunting say their enjoyment is watching hounds working. If they are not hunting a trail, fox or anything else how are they going to be "working" other than just going around the countryside pretty much as a rider and their pet dogs do ATM.

as for PTS then if you keep a horse or any pet you have to budget in PTS. I can't see hunting should be retained just because it gives some owners a cheap way of PTS their horses.
 
AlinFaolan said:
Just out of interest, if all hunting including drag hunting is banned, kennels shut down, what will happen about fallen stock that at present is disposed of by the hunt kennels?
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They will shoot them, a friends boyfriend works in a hunt kennels. Thats what they expect to happen, some could be rehomed in some circumstances…but the majority will be PTS
 
Bobthecob15 said:
They will shoot them, a friends boyfriend works in a hunt kennels. Thats what they expect to happen, some could be rehomed in some circumstances…but the majority will be PTS
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I think you are talking about hounds not fallen stock? I would hope that no hound puppies will be being bred at the moment so numbers start to fall before a full ban comes in. However, I doubt it as hunts seem to think no law applies to them.
 
paddy555 said:
I am not sure of the difference between trail hunting and hound exercise.

To ban everything successfully will depend upon the wording in the legislation. The current govt doesn't give me much confidence in that :D

what is hound exercise? is it just a group of riders and dogs going for a ride?

people who support hunting say their enjoyment is watching hounds working. If they are not hunting a trail, fox or anything else how are they going to be "working" other than just going around the countryside pretty much as a rider and their pet dogs do ATM.

as for PTS then if you keep a horse or any pet you have to budget in PTS. I can't see hunting should be retained just because it gives some owners a cheap way of PTS their horses.
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Hound exercise is just that. Mounted or not.
Mounted hound exercise involves a group of riders out with the hounds for exercise purposes. No trail is laid its just a jolly across the fields in the company of hounds and other like minded riders.

It's usually pretty steady away and a great way to introduce horses and kiddies to hounds.
 
minesadouble said:
Hound exercise is just that. Mounted or not.
Mounted hound exercise involves a group of riders out with the hounds for exercise purposes. No trail is laid its just a jolly across the fields in the company of hounds and other like minded riders.

It's usually pretty steady away and a great way to introduce horses and kiddies to hounds.
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Oh, so you mean " Hound exercise" Round here that pretty much means cub hunting..... Why would you want to introduce kids to a "sport" That will no longer be legal??
 
Bobthecob15 said:
They will shoot them, a friends boyfriend works in a hunt kennels. Thats what they expect to happen, some could be rehomed in some circumstances…but the majority will be PTS
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Ehh? Shoot who? Hunt staff?!
Question is about fallen stock - the sheep found dead in a field (worried or natural causes);
the cow that broke it’s leg but farmer couldn’t stand to wait another day for a vet to provide the necessary certificate for the poor thing to then be transported to an abattoir, and then slaughtered into the food chain - so shot it first - which is what happens -
And exactly where hunts provide invaluable, prompt and humane service; remember, hunt staff also put animals down very quickly, as necessary, hunts do emergency call outs at least as quickly as any vet gets on site.
Of course they charge for it, but far less than other disposal, and vast majority of any carcass is used up.
Going to be significant welfare and hygiene issues, most livestock farmers do not live conveniently near a zoo keeping carnivores.
 
Exasperated said:
Ehh? Shoot who? Hunt staff?!
Question is about fallen stock - the sheep found dead in a field (worried or natural causes);
the cow that broke it’s leg but farmer couldn’t stand to wait another day for a vet to provide the necessary certificate for the poor thing to then be transported to an abattoir, and then slaughtered into the food chain - so shot it first - which is what happens -
And exactly where hunts provide invaluable, prompt and humane service; remember, hunt staff also put animals down very quickly, as necessary, hunts do emergency call outs at least as quickly as any vet gets on site.
Of course they charge for it, but far less than other disposal, and vast majority of any carcass is used up.
Going to be significant welfare and hygiene issues, most livestock farmers do not live conveniently near a zoo keeping carnivores.
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The last 2 hunts I asked to shoot a horse said they don't do it. The one before that, which I was a member of, didn't get back to me for 10 days. Two knacker men I used instead were responsive and did a great job.

ETA you also write as if every area has access to a hunt fallen stock service and they don't. The last fallen stock service I used has a run from Lincolnshire to Cheshire, they are nothing to do with any hunt.
 
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I'm Dun said:
The problem is the bad hunts are numerous and its very public now. The good hunts really messed up. They needed to come out quickly and HARD on the bad hunts, really draw a line between them. They might have had a chance then. Its too late now sadly and tbh having gone from having family who were masters etc and being pro hunting, I'm anti now. The behaviour of some has ruined it for everyone
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I have to agree. My grandad was a master and I'll bet he would have been horrified at what go's on.
 
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